paddling fatigue

VonMeister

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Interesting, I will take your word for it. So those inversion tables are basically snake oil? Ive known some people with bad backs who swore by it.

Do you think that stretches where you arch your back are beneficial for the spine? As a way to counteract all the bending forward and sitting we do in daily life?
The body is designed to bend. Being stiff and sore isn’t indicative of a negative pathology. It’s likely just indicative of getting old and dealing with the aches and pains of life and the degenerative process of living, then dying.

Physiologically inversion tables do nothing. Obviously if someone is convinced they are working there is a placebo benefit. I wouldn’t tell someone to stop what they were doing if it was providing them relief, but I would really try to convince them to adopt a therapy that is more permanent.

I think any thing that pushes the spine or a joint to a position of discomfort is not beneficial at best.
 
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Autoprax

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"benign neural input" signaling a pain response.

I like that.(y)

That is simple and on point.

You could say the same thing occurs when people, who are stressed, lose their temper to benign neural inputs.

You get a misfiring of a fight/flight mobilization response.
 
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Autoprax

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Yes, a misinterpretation of the stimulus triggers the misplaced threat response.

You don't need to create that tension.
 

VonMeister

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Yes, a misinterpretation of the stimulus triggers the misplaced threat response.

You don't need to create that tension.

I remember reading about how fibromyalgia mostly affects women; who have had a traumatic event in their life, and generally are obese. So we have three human traits that are emotion multipliers and lead to non specific pain with absence of any pathology.

I know buck up and walk it off are cliche, but there's truth to it.

When you're in pain the first thing you should do is realize that you're still in one piece and one false move isn't going to send an explosion of internal body tissue in every direction. Knowing that makes it easier to reject all the silly bullshit being sold through YouTube videos that is there to elicit an emotional response from someone who is in a spot that renders them incapable of emotionally dealign with discomfort.

You wouldn't....or shouldn't anyway, make important life choices based on emotions or what you just read on twitter. Why would you do that with your health?
 
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Mr Doof

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Not anymore so than laying down. There's no such thing as spinal decompression or being able to stretch space between vertebra....or any reason that you would want to do so.
Probably true for everyone except for astronauts. They grow in space from expansion of the vertebrae due to lack of gravity.

Disc degeneration is normal and permanent and mean old Mr Gravity is going to eliminate any space you think you created by hanging, laying, or wearing silly chin straps the minute you stand up...or sit in a chair.
And this is why astronauts shrink when they can back to earth.
 

VonMeister

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Probably true for everyone except for astronauts. They grow in space from expansion of the vertebrae due to lack of gravity.



And this is why astronauts shrink when they can back to earth.

OK, I should have added come back to earth. But then we should also mention the back pain astronauts suffer from once back under the control of gravity due to the severe muscle atrophy they suffer from while in a zero gravity environment. Weakness equals pain.
 
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VonMeister

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you seem like a sharp cat VonMeister, what do you think of mitochondrial health?
We know there are things that are good for mitochondrial health, like nutrition, bad, like alcohol or aging, and a lot that may or may not help because the studies have not been done or have been inconclusive. I firmly believe that people or websites that sell supplement stacks designed to boost or improve your mitochondrial health are bullshit and are just expensive urine additives.

Science is amazing and if there's a fountain of youth out there its going to certainly involve mitochondria, but I suspect unless there's a huge discovery by accident while combating cancer or some other genetic disease we won't see it in our lifetimes.
 
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VonMeister

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It better to make yourself strong in ways that JUST make you stronger, then use your stronger body to practice the movement, like paddling, exactly how you are going to need to perform it....which is prone on a surfboard. Strength training and practice should be done concurrently. The benefit of doing it this way is that it is 100% impossible to not develop the strength and cardiovascular adaptation required to avoid fatigue and it happens almost immediately. Doing it any other way is inefficient and just causes confusion.
 
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GromsDad

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Not anymore so than laying down. There's no such thing as spinal decompression or being able to stretch space between vertebra....or any reason that you would want to do so. Disc degeneration is normal and permanent and mean old Mr Gravity is going to eliminate any space you think you created by hanging, laying, or wearing silly chin straps the minute you stand up...or sit in a chair.

True shoulder impingement is a very rare condition but the phrase is used colloquially to describe any pain or tightness associated with full range of motion in the shoulder. Its mostly caused by tendonitis or small tears in the muscle that make up the rotator cuff. Dead hangs don't do anything but allow a person to force a full range of motion into a shoulder that is perceived not to have full range of motion. There's better and longer lasting ways to reduce and eliminate this pain, but not as simple or easy and just settling for short term relief.....but relief is a good thing and if hanging, or any other type of placebo provides short term relief there's no reason not to do it as long as your not causing any damage in the process.

If you're going to do dead hangs make sure you shrug your shoulders up while hanging. This causes the scapula to rotate out of the way and minimizes the chance of doing real damage by pinching the soft tissue between the bones in the area of the shoulder joint (the head of the humerus, the distal end of the collarbone, and the distal end of the scapula). When you shrug your shoulders it rotates the scapulas up and in, towards the middle, pulling the knobby parts of the AC away from the head of the humerus, so that there is more space between them and less chance of "impinging" soft tissue.
Are you really trying to tell me that hanging did nothing for me? Placebo? Come on.........
 

VonMeister

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Are you really trying to tell me that hanging did nothing for me? Placebo? Come on.........
No, I didn't say it did nothing.

I don't know your physical condition now or before you started hanging from a bar but there would be an isometric strength adaptation that would occur if the muscles involved were at a point that hanging provided an amount of stress to drive a strength adaptation.

If you think it cured a non specific shoulder impingement, then yes, placebo. Want proof? You're still doing it.

What do you think it did for you? You weren't very specific. My shoulder hurt so I hung from a bar and now it doesn't hurt is by definition placebo.