Do you come here to entertain us and make us feel superior, or do you actually think you're educating us?
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Covid Skepticism
- Thread starter Ranga
- Start date
insults are reverse kryptonite because he's convinced himself that personal
attacks mean that he is right....but somehow his personal attacks against
others also make him right.....
attacks mean that he is right....but somehow his personal attacks against
others also make him right.....
Q. Viruses are able to cross species now?
A. They have been able to do this for a very long time. I do not understand your blindness to historical fact for someone with your curious mind. This knowledge isn't hidden. A quick check of various medical and/or biology texts will bring this up.
Q. What do you think of Dr. Andrew Kaufman's review of the early CV-19 and other published papers?
A. I haven't read individual doctor reviews of much of anything unless they are PhD's in material sciences. But is this same Andrew Kaufman? If it is, I doubt a person who identifies themselves as a 'natural healing consultant' will have much that passes peer review.
Q. Or the contagion experiments done during the Spanish Flu epidemic
A. I don't know about contagion experiments done during the Spanish Flu epidemic, but I do know of researchers getting viral samples from Alaskan graves. Later sequencing shows this strain was another zoonotic bird virus.
Q. How about this Polio one?
A. Have not looked at any polio videos. The medical community is pretty certain they have a handle on the cause and treatment of polio, and immunizations have pretty much eradicated this childhood scourge. A triumph of medicine, though I am sure the iron lung companies were non-plussed.
Dinosaur ancestors take it to the mammal upstarts
Re Mr. Doofs response...
BQ. Viruses are able to cross species now?
A. They have been able to do this for a very long time. I do not understand your blindness to historical fact for someone with your curious mind. This knowledge isn't hidden. A quick check of various medical and/or biology texts will bring this up.
B - Thanks for the link...I'll dig in more on this...
Can you provide one that satisfies the question you did not address? This one -
"Mr. Doof....have you run across any scientific evidence that a virus can cause a disease....per Koch's Postulates or the like?
I've been looking for solid proof and am coming up with donuts."
BQ. What do you think of Dr. Andrew Kaufman's review of the early CV-19 and other published papers?
A. I haven't read individual doctor reviews of much of anything unless they are PhD's in material sciences. But is this same Andrew Kaufman? If it is, I doubt a person who identifies themselves as a 'natural healing consultant' will have much that passes peer review.
B - His review of the paper in Nature and of the CV-19 papers is a simple review that anyone with a basic understanding of the vocabulary can do by applying some critical thinking and logic. How about a direct discussion of his review, Mr Doof... is that hard for you? Do you agree his reviews point out the lack of any root cause proof in those papers? I have a simple BSME and I had no trouble following his logic...BTW....his academic credentials are solid. Here's the presentation...it's about 30 minutes long...focuses on Koch's Postulates (do you agree Koch's Postulates should be met?)...
For those so inclined....he's put together a new piece that will be released tomorrow...
BQ. Or the contagion experiments done during the Spanish Flu epidemic
A. I don't know about contagion experiments done during the Spanish Flu epidemic, but I do know of researchers getting viral samples from Alaskan graves. Later sequencing shows this strain was another zoonotic bird virus.
B - Apples and oranges. Here's an article on it....w/o addressing who wrote it or what their credentials are...what does it suggest? Note I've found other accounts of influenza contagion experiments across many years....no proof of contagion was found...
https://sci-hub.tw/10.1001/jama.1919.02610310005002?fbclid=IwAR3UPpsU_wig45BHk1pSi13MFJUdH-xfFRgpA2G7h-BS3O4ImC3AUKI2Nkk
Q. How about this Polio one?
A. Have not looked at any polio videos. The medical community is pretty certain they have a handle on the cause and treatment of polio, and immunizations have pretty much eradicated this childhood scourge. A triumph of medicine, though I am sure the iron lung companies were non-plussed.
B - Pretty certain? No other plausible explanation?
Seems you're avoiding a direct discussion of the topic(s)...Mr Doof.
BQ. Viruses are able to cross species now?
A. They have been able to do this for a very long time. I do not understand your blindness to historical fact for someone with your curious mind. This knowledge isn't hidden. A quick check of various medical and/or biology texts will bring this up.
B - Thanks for the link...I'll dig in more on this...
Can you provide one that satisfies the question you did not address? This one -
"Mr. Doof....have you run across any scientific evidence that a virus can cause a disease....per Koch's Postulates or the like?
I've been looking for solid proof and am coming up with donuts."
BQ. What do you think of Dr. Andrew Kaufman's review of the early CV-19 and other published papers?
A. I haven't read individual doctor reviews of much of anything unless they are PhD's in material sciences. But is this same Andrew Kaufman? If it is, I doubt a person who identifies themselves as a 'natural healing consultant' will have much that passes peer review.
B - His review of the paper in Nature and of the CV-19 papers is a simple review that anyone with a basic understanding of the vocabulary can do by applying some critical thinking and logic. How about a direct discussion of his review, Mr Doof... is that hard for you? Do you agree his reviews point out the lack of any root cause proof in those papers? I have a simple BSME and I had no trouble following his logic...BTW....his academic credentials are solid. Here's the presentation...it's about 30 minutes long...focuses on Koch's Postulates (do you agree Koch's Postulates should be met?)...
BQ. Or the contagion experiments done during the Spanish Flu epidemic
A. I don't know about contagion experiments done during the Spanish Flu epidemic, but I do know of researchers getting viral samples from Alaskan graves. Later sequencing shows this strain was another zoonotic bird virus.
B - Apples and oranges. Here's an article on it....w/o addressing who wrote it or what their credentials are...what does it suggest? Note I've found other accounts of influenza contagion experiments across many years....no proof of contagion was found...
https://sci-hub.tw/10.1001/jama.1919.02610310005002?fbclid=IwAR3UPpsU_wig45BHk1pSi13MFJUdH-xfFRgpA2G7h-BS3O4ImC3AUKI2Nkk
Q. How about this Polio one?
A. Have not looked at any polio videos. The medical community is pretty certain they have a handle on the cause and treatment of polio, and immunizations have pretty much eradicated this childhood scourge. A triumph of medicine, though I am sure the iron lung companies were non-plussed.
B - Pretty certain? No other plausible explanation?
Seems you're avoiding a direct discussion of the topic(s)...Mr Doof.
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Q. "Mr. Doof....have you run across any scientific evidence that a virus can cause a disease....per Koch's Postulates or the like?
I've been looking for solid proof and am coming up with donuts."
A. I am not virologist or biological scientist by profession or by passion, so I haven't "come across" much of anything. I've not been looking for such in other words, though I thought that Koch's postulates (which are not Laws) were sort of like Newton's theories of gravity: good for the time works most of the time, then came Einstein. But at our fingertips is any number of scholarly articles which may help your quest for knowledge:
1
2
3
4
And my fave, the first virus discovered showed something smaller than bacteria (later called a 'virus'') causing disease in healthy plants after being isolated from sick plants.
Q. His (Dr. Andrew Kaufman) review of the paper in Nature and of the CV-19 papers is a simple review that anyone with a basic understanding of the vocabulary can do by applying some critical thinking and logic. How about a direct discussion of his review, Mr Doof... is that hard for you? Do you agree his reviews point out the lack of any root cause proof in those papers? I have a simple BSME and I had no trouble following his logic...BTW....his academic credentials are solid. Here's the presentation...it's about 30 minutes long...focuses on Koch's Postulates (do you agree Koch's Postulates should be met?)...
A. I have not read his paper in Nature. Do you have a link? If it is paywalled, I'm gonna have to say right now that I won't be paying to read it. Sorry, I have to save those pennies for more practical matters. The video did not convince me that the preponderance of the science community is wrong and he is right. Mildly interesting, but he seems to make some illogical conclusions even with my admittedly teeny tiny bit of general biology knowledge. His academic credentials are psychiatry? I am not sure this means he is up to date with the latest and greatest studies on the subject of viral disease. I see others have already started to question the good doctor.
Q. Apples and oranges. Here's an article on it....w/o addressing who wrote it or what their credentials are...what does it suggest? Note I've found other accounts of influenza contagion experiments across many years....no proof of contagion was found...
https://sci-hub.tw/10.1001/jama.1919.02610310005002?fbclid=IwAR3UPpsU_wig45BHk1pSi13MFJUdH-xfFRgpA2G7h-BS3O4ImC3AUKI2Nkk
A. Thanks for the article from 1915. The conclusion reads:
That conclusion is more or less saying that more study is needed. It doesn't fit the narrative that viruses do not cause disease, at least that is how I take this conclusion.
Q. Pretty certain? No other plausible explanation?
A. I say "pretty certain" because that is how the science thing works. The moment I say 100% is the moment I've become a zealot. With regards to polio, we've isolated the virus, we've developed a vaccine, and people who get the vaccine tend to be nearly 100% protected from catching the disease. Polio is still around in some distressed parts of the world and the people who get it are those who haven't been vaccinated. So I would say the confidence level is extremely high that the best explanation is as current medical evidence suggests. And for this layman, and even that is stretching it a great deal, that is good enough for me to say that there is likely no other plausible explanation for the cause of polio and that the best prevention is childhood immunizations.
I've been looking for solid proof and am coming up with donuts."
A. I am not virologist or biological scientist by profession or by passion, so I haven't "come across" much of anything. I've not been looking for such in other words, though I thought that Koch's postulates (which are not Laws) were sort of like Newton's theories of gravity: good for the time works most of the time, then came Einstein. But at our fingertips is any number of scholarly articles which may help your quest for knowledge:
1
2
3
4
And my fave, the first virus discovered showed something smaller than bacteria (later called a 'virus'') causing disease in healthy plants after being isolated from sick plants.
Q. His (Dr. Andrew Kaufman) review of the paper in Nature and of the CV-19 papers is a simple review that anyone with a basic understanding of the vocabulary can do by applying some critical thinking and logic. How about a direct discussion of his review, Mr Doof... is that hard for you? Do you agree his reviews point out the lack of any root cause proof in those papers? I have a simple BSME and I had no trouble following his logic...BTW....his academic credentials are solid. Here's the presentation...it's about 30 minutes long...focuses on Koch's Postulates (do you agree Koch's Postulates should be met?)...
A. I have not read his paper in Nature. Do you have a link? If it is paywalled, I'm gonna have to say right now that I won't be paying to read it. Sorry, I have to save those pennies for more practical matters. The video did not convince me that the preponderance of the science community is wrong and he is right. Mildly interesting, but he seems to make some illogical conclusions even with my admittedly teeny tiny bit of general biology knowledge. His academic credentials are psychiatry? I am not sure this means he is up to date with the latest and greatest studies on the subject of viral disease. I see others have already started to question the good doctor.
Q. Apples and oranges. Here's an article on it....w/o addressing who wrote it or what their credentials are...what does it suggest? Note I've found other accounts of influenza contagion experiments across many years....no proof of contagion was found...
https://sci-hub.tw/10.1001/jama.1919.02610310005002?fbclid=IwAR3UPpsU_wig45BHk1pSi13MFJUdH-xfFRgpA2G7h-BS3O4ImC3AUKI2Nkk
A. Thanks for the article from 1915. The conclusion reads:
That conclusion is more or less saying that more study is needed. It doesn't fit the narrative that viruses do not cause disease, at least that is how I take this conclusion.
Q. Pretty certain? No other plausible explanation?
A. I say "pretty certain" because that is how the science thing works. The moment I say 100% is the moment I've become a zealot. With regards to polio, we've isolated the virus, we've developed a vaccine, and people who get the vaccine tend to be nearly 100% protected from catching the disease. Polio is still around in some distressed parts of the world and the people who get it are those who haven't been vaccinated. So I would say the confidence level is extremely high that the best explanation is as current medical evidence suggests. And for this layman, and even that is stretching it a great deal, that is good enough for me to say that there is likely no other plausible explanation for the cause of polio and that the best prevention is childhood immunizations.
Attachments
The reviews of that book are entertaining:
Jeffrey H. Mindich
1.0 out of 5 stars If you could return Kindle books I would return this one
Reviewed in the United States on August 27, 2017
Verified Purchase
This book is hardly about epigenetics, but then how can you expect a book on epigenetics when the author doesn't even know what epigenetics is? Wallach states in the book, "The story of epigenetics is the story of nutrition and nutritional deficiency at the enzyme, chromosomal, and gene level, and how they affect the duplication and transmission of DNA." Really? Don't get me wrong; nutrition is extremely important and of course will affect gene expression, but to call epigenetics simply "the story of nutrition and nutritional deficiency" ignores the broader and more important implications of epigenetics.
In line with being off the topic of epigenetics, the first 25% of the book is a protracted history of medicine throughout time, followed by a thrashing of modern medical practice. I don't necessarily disagree with Wallach's criticisms, but then once again, it has nothing to do with epigenetics. He goes on to talk a lot about nutritional deficiencies, such as pellagra and beriberi. He also gives a very strange example of how genetically similar ducks fed differently experienced different growth. Again, basic nutrition, not epigenetics. Wallach draws a strange conclusion also in this regard. He says, "A human parallel to the duck experiment is the Japanese immigrants, who originally came to the United States as small wiry people about four foot eleven inches tall and weighing 100 pounds soaking wet. Their genetic potential for growth and development was never achieved by eating the low calorie, low nutrient Japanese rice, vegetable and fish diet of their native Japan. The second generation Japanese, conceived and born in the United States, were a different story. The number-one son over the next generation was six feet four inches tall, weighed 240 pounds and played tight end for the USC football team. Their genetic background was the same, however, their potential for height and physical development was more completely fulfilled by having access to unlimited calories, meat, protein, milk, eggs, vegetables, and vitamin and mineral supplements." Also, if you want to put this in the context of affecting genes, it might be worth noting that these second generation Japanese with "access to unlimited calories, meat, protein, milk, eggs, vegetables, and vitamin and mineral supplements" also started having cancer, heart disease, and diabetes rates considerably higher than in their native Japan, and more in line with Americans.
Its got a 4.5 rating on AMAZON.
Here's another review-
JeriOwl
5.0 out of 5 starsVerified Purchase
and his wife Dr. Ma Lan
If I could only own one book, it would have to be Epigenetics by Dr Joel Wallach DVM ND, his wife Dr. Ma Lan MD OMD and the Biomedical Nutritionist Dr. Gerhard Schrauzer PhD (who unfortunately passed away 5 months after Epigenetics was published in 2014...) You may ask "Why?" It's simple - the information contained within is worth it's weight in gold. Epigenetics should be read by every medical professional, every pet professional, every parent and most importantly by everyone who owns a human body.
Epigenetics shines light in the dark recesses of the Big Pharma deception - that many "chronic illnesses" that we take for granted today are actually a result of common nutritional deficiencies. Since Medical Professionals rarely take a course in basic Nutrition 101 in medical school, how can they be expected to understand even the very basic of "diseases of yesteryear" such as Beriberi, Rickets, Scurvy or Pellagra? (deficiencies of Vitamin B1 - Thiamin, D, C and B3 - Niacin respectively.. though D is mislabeled as a vitamin when it is truly a hormone!) Folate deficiency results in abnormally large red blood cells... could this be contributing to the seeming pandemic of circulatory issues particularly in the micro blood vessels? (Folic Acid is synthetic and takes 4 steps to convert to "real folate" in the body, coupled with the fact that most people have MTHFR genetics further restricting this conversion process means that folic acid is NOT a viable substitute for REAL folate ie 5-MTHF... Challenge of the day - see if your medical professional is familiar with this basic accepted fact.) Even the word "Vitamin" was unknown prior to 1911, how have we come so far and then gone full circle forgetting these basic building blocks of nutrition in just a short 100 years of human existence?!
I've personally read the research of a number of scientists and medical doctors who related arteriosclerosis as "scurvy of the heart" and congestive heart failure to B1 - thiamine deficiency (there's that Beriberi again!). In Epigenetics, Wallach relates performing an autopsy on a Rhesus monkey noting the pancreatic changes were typical of cystic fibrosis in humans - yet CF is supposedly a genetic defect ONLY FOUND IN HUMANS. There's even research linking MS to lead toxicity which can somewhat be alleviated by iron... There's so much research needing to be done with basic nutrition and connecting the dots to information already known (before it's forgotten), so why are most of the research dollars going to fund pharmaceutical research which are only designed to MANAGE the disease state instead of real nutrition designed to CURE the disease state?!? (Heck, even Dr. Thomas Scholbach in Germany has finally connected the dots showing that not only are May Thurner Syndrome, Nutcracker Syndrome, Pelvic Congestion Syndrome, CGCS / MALS and even the upper body Thoracic Outlet Syndrome are not only all commonly interrelated, he links them all to lumbar hyperlordosis and lumbar spinal injuries AND explains why EACH and ALL of these maladies are predominantly diagnosed in WOMEN 85% or so of the time. Not only that, but Dr. Scholbach FURTHER explains the WHY behind this predominance in women as a simple physics problem of the development of the female human pelvis during adolescence. However, all the research funds are again going to new surgical techniques and new medications, not into the basic foundation of WHY is this happening and what can be done to PREVENT this from developing in adolescent girls in the first place! Again corporate greed rules!)
Another problem that stymies medical research - human pathology is related in terms of names of those who diagnosed or discovered specific traits. Animal pathology is related in descriptive names of changes in the organs and tissues, it's like decoding 2 different languages. Dr. Wallach understands both sides of the coin due to his unique educational background and professional experience both as a veterinarian as well as a human doctor. Dr. Ma Lan helps to decode the language of western medicine to the wisdom of ancient eastern understanding. Mix in the in vast knowledge of nutrition with Dr. Schrauzer and you have a winning combination for unlocking the truth behind these so-called incurable chronic illnesses.
Did you know that each year all the dolphins were dying of congestive heart failure at Shedd's Aquarium in Chicago? Upon Wallach's intervention, once the dolphin's food was changed to correct the thiamin deficiency (beriberi), this problem completely abated.
Did you know that in the 1950s the domestic turkey population suddenly were dying from aortic aneurysms after the industry had altered the turkey feed? Upon Wallach's discovery of the copper deficiency which has now been restored to turkey feed, it's very rare for turkey farmers to loose turkeys due to aortic aneurysms.
Wallach found another zoo was unsuccessfully trying to breed arctic foxes, the few surviving pups from the small litters kept dying from a constantly changing variety of problems. Again, once the food supply was corrected (Wallach took the "genetically defective foxes" and put them on a toy breed dog food) within 2 years of his breeding attempts he had so many arctic foxes the zoo had to make a special display just for all the foxes. AND they begged Wallach not to do the same with their Elephants ;-)
Do yourself a favor. Pick up a copy of Epigenetics. Keep it with you to read when you run errands especially where you may be waiting 5 or 10 or 15 minutes (I DARE you to read Epigenetics while waiting at your next doctor appointment! I'll even DOUBLE DARE YOU to buy an extra copy to give to your doctor or medical professional!) Plan to read Epigenetics in small tidbits. Not more than 3 or 4 pages at a time. I suspect you'll be fascinated and want to continue reading at greater length, however there's so much information packed into each bite-sized portion that it will take some time to digest fully before moving to the next course of the meal.
Bon Appetit ! ;-)
CoVid19 skeptics should find a less quacky spokesperson than this Joel Wallach.
By the way, I am big fan of a well balanced diet, enough exercise and rest, a positive mental attitude, interacting with friends and family, not running to the drug store for every ache and pain, and a delicious fermented malt beverage now and again (and sometimes a few agains in a row).
By the way, I am big fan of a well balanced diet, enough exercise and rest, a positive mental attitude, interacting with friends and family, not running to the drug store for every ache and pain, and a delicious fermented malt beverage now and again (and sometimes a few agains in a row).
Doof...thanks for the reply.
Re Dr. Kaufman.....decent credentials.....
Faculty Positions
- Clinical Assistant Professor of Psychiatry, SUNY Upstate Medical University
- Vice President, Psychiatry Faculty Practice Corporation, SUNY Upstate Medical University
- Medical Director of Faculty Practice, SUNY Upstate Medical University
- Assistant Director, Forensic Psychiatry Fellowship, SUNY Upstate Medical University
- Consulting Expert Witness, Syracuse University Law School
- Medical University of South Carolina, Doctor of Medicine
- Massachusetts Institute of Technology, BS in Biology
- American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology Board Certification in Psychiatry and Forensic Psychiatry (2011)
- SUNY Upstate Medical University, Fellowship in Forensic Psychiatry
- Duke University School of Medicine, Resident in Psychiatry
Note he does not have a paper in Nature....he reviewed one in the River of Rats presentation that you watched?
Still looking for any scientific proof that a virus (non-living thingy) is the cause of this or any influenza.... I've come across many others who have searched and searched....w/o success. You'd think with the notion of this being settled science....these kinds of proofs would be numerous. But they're not. All I see are words like "implicated in" or "assumed to be"....
The contagion experiments also point to a huge pile of uncertainty regarding the assumed pathogenic nature of these germs.....still being referred to as micro-organisms....but they're not alive so they fail the micro-organism definition from the start. An organism is a life form.....but a virus is not alive, eh.
I'll check out the links you provided this weekend....thanks again.
Here's Kaufman on RFB last night....and remember to tune in at 12:30 PST today for his new film.....
Andrew Kaufman
www.youtube.com
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You guys are arguing with a guy who thinks Earth is flat. Just saying.
I like to watch his failed tactics.
Mostly pathos attacks, specifically appeals to shame.
Appeals to shame don't work when trying to support an extraordinary claim.
It simply undermines the person's ethos.
Stopped by the Goleta Blenders yesterday pm....order taker behind plexiglass....both of us muzzled. Gal could not hear me clearly nor I her....so we both stepped to the side and pulled down our muzzles....placed my order. I asked her what she thought of all this....she looked up and said it's all BS.....and did I know the test was like 50% false positive! I gave her some links to check out....Kaufman etc. She was all over it writing it down....
Seems folks are waking up to the deception....
The folks in line behind me....not so much.
Seems folks are waking up to the deception....
The folks in line behind me....not so much.
Auto....could you provide me with some examples of what you would consider top notch rhetoric?
I'm willing to learn & an example or two from your greatness.(in your own mind )would be awesome.
Also, who da fook made you the authority on how folks should express themselves?
Oh....maybe you have an advanced degree that you think gives you that privilege?
Do tell....