Bitch house is pretty close last time I looked "been a while" but they do have pretty good collection of pyzels2. 40% of floor space? Either the shops I go to that carry FW are “cheating” or this statement is false.
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Bitch house is pretty close last time I looked "been a while" but they do have pretty good collection of pyzels2. 40% of floor space? Either the shops I go to that carry FW are “cheating” or this statement is false.
Please remember my lead post was pasted replies from an online conversation so wording isn't just straight statements. They are responses in some cases so may read off but the intent is clear. Legendary Australian shaper wasn't totally blaming FW for the fall off, he's aware of market conditions. FW having a sale caused him to update previous reviews of similar comments. FW is implementing sale pricing due to over ordering and possible need to change inventory before next season for boards already planned for production. Typically shapers make to order for retail and wholesale. Speculated inventory from multiple manufacturers that use forecasting to build in Thailand instead of actual orders from shops or customers has created a glut of surfboards sitting in warehouses or in some shops on consignment. Having said that, the potential sale of millions of dollars of discounted inventory may have ripple effects for your local manufacturers from the further reduction of demand.People love to make FW the boogie man.
Sales have not been falling the last 6 months because of FW. That's total bullshit.
Sales have been falling because there was an unprecedented run on boards when free money was being given out in 2020 and 2021. Shapers were busier than they had ever been. No one was complaining about FW taking their business then, BTW. Now things are cooling off and people aren't willing to spend like they were.
In the wise words of Matt Biolos......"shut up and make a better board."
What about all the starving children in taiwan and will @ReForest feed them all the ibolic foam scrapsPlease remember my lead post was pasted replies from an online conversation so wording isn't just straight statements. They are responses in some cases so may read off but the intent is clear. Legendary Australian shaper wasn't totally blaming FW for the fall off, he's aware of market conditions. FW having a sale caused him to update previous reviews of similar comments. FW is implementing sale pricing due to over ordering and possible need to change inventory before next season for boards already planned for production. Typically shapers make to order for retail and wholesale. Speculated inventory from multiple manufacturers that use forecasting to build in Thailand instead of actual orders from shops or customers has created a glut of surfboards sitting in warehouses or in some shops on consignment. Having said that, the potential sale of millions of dollars of discounted inventory may have ripple effects for your local manufacturers from the further reduction of demand.
All CI, lost, sharp eye, chili, DHD and many or 100% locally cut, glassed, sanded in country of sale by local surfers and craftsmenSometime soon the paradigm will change again. Shipping boards all over the globe makes zero sense to me in 2022. Perhaps it will be regional cutting machines cutting boards on demand for local glassers to finish or it could be something that poops finished boards out of a 3D printer.
Gotta call bullshit on the opening post though even though I hate firewire and think very little of Price. The opening post doesn't comport with reality or what I see in my local surf shops......even the ones that carry firewire.
Let em eat half a handful of freezing cold gravel. They'll be the lucky ones.What about all the starving children in taiwan and will @ReForest feed them all the ibolic foam scraps
Agreed. I see the machine and local glasser model going down to the regional level. NorthEast, Mid-Atlantic, Florida, Southern Cal, Central Cal, NorthWest and Hawaii popping out boards from all the major brands. I live a short walk from one of the biggest shops in the NorthEast and they have more boards on the rack from at least four other brands than they do Firewire. You don't see many firewires at all in the water with most of the talented young guns being on Sharpeye and Lost primarily.All CI, lost, sharp eye, chili, DHD and many or 100% locally cut, glassed, sanded in country of sale by local surfers and craftsmen
also I barely see people surfing on FW boards. Lost, CI, JS, Sharp eye are the most commonly seen in my line ups
Every few months whether we want it or not!This thread is giving me deja vu
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They have 8 FWs…more than that Pyzels, Yaters, Mesas…a few Wilderness.Bitch house is pretty close last time I looked "been a while" but they do have pretty good collection of pyzels
That's an interesting narrative but it doesn't tell the whole story. Some people simply like particular shapes/shapers and the manufacture is all but irrelevant. For instance, I'm a Tomo fan and was recently really interested in the Revo. I wasn't wrong, it's a great design. The choices for getting one at the time was to either buy a Firewire at the local shop or to order one from Tomo. I imagine there would be a long wait in ordering one, and with shipping would cost around $500 more. It took zero second for me to decide.That’s kinda partly what I was trying to get at.
People who do sports / hobbies are used to there being a couple of large market leading companies in the space who provide the best tech in high volume - think specialised for bikes or head for tennis racquets, sure there’s an equivalent in golf.
People buy those products because they are the biggest company with the newest “tech” and biggest marketing budgets. It’s only the very elite in those sports who would have anything custom from a small builder (& then often on the quiet with their sponsors logos on) . Your average tennis player would not believe that “chuck” is making a superior racquet in his shed down the block.
Plenty of people (not on erBB) would expect the same in surfing, FW have positioned themselves as this with aggressive marketing, new “tech” and aggressive targeting of retail space ( see consignment above ) and premium pricing. They’ve backed this up with lots of inventory and you can just buy off the rack without the random surfer labour roulette game a custom order can entail.
And to be fair, you rarely hear that any of their boards are “bad” shapes. The seaside and the seaside & beyond all seem to get universally positive feedback in my experience
Like @jkb mentioned: "Sales have been falling because there was an unprecedented run on boards when free money was being given out in 2020 and 2021. Shapers were busier than they had ever been. No one was complaining about FW taking their business then, BTW. Now things are cooling off and people aren't willing to spend like they were."FW having a sale caused him to update previous reviews of similar comments. FW is implementing sale pricing due to over ordering and possible need to change inventory before next season for boards already planned for production.
7. Ordering a custom surfboard is still (in 2022) one of the shittiest customer service experiences in any industry even when everything goes smoothly.
ALL the trades tend to be like this. Poor communication, delays, issues with subconrtactors, labor, etc.I still dont understand why this doesnt get more attention. Most shapers are miserable at running businesses. Even ordering from a multi million dollar global company like lost sucks. As if they cant figure out how to improve their ordering experience and learn to set expectations around delivery. other industries would get thrashed but this sh!t is ok in the surfboard industry?
- Why do so many shapers still get things wrong on custom orders? Wrong fins, wrong color, wrong volume, wrong dims?
-Why do so many shapers take months without proper updates and then blame their subcontractors for the problem?
-Lie about status of the boards when asked?
-No proper tracking systems and everything is a handshake bro deal?
If shapers want to improve their businesses they need to improve the ordering experience. For most average surfers custom ordering a board would be a total disaster and not even improve the quality of equipment or surfing level.
Firewire originally started to bring technology to the surfboard world. You all seem to forget that at the time their boards were space age tech when most shapers were building crap quality PU boards. Firewire performed better and was far far more durable than anything on the market at the time. Also when started 100% of boards were made in San Diego and in Currumbin and costed more than they do now from thailand. At one point after moving to thailand they ever tried to offer custom orders but it failed.
- Im not going to justify the rest of the stuff because I cant. But one thing they did right is not price their boards below market rates which makes other boards in the shop competitively priced.
And these are usually guys who really SHOULD know better, it's just they never learn.How often is there a post on here of an adult terrified about asking the shaper what the status of his board that, for some reason, he paid 100% up front for?
Same.I see tons of FWs
Off the top of my headSupport the shapers who do it right and stop going to the ones who do it wrong and custom would be no problem I can name two shapers 100% positive experience with custom boards every time:
Malcom Campbell
William Riedel
You are correct about current economic conditions. There may be shops and manufacturers that predicted wrongly, over stocked and go out of business if they can't pay their bills. I'm feeling it in the surf industry.Like @jkb mentioned: "Sales have been falling because there was an unprecedented run on boards when free money was being given out in 2020 and 2021. Shapers were busier than they had ever been. No one was complaining about FW taking their business then, BTW. Now things are cooling off and people aren't willing to spend like they were."
>>> Free money, logistic problems, local production shut downs due to Covid, 'send-me-now-what-you-have-in-stock-because-the-consumer-wants-to-burn-money' instead off planned production and ordering.
And now things are cooling off. In the mean time some warehouses are completely full and brands need to make space (and need the cash) instead off hiring extra stock space. This isn't surfing specific but is seen in more sectors of the economy.
Looking at my own quiver. I do have a FW Seaside besides XTR's. I do like epoxies (because of the way they ride, but also because of its longlivety and less climate impact) and local shapers (I live in Europe) aren't that keen on epoxy glassing. It is really hard to order epoxies at local shapers and if so they are bulk produced in Asia (which is what Pukas and Euroglass are doing). So what's the difference with FW (for me living in Europe)?
Legendary Australian shaper has been at the game for generations while discovering spots and surfing for money to move on to being an innovator and shaper to world champs. His shapes are cherished around the world. Yes, he's a little burnt out but wants to keep doing what he's doing and there be as much opportunity as possible for those that want to follow a similar path.Whoever said that crap in the first post is just angry his hand hacked, barely symmetrical and never two identical surfboards are not selling.
Slater and investor friends bought Firewire several years ago after their low ball (or other issues) got denied trying to buy CI. Burton eventually sold CI back to the Merricks with Dane R and maybe others as investors. At the time in the US, FW was lagging in sales and had a growing neg reputation for quality due to yellowing, delam, and breakage. I watched one of those explode practically on a waist high floater. The Slater name and white surfboards increased sales. Except for when they sold through inventory during Covid and couldn't get more, sales have been strong since.Unless Slater has controlling shares in FW or something, I don’t see how legend guy (is he in witness protection?) can pin their business practices on him.