Legendary surfer/shaper reviews Firewire Surfboards

[rowjimmytour]

2. 40% of floor space? Either the shops I go to that carry FW are “cheating” or this statement is false.

Bitch house is pretty close last time I looked "been a while" but they do have pretty good collection of pyzels

 

[surfwhere]

People love to make FW the boogie man.

Sales have not been falling the last 6 months because of FW. That's total bullshit.

Sales have been falling because there was an unprecedented run on boards when free money was being given out in 2020 and 2021. Shapers were busier than they had ever been. No one was complaining about FW taking their business then, BTW. Now things are cooling off and people aren't willing to spend like they were.

In the wise words of Matt Biolos......"shut up and make a better board."

Please remember my lead post was pasted replies from an online conversation so wording isn't just straight statements. They are responses in some cases so may read off but the intent is clear. Legendary Australian shaper wasn't totally blaming FW for the fall off, he's aware of market conditions. FW having a sale caused him to update previous reviews of similar comments. FW is implementing sale pricing due to over ordering and possible need to change inventory before next season for boards already planned for production. Typically shapers make to order for retail and wholesale. Speculated inventory from multiple manufacturers that use forecasting to build in Thailand instead of actual orders from shops or customers has created a glut of surfboards sitting in warehouses or in some shops on consignment. Having said that, the potential sale of millions of dollars of discounted inventory may have ripple effects for your local manufacturers from the further reduction of demand.

 

[rowjimmytour]

Please remember my lead post was pasted replies from an online conversation so wording isn't just straight statements. They are responses in some cases so may read off but the intent is clear. Legendary Australian shaper wasn't totally blaming FW for the fall off, he's aware of market conditions. FW having a sale caused him to update previous reviews of similar comments. FW is implementing sale pricing due to over ordering and possible need to change inventory before next season for boards already planned for production. Typically shapers make to order for retail and wholesale. Speculated inventory from multiple manufacturers that use forecasting to build in Thailand instead of actual orders from shops or customers has created a glut of surfboards sitting in warehouses or in some shops on consignment. Having said that, the potential sale of millions of dollars of discounted inventory may have ripple effects for your local manufacturers from the further reduction of demand.

What about all the starving children in taiwan and will @ReForest feed them all the ibolic foam scraps

 

[ULUSURFER]

Sometime soon the paradigm will change again. Shipping boards all over the globe makes zero sense to me in 2022. Perhaps it will be regional cutting machines cutting boards on demand for local glassers to finish or it could be something that poops finished boards out of a 3D printer.

Gotta call bullshit on the opening post though even though I hate firewire and think very little of Price. The opening post doesn't comport with reality or what I see in my local surf shops......even the ones that carry firewire.

All CI, lost, sharp eye, chili, DHD and many or 100% locally cut, glassed, sanded in country of sale by local surfers and craftsmen

also I barely see people surfing on FW boards. Lost, CI, JS, Sharp eye are the most commonly seen in my line ups

 

[Retropete]

What about all the starving children in taiwan and will @ReForest feed them all the ibolic foam scraps

Let em eat half a handful of freezing cold gravel. They'll be the lucky ones.

 

[GromsDad]

All CI, lost, sharp eye, chili, DHD and many or 100% locally cut, glassed, sanded in country of sale by local surfers and craftsmen

also I barely see people surfing on FW boards. Lost, CI, JS, Sharp eye are the most commonly seen in my line ups

Agreed. I see the machine and local glasser model going down to the regional level. NorthEast, Mid-Atlantic, Florida, Southern Cal, Central Cal, NorthWest and Hawaii popping out boards from all the major brands. I live a short walk from one of the biggest shops in the NorthEast and they have more boards on the rack from at least four other brands than they do Firewire. You don't see many firewires at all in the water with most of the talented young guns being on Sharpeye and Lost primarily.

 

[oeste858]

This thread is giving me deja vu
View attachment 142300

Every few months whether we want it or not!

 

[Duffy LaCoronilla]

Bitch house is pretty close last time I looked "been a while" but they do have pretty good collection of pyzels

They have 8 FWs…more than that Pyzels, Yaters, Mesas…a few Wilderness.

They would have a bunch of Andreinis but they don’t stay on the rack for more than a few hours.

I’d say FW has 40% of the middle rack. No FWs on the wall surrounding that rack. They had most of the middle a couple years ago but nobody was buying them. Still nobody buys them.

Beach House isn’t really a surfboard buying shop anyway. It’s a clothing store with some boards in the back.

There’s another shop a few blocks away and 100% of their boards are Channel Islands!!!!

 

[estreet]

That’s kinda partly what I was trying to get at.

People who do sports / hobbies are used to there being a couple of large market leading companies in the space who provide the best tech in high volume - think specialised for bikes or head for tennis racquets, sure there’s an equivalent in golf.

People buy those products because they are the biggest company with the newest “tech” and biggest marketing budgets. It’s only the very elite in those sports who would have anything custom from a small builder (& then often on the quiet with their sponsors logos on) . Your average tennis player would not believe that “chuck” is making a superior racquet in his shed down the block.

Plenty of people (not on erBB) would expect the same in surfing, FW have positioned themselves as this with aggressive marketing, new “tech” and aggressive targeting of retail space ( see consignment above ) and premium pricing. They’ve backed this up with lots of inventory and you can just buy off the rack without the random surfer labour roulette game a custom order can entail.

And to be fair, you rarely hear that any of their boards are “bad” shapes. The seaside and the seaside & beyond all seem to get universally positive feedback in my experience

That's an interesting narrative but it doesn't tell the whole story. Some people simply like particular shapes/shapers and the manufacture is all but irrelevant. For instance, I'm a Tomo fan and was recently really interested in the Revo. I wasn't wrong, it's a great design. The choices for getting one at the time was to either buy a Firewire at the local shop or to order one from Tomo. I imagine there would be a long wait in ordering one, and with shipping would cost around $500 more. It took zero second for me to decide.

So I guess Tomo is too.

 

[morrisone]

FW having a sale caused him to update previous reviews of similar comments. FW is implementing sale pricing due to over ordering and possible need to change inventory before next season for boards already planned for production.

Like @jkb mentioned: "Sales have been falling because there was an unprecedented run on boards when free money was being given out in 2020 and 2021. Shapers were busier than they had ever been. No one was complaining about FW taking their business then, BTW. Now things are cooling off and people aren't willing to spend like they were."

>>> Free money, logistic problems, local production shut downs due to Covid, 'send-me-now-what-you-have-in-stock-because-the-consumer-wants-to-burn-money' instead off planned production and ordering.

And now things are cooling off. In the mean time some warehouses are completely full and brands need to make space (and need the cash) instead off hiring extra stock space. This isn't surfing specific but is seen in more sectors of the economy.

Looking at my own quiver. I do have a FW Seaside besides XTR's. I do like epoxies (because of the way they ride, but also because of its longlivety and less climate impact) and local shapers (I live in Europe) aren't that keen on epoxy glassing. It is really hard to order epoxies at local shapers and if so they are bulk produced in Asia (which is what Pukas and Euroglass are doing). So what's the difference with FW (for me living in Europe)?

 

[MrSteve]

Talked to a local shaper about a board on Monday. Got sent this pic on Thursday...even before I sent a deposit. I'll take that over a FW anyday.

 

[casa_mugrienta]

7. Ordering a custom surfboard is still (in 2022) one of the shittiest customer service experiences in any industry even when everything goes smoothly.

I still dont understand why this doesnt get more attention. Most shapers are miserable at running businesses. Even ordering from a multi million dollar global company like lost sucks. As if they cant figure out how to improve their ordering experience and learn to set expectations around delivery. other industries would get thrashed but this sh!t is ok in the surfboard industry?

- Why do so many shapers still get things wrong on custom orders? Wrong fins, wrong color, wrong volume, wrong dims?

-Why do so many shapers take months without proper updates and then blame their subcontractors for the problem?

-Lie about status of the boards when asked?

-No proper tracking systems and everything is a handshake bro deal?

If shapers want to improve their businesses they need to improve the ordering experience. For most average surfers custom ordering a board would be a total disaster and not even improve the quality of equipment or surfing level.

Firewire originally started to bring technology to the surfboard world. You all seem to forget that at the time their boards were space age tech when most shapers were building crap quality PU boards. Firewire performed better and was far far more durable than anything on the market at the time. Also when started 100% of boards were made in San Diego and in Currumbin and costed more than they do now from thailand. At one point after moving to thailand they ever tried to offer custom orders but it failed.

• Im not going to justify the rest of the stuff because I cant. But one thing they did right is not price their boards below market rates which makes other boards in the shop competitively priced.

ALL the trades tend to be like this. Poor communication, delays, issues with subconrtactors, labor, etc.

There are PLENTY of guys who get it right though.

If you order from a guy who's fvcked up your order before or from Rich Pavel, it's on YOU. So STFU when things don't turn out like you imagined they would.

How often is there a post on here of an adult terrified about asking the shaper what the status of his board that, for some reason, he paid 100% up front for?

And these are usually guys who really SHOULD know better, it's just they never learn.

If you can't confront another person you paid a deposit or stupidly the full balance you're a pussy.

If you can't refuse a board because the order was wrong or the glasswork was sub-par you're a pussy.

People like you are the reason so many people in the trades (this includes surfboards) are incompetent in multiple ways -because you are too much of a pussy to stand up when work is done wrong.

 

[casa_mugrienta]

I see tons of FWs

Same.

All over CA and at some of the best waves on the planet.

They are all over the place. Most likely the largest share of surfboards on the planet aside from Wavestorm.

 

[casa_mugrienta]

Support the shapers who do it right and stop going to the ones who do it wrong and custom would be no problem I can name two shapers 100% positive experience with custom boards every time:
Malcom Campbell
William Riedel

Off the top of my head

Xanadu
Sharpeye
Rusty
Proctor
Mitsven

I have to laugh when a shaper gets the order wrong and the customer accepts the board anyway
Even funnier when they order again.

Guy who got it wrong but immediately took action to make it right upon my email:

Album

Company that got it wrong (board shoudn't have passed QC) but when I pointed it out took immediate action to make it right:

JS

I don't think twice about refusing a board.

 

[kidfury]

used off the rack or craigslist

maybe I'll go 2 5/8" x 20 1/4" this time.. 27.8 liters ought to be just perfect

 

[Northern_Shores]

Firewire makes durable surfboards for a wide range of surfers and ability levels. What's to hate about that? They even have Kelly Slater and he is designing some sick boards. The Cymatic is great!

Whoever said that crap in the first post is just angry his hand hacked, barely symmetrical and never two identical surfboards are not selling. If FW is pushing out Shitters Toy Company and that sourcünt Ryan Lovelace, then I'm all for it.

 

[surfwhere]

Like @jkb mentioned: "Sales have been falling because there was an unprecedented run on boards when free money was being given out in 2020 and 2021. Shapers were busier than they had ever been. No one was complaining about FW taking their business then, BTW. Now things are cooling off and people aren't willing to spend like they were."

>>> Free money, logistic problems, local production shut downs due to Covid, 'send-me-now-what-you-have-in-stock-because-the-consumer-wants-to-burn-money' instead off planned production and ordering.

And now things are cooling off. In the mean time some warehouses are completely full and brands need to make space (and need the cash) instead off hiring extra stock space. This isn't surfing specific but is seen in more sectors of the economy.

Looking at my own quiver. I do have a FW Seaside besides XTR's. I do like epoxies (because of the way they ride, but also because of its longlivety and less climate impact) and local shapers (I live in Europe) aren't that keen on epoxy glassing. It is really hard to order epoxies at local shapers and if so they are bulk produced in Asia (which is what Pukas and Euroglass are doing). So what's the difference with FW (for me living in Europe)?

You are correct about current economic conditions. There may be shops and manufacturers that predicted wrongly, over stocked and go out of business if they can't pay their bills. I'm feeling it in the surf industry.

No one was complaining then because those import companies (Catch Surf, FW, Torq, GSI, Surftech, as well as those with mixed offering), that normally take up a good portion of sales barely or couldn't get boards made or shipped from Asia. If the importers could get boards in, they would have stuffed their stockists to the gills, consignment or not, pushing endemic builds further away from rack presence. At the shop where I work that had, has, and is happening with those companies.

In some places warehouse inventory is close. So, if a shop doesn't look like they have a ton of dedicated floorspace for like FW, it doesn't mean after a board sells it's not quickly replaced. Domestic manufacturers don't typically have inventory and usually ship stock in a 5 board box 6 weeks or more after order. Warehousers have reps or their own route trucks replacing 6'6 Dominators sometimes the day they are sold. Where I work that is often done with Torq.

Yes, that's business but I try to look at the industry from 10,000 feet and not just from legendary Australian shaper's wallet perspective. One thing many don't consider is that a good portion of that consumer base were noobs with more free time than ever. Now they are losing it unless laid off. Many of those that purchased during that period will never have multiple boards and the one they bought then (or now) may be the only one they'll ever have. Selling off noob equipment (lbs, mals/mids, fishes) may not be as easy as it was. Manufacturers and shops now too heavy in that stock may be caught looking for customers that don't exist, even on discount.

As a lifelong surfer I wish they'd all never come back to the beach. As someone connected to the industry in retail and wholesale, I feel both domestic and import manufacturers, need to encourage those that stay to improve through better water knowledge and buy more appropriate equipment in next purchase for how they want to surf. Doing so will create demand in that sector for all types of boards. And then most of them will stay on that board forever especially if epoxy since it holds up. Finding dorks like us that buy board after board is not as easy as many assume but there are lots.

Europeans that prefer epoxy construction are in a bit of a spot as it is true that many of their glassers won't do epoxy. I've experienced that in sourcing distribution manufacturing there, as well as the consignment inventory issue. This is an instance where FW and others serve a needed purpose but not having custom is a bummer. This is also part of the path that legendary Australian shaper, who makes boards there, has lost Euro retailers that had been with him for years.

 

[surfwhere]

Whoever said that crap in the first post is just angry his hand hacked, barely symmetrical and never two identical surfboards are not selling.

Legendary Australian shaper has been at the game for generations while discovering spots and surfing for money to move on to being an innovator and shaper to world champs. His shapes are cherished around the world. Yes, he's a little burnt out but wants to keep doing what he's doing and there be as much opportunity as possible for those that want to follow a similar path.

 

[estreet]

Unless Slater has controlling shares in FW or something, I don’t see how legend guy (is he in witness protection?) can pin their business practices on him.

 

[surfwhere]

Unless Slater has controlling shares in FW or something, I don’t see how legend guy (is he in witness protection?) can pin their business practices on him.

Slater and investor friends bought Firewire several years ago after their low ball (or other issues) got denied trying to buy CI. Burton eventually sold CI back to the Merricks with Dane R and maybe others as investors. At the time in the US, FW was lagging in sales and had a growing neg reputation for quality due to yellowing, delam, and breakage. I watched one of those explode practically on a waist high floater. The Slater name and white surfboards increased sales. Except for when they sold through inventory during Covid and couldn't get more, sales have been strong since.

I'm not doxxing legendary Australian shaper but he's not hard to find.