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Vaccine Passports. Constitutional or Not?

S

Sharkbiscuit

Duke status
Aug 6, 2003
26,709
19,653
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Jacksonville Beach
Rlacey111 said:
How can you be so sure we are all done at that point?

1. At face vaule, The experts we are suppose to trust, have flip flopped and been wrong with virtually every decision they have made. The labeled it a new virus and said this was different than every other virus in history, right? Isnt that why the experts that are in charge of this seem to be playing catch up with their decision making, They had so much to learn about right?

2. Well how are people suppose to trust that after we take an expieremental medicine, that's not approved by the FDA, that you can never get back out of your body, that doesn't stop transmission, that it will all be over?

3. Isnt it possible this virus thats different than every other virus ever encountered could possibly mutant among people who got the shot if its transmissable? It seems like if you can still pass it, even if all parties have the shot, that seems like its entirely possible.

4. To me it seems like this will never end, regardless of "vaccination" rates. Most likely, annual or bi annual boosters will be required for all who take the shot, and there will always be another variant as long as transmission is possible.
Click to expand...
1. A pandemic is by nature something you're going to react to. It's not a cut/dry scenario where you have the virus you need to respond to isolated in a test tube in a lab on Day 0 with an MRNA vaccine developed and ready for testing at scale.

2. Because they tested it on a representative sample and the hospitalization data shows those admitted are OVERWHELMINGLY not vaccinated.

3. Yes. It's possible a massive meteor is going to collide with Uranus, careen into Earth, and cause a mass extinction, too. This criticism of the vaccine is yet another example of letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.

4. Yes.

rice is sure we're done because you can't produce goods or render services in a bubble forever. The overwhelming majority of people who are vaccinated won't need to be hospitalized. Those who have elected to be vaccinated are now about as threatened as they are every flu season - a demonstrably acceptable risk to society - and the rest are at liberty to not get the vaccine - and not be allowed to NYC gyms/restaurants, employment at Tyson Foods, etc.
 
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grapedrink

grapedrink

Duke status
May 21, 2011
26,215
14,989
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A Beach
Sharkbiscuit said:
So you agree past-tense "destroyed the economy" was unleaded full potato?
Click to expand...
I don’t agree with the idea that we destroyed the economy.

Deficit was $1T in 2019. The economy hasn't run on artificial fuel for like 3-4 years of our lives in the late 90s.
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Agreed, and we will continue to print money because there will probably never be a POTUS who will put an end to it and take all the blame for the aftermath that collectively belongs to every POTUS and congressman for the last several preceding decades :drowning:
 
R

Rlacey111

Nep status
Feb 14, 2021
650
458
63
Sharkbiscuit said:
1. A pandemic is by nature something you're going to react to. It's not a cut/dry scenario where you have the virus you need to respond to isolated in a test tube in a lab on Day 0 with an MRNA vaccine developed and ready for testing at scale.

2. Because they tested it on a representative sample and the hospitalization data shows those admitted are OVERWHELMINGLY not vaccinated.

3. Yes. It's possible a massive meteor is going to collide with Uranus, careen into Earth, and cause a mass extinction, too. This criticism of the vaccine is yet another example of letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.

4. Yes.

rice is sure we're done because you can't produce goods or render services in a bubble forever. The overwhelming majority of people who are vaccinated won't need to be hospitalized. Those who have elected to be vaccinated are now about as threatened as they are every flu season - a demonstrably acceptable risk to society - and the rest are at liberty to not get the vaccine - and not be allowed to NYC gyms/restaurants, employment at Tyson Foods, etc.
Click to expand...

1. This is the 19th Covid (edit: bad info, it was the 6th on record) .....Is a tiger, that much different from a lion? They both are cats and will kill you in very similar ways. Not to mention, there is strong evidence that this came from a lab. So someone must have been doing research on it if that's the case. If it's not from a lab, it's still the 19th variant of Covid.

2. Very near-sighted point of view. Again if this is so new and the experts really make it seem like that is the case. You have no idea the health risks involving these things over time. No one does, there is literally no way to know. And again I wasn't talking about hospitalizations, I was talking about transmission rates which are proven to exist amongst the "Vaccinated" now

3. Thats a hyperbolic Strawman argument, it has no correlation to this discussion.

4. That is easy to agree on i guess

The passport stuff will go away with time, and there are and always will be exemptions, and all will have to accommodate to operate with the federal laws of commerce.
 
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S

Sharkbiscuit

Duke status
Aug 6, 2003
26,709
19,653
113
Jacksonville Beach
Rlacey111 said:
1. This is the 19th Covid.....Is a tiger, that much different from a lion? They both are cats and will kill you in very similar ways. Not to mention, there is strong evidence that this came from a lab. So someone must have been doing research on it if that's the case. If it's not from a lab, it's still the 19th variant of Covid.

2. Very near-sighted point of view. Again if this is so new and the experts really make it seem like that is the case. You have no idea the health risks involving these things over time. No one does, there is literally no way to know. And again I wasn't talking about hospitalizations, I was talking about transmission rates which are proven to exist amongst the "Vaccinated" now

3. Thats a hyperbolic Strawman argument, it has no correlation to this discussion.

4. That is easy to agree on i guess

The passport stuff will go away with time, and there are and always will be exemptions, and all will have to accommodate to operate with the federal laws of commerce.
Click to expand...
Holy hell, "there is strong evidence it came from a lab" yet we have the data on rate of vaccination among the currently hospitalized and this point of view is nearsighted.

You came up with the hypothetical and didn't like my example of sh!t you cannot concretely know ahead of time.

Judging from the below asking if this thing is different than every other virus ever, in stark contrast to your tiger/lion comparison, and the lab hypothesis having strong evidence yet, ~95%+ of the currently hospitalized are unvaccinated, and the problem is transmission rates among the vaccinated....

rice gave you a simple clear answer. Vaccination drastically cuts your chances of being hospitalized for a disease with an already low fatality rate. That's his definition of done. Somehow that definition isn't good enough, because it's possible for the vaccinated to transmit the disease.

Just make it easier on everyone and say you don't trust the vaccine and you're anti any regulations, instead of manning both the "it could be different from all the others" and "how different is a lion from a tiger" barricades.

Isnt it possible this virus thats different than every other virus ever encountered could possibly mutant among people who got the shot if its transmissable? It seems like if you can still pass it, even if all parties have the shot, that seems like its entirely possible.
Click to expand...
 
afoaf

afoaf

Duke status
Jun 25, 2008
49,639
23,257
113
Rlacey111 said:
1. This is the 19th Covid.....Is a tiger, that much different from a lion? They both are cats and will kill you in very similar ways. Not to mention, there is strong evidence that this came from a lab. So someone must have been doing research on it if that's the case. If it's not from a lab, it's still the 19th variant of Covid.

2. Very near-sighted point of view. Again if this is so new and the experts really make it seem like that is the case. You have no idea the health risks involving these things over time. No one does, there is literally no way to know. And again I wasn't talking about hospitalizations, I was talking about transmission rates which are proven to exist amongst the "Vaccinated" now

3. Thats a hyperbolic Strawman argument, it has no correlation to this discussion.

4. That is easy to agree on i guess

The passport stuff will go away with time, and there are and always will be exemptions, and all will have to accommodate to operate with the federal laws of commerce.
Click to expand...
it's not the 19th...it was discovered in 2019.
 
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afoaf

afoaf

Duke status
Jun 25, 2008
49,639
23,257
113
Rlacey111 said:
You are right and I am wrong...

Human Coronavirus Types | CDC

CDC Human Coronavirus Types: Information about the six types of coronaviruses including MERS-CoV and SARS-CoV.
www.cdc.gov www.cdc.gov
Click to expand...
I also disagree with your point that leadership was wrong at every turn

people continue to look back on past actions with the benefit of current knowledge to judge
something as wrong after the fact, regardless of what we knew and when we knew it

I think your previous post to this effect is a mischaracterization
 
hal9000

hal9000

Duke status
Jan 30, 2016
56,374
16,823
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Urbana, Illinois
Rlacey111 said:
1. This is the 19th Covid.....Is a tiger, that much different from a lion? They both are cats and will kill you in very similar ways. Not to mention, there is strong evidence that this came from a lab. So someone must have been doing research on it if that's the case. If it's not from a lab, it's still the 19th variant of Covid.
Click to expand...

:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

Holy fvck. You can't make this sh!t up.
 
R

Rlacey111

Nep status
Feb 14, 2021
650
458
63
Sharkbiscuit said:
Holy hell, "there is strong evidence it came from a lab" yet we have the data on rate of vaccination among the currently hospitalized and this point of view is nearsighted.

You came up with the hypothetical and didn't like my example of sh!t you cannot concretely know ahead of time.

Judging from the below asking if this thing is different than every other virus ever, in stark contrast to your tiger/lion comparison, and the lab hypothesis having strong evidence yet, ~95%+ of the currently hospitalized are unvaccinated, and the problem is transmission rates among the vaccinated....

rice gave you a simple clear answer. Vaccination drastically cuts your chances of being hospitalized for a disease with an already low fatality rate. That's his definition of done. Somehow that definition isn't good enough, because it's possible for the vaccinated to transmit the disease.

Just make it easier on everyone and say you don't trust the vaccine and you're anti any regulations, instead of manning both the "it could be different from all the others" and "how different is a lion from a tiger" barricades.
Click to expand...

Sharkbiscuit said:
Holy hell, "there is strong evidence it came from a lab" yet we have the data on rate of vaccination among the currently hospitalized and this point of view is nearsighted.

You came up with the hypothetical and didn't like my example of sh!t you cannot concretely know ahead of time.

Judging from the below asking if this thing is different than every other virus ever, in stark contrast to your tiger/lion comparison, and the lab hypothesis having strong evidence yet, ~95%+ of the currently hospitalized are unvaccinated, and the problem is transmission rates among the vaccinated....

rice gave you a simple clear answer. Vaccination drastically cuts your chances of being hospitalized for a disease with an already low fatality rate. That's his definition of done. Somehow that definition isn't good enough, because it's possible for the vaccinated to transmit the disease.

Just make it easier on everyone and say you don't trust the vaccine and you're anti any regulations, instead of manning both the "it could be different from all the others" and "how different is a lion from a tiger" barricades.
Click to expand...

I don't trust this expieremental product they are offering. Im against subverting peoples right to decide to do what is right for them. But, what does that have to do with this virus being different? And the amount of information on the virus.


I was wrong about covid-19 being the 19th variant. Its really the 6th on record. But are the currently hospitalized being infected with covid-21? Is that what the delta variant is? What about the other variants?

No doubt, the expieremental product reduces your chances of becoming seriously ill, if you are at risk of becoming seriously ill , and thats great. But if the virus is still going to spread amongst everyone, shot or no shot, why does someone who is statically not at risk of becoming seriously ill have to take an expieremental medicine?
 
R

Rlacey111

Nep status
Feb 14, 2021
650
458
63
afoaf said:
I also disagree with your point that leadership was wrong at every turn

people continue to look back on past actions with the benefit of current knowledge to judge
something as wrong after the fact, regardless of what we knew and when we knew it

I think your previous post to this effect is a mischaracterization
Click to expand...

I disagree

Would you being saying that if the man in the avatar was still acting president? I'm sure most of the people here who hated him, were pretty critical of the leadership.
 
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