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plant-based vs paleo / carnivore diet
- Thread starter oeste858
- Start date
So you feel that metric is outdated, and you guys feel comfortable to ignore your LDL count if it rises, and discount that as a warning sign of heart disease, etc.? Mine has gone up the past couple years and GP is recommending statins. My Achilles heel is snacks, late night after the wife and kids go to bed and I've having my OesteTime on the couch watching tv.
Otherwise, I generally eat pretty healthy with lean meats and veggies, very little bread, occasional pasta or rice. The bummer with meat is how bad it is to raise/slaughter. The more I know, the less I want to participate. Getting high quality meat/fish that is responsibly raised is pretty damn expensive. Question is how to get enough protein via mainly plant sources, as I don't love beans, legumes, lentils, etc. FWIW, Wife has been trying to eat more plant-based the last few years.
I watched thisYou Are What You Eat: A Twin Experiment Netflix last night. Interesting experiment using twins: one on a vegan/plant-based diet, one on a (healthy) omnivore diet including meat, dairy, eggs. Even after only a couple months, results were pretty surprising, at least to me.
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I think @sh3 might have more to offer than I would. I'm just regurgitating what Dr. Shawn Baker said... and my own experience. But if you listen to #2069 - Dr. Shawn Baker on the The Joe Rogan Show. Right out the gate they start talking about cholesterol and red meat consumption. It's pretty interesting what they are finding and the history of sugar and cholesterol. Fast forward to about 14 min in.
Ill post a link to the show below.
Ill post a link to the show below.
#2069 - Dr. Shawn Baker
Listen to this episode from The Joe Rogan Experience on Spotify. Dr. Shawn Baker is a physician, athlete, author of "The Carnivore Diet," host of "The Dr. Shawn Baker Podcast," and co-founder of online medical clinic Revero. https://carnivore.diet/shawn-baker-links/ Learn more about your ad...
open.spotify.com
thanks. I would say I'm 85-90% paleo as is. I know I really just need to cut out the sugars and processed foods that I indulge myself during evening OesteTime.
Would love to hear from people who follow either strict paleo/carnivore or vegan/plant based diets, and what you find the actual benefits to be on your health how you feel.
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Do not become a vegan. The main benefit of "paleo" is you're not eating processed junk which lowers bodyfat. You can get the same benefits by not eating processed junk.
I think you need to avoid saturated fats. I used to always look at food labels and cholesterol was a red flag, but now I'm more attentive to saturated fat, sugar and sodium. Trans fat is the worst but is mostly absent from things I eat.
My cardiologist still monitors carefully all my lipid numbers.My thresholds are much lower than normal folk because of risk factors (dad died of heart attack, I have myocardial bridge). But cholesterol for the most part cannot be controlled through diet. Don't hesitate to take the statins. Very little side effects and immense benefits from what I understand.
"Dietary cholesterol plays no role in serum cholesterol."
"Saturated fat consumption in many people will raise LDL cholesterol."
After watching "Earthlings" (a behind the scenes look at our food supply that we never really see...shocking) we tried to become vegetarians, or more precisely- ovo-lacto-pescatarians...We lasted for a year but kind of gave up after my daughter was born. Still, beef is like a treat we eat very occasionally, maybe once a week. Always get cage free eggs and chicken. We avoid seafood on the Monterrey Bay Aquarium's "avoid" list.
I get protein at breakfast via peanut butter, "Dave's Bread" from Costco (most protein of any bread), and milk (1%) in my coffee, sometime eggs. Lunch- chicken slices in a sandwich (with Dave's bread), or maybe eggs, left over dinner.Bean or chicken burritos. Dinner- chicken, fish or legumes (wife loves minestrone) and pasta (has some protein- I'm looking for Barilla High Protein pasta suggested here). Occasionally cheese. After dinner snack- mixed nuts (we buy the no salt ones and I add a dash myself), decaf coffee and milk. If I get a craving for sugar I eat Trader Joes O's (like cheerios) with some honey granola on top or. That or fruit. I also drink milk with vegan protein powder after heavy exercise days. I still probably don't get enough protein given how much I exercise.
I think you need to avoid saturated fats. I used to always look at food labels and cholesterol was a red flag, but now I'm more attentive to saturated fat, sugar and sodium. Trans fat is the worst but is mostly absent from things I eat.
My cardiologist still monitors carefully all my lipid numbers. But cholesterol for the most part cannot be controlled through diet.
ps check out the "zone 2" discussion. Zone 2 produces metabolic changes which could be very helpful.
What I've read is that doctors are finding that LDL cholesterol isn't necessarily a sign of coronaries artery disease as long as you don't have high blood pressure, aren't overweight, sugar levels are good, etc.
Matthew Budoff is the cardiologist that is handling the study they talk about in the show. Dr. Baker thinks the study will show that people with high cholesterol, who are otherwise super lean and healthy, when compared to the average population, will have less risk of heart disease. Pretty interesting stuff.
Matthew Budoff is the cardiologist that is handling the study they talk about in the show. Dr. Baker thinks the study will show that people with high cholesterol, who are otherwise super lean and healthy, when compared to the average population, will have less risk of heart disease. Pretty interesting stuff.
Those diets are generally low in anti-nutrients (such as gluten), particularly if seafood is wild caught and meat is grass fed. Anti-nutrients lead to inflammation, which can contribute to hardening of the arteries and cardiovascular disease.
A couple of years ago, before I started avoiding anti-nutrients, I would get achy and sore from surfing a lot and my pop-up was starting to fade. I thought it was just natural aging, but it's not. It was chronic inflammation from anti-nutrients. And I wasn't eating a lot of proceeded junk food but what is usually considered a health diet.
This tells me/us/you that you're experiencing a drop in cortisol. it means you haven't eaten properly or steadily during the day. Your body is craving sugar - sometimes caffeine is the craving - to keep you going when you dip.
Based on just this, I'd bet you have a mid/late morning dip where you get sleepy and grab something - coffee, something processed, whatever - to keep you going. Then in the late afternoon, around 2:30-3:00, you get that same sleepy/tired feeling. Again, that's a cortisol dip. Keep your protein up and eat plenty of veggies, eat throughout the day to satiety, and you can avoid these.
Vegan diets will not provide you with the nearly the quantity of B vitamins and numerous other nutrients your body needs to function optimally. They initially provide those on them with a huge boost of energy and feeling great, as you're no longer feeding your body the crap it previously ingested. But after about 4 months, the course will start reversing to the point of needing major supplementation. A friend of my wife's, a professor at Maryland University, recently said, "The only people who have a chance of pulling off a proper vegan diet are nutritionists."
Note - a nutritionist is NOT a dietician. A dietician looks at food and makes macronutrient suggestions. A nutritionist looks at you and makes micronutrient recommendations and lifestyle changes.
I'm lucky, my wife is a doctor of nutrition, so I get a lot of great advice and information for free. She's seriously a font of information on this subject. She's presently writing a book on the needs of female athletes as these have been overlooked rather significantly for years. As I said, I'm f**king lucky as hell.
Also, pasta is crap. Sorry. I know I'm a heretic.
One last thing on LDL - did you know there are two types? One type is almost soft and fluffy, like cotton candy. If you have a lot of that, it's irrelevant. it bounces around your blood vessels and produces little to no effect. On the other hand, the other type is hard like BB gun pellets. These are dangerous and are oxidation as caused by sugars. That's the type that collects in blood vessels and causes heart attacks, etc. See if your doctor knows the difference and can explain them. If he/she cannot, get a new doctor.
The Twin documentary is propaganda from the same producers as Game Changers. They didn’t control for caloric intake which explains why their numbers may have looked better.
Getting sufficient protein from plant sources is not impossible but it is much tougher. We need a lot more protein than what the RDA recommends.
I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Sounds like a very reasonable portion size.
It sounds good, but where are your vegetables to decrease oxidative stress? You're not in the US, correct? Assuming so, your pasta actually might not be all bad.
Fiber, resistant starches, don't burn your oils causing oxidation, avoid excessive sugars (that's processed food and carbs). Don't ever use seed oils - they're utter crap. Cheap, so always used in restaurants, providing another reason not to waste your $$$ on junk.
ah ok, I couldn't understand what you meant by "pasta is crap" - you mean the commonly available US brands. In the context of a balanced diet it seems like one of the better carbs to me. Here in Australia, durum wheat pasta is the common variety and reasonably low GI. Some of the imported instant noodles sold here are rubbish.It sounds good, but where are your vegetables to decrease oxidative stress? You're not in the US, correct? Assuming so, your pasta actually might not be all bad.
I did say "stir fried veggies" for my example meal
"veggies" is what we call vegetables heredefinitely, I have consulted the nutrient charts and advice such as combine lentils with rice for complete protein ends up with a meal very high in carbs to match a portion of say lean meat and rice. I have an uncommon type of glucose intolerance so that in particular would not suit me as a staple.
It becomes achievable if one limits oneself to soy bean products such as tofu, but that doesn't seem good for getting variety.
