Was telling my wife about this thread and she sent me this:
She's a freaking biochemist. It's awesome.
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plant-based vs paleo / carnivore diet
- Thread starter oeste858
- Start date
I have been trying to unpack the two quotes from sh3 and reforest that you posted in your opening post and I think I am some of the way there with some help from AI.
No sh3 and his doctor of nutrition wife are not saying that on face value - they are saying only get concerned if its the "pellet" consistency that is sending the LDL up. The floss consistency LDL is the one to feel comfortable about. For people like me who don't have access a doc whose clinic can order and interpret "lipoprotein fractionation" the advice he gave me on getting floss up and pellet down appears to be good conventionally accepted - eg canola seed oil is pushed as healthy but ai pointed out its highly processed and subjected to all sorts of heat and chemical treatments. So for me that would mean swapping it for virgin olive oil that I can get in any supermarket - that's going to send HDL up and sit just fine with conventional health guidelines. Also reading between the lines of the snippet posted by sh3's wife its ok to try and get overall LDL down if that's the only LDL number we can get in the absence of a fractionation test.
Regarding the Jupiter study on statins ai pointed out it was done on a group who didn't have cholesterol - it didn't go so far as to say it was bullshit, but my personal reading between the lines of the study suggests to me that it showed statins are good for the heart for people with a specific inflammation marker and no more than that. Although my personal attitude is that doesn't negate other advice on statins. When I got tested my doc told me that my LDL is a bit too high, however various stats such as my high HDL was fed into the heart risk calculator and risk came out low. Statins were not suggested. I am on nuts and seeds as suggested by sh3's wife.
ai sent me a link on the bad effects of sugar oxidising cholesterol - maybe its the oxidising that is bad and not so much the LDL? I don't know. However shunning sugar (again conventionally accepted advice) appears to be the only commonality between Dr Shawn Baker and our in house doctor of nutrition. When I posted my sample meal sh3 said make sure I get vegetables for antioxidising - see conversation above
In contrast the Dr Baker diet shuns all things plant including veggies!Have I got that about right @sh3 and @ReForest ?
Just perused this thread... and as these threads go there's a few things posted here that flat out aren't true.
-Bottom line should be moderation.
-It is so easy to lose and maintain weight at a healthy level: Portion control, whole grains and vegetables, plenty of protein, and stop eating sweets/sugar.
-If you need help with that, or find it still too difficult, control your salt intake to say around 1000 to 1500mg/day. That alone will force you to portion control.
- You're not going to damage your body by eating on the low cholesterol side of things.
Also, if you're getting decent sleep, some tiredness in the early afternoon is normal part of a well regulated circadian rhythm. Your body wants a siesta. A short nap, 10 or 20 minutes, is a good idea. Personally I have found when I am consistently getting a good night's rest and going to sleep/waking up at the same time my body demands a quick nap at this time.
-Bottom line should be moderation.
-It is so easy to lose and maintain weight at a healthy level: Portion control, whole grains and vegetables, plenty of protein, and stop eating sweets/sugar.
-If you need help with that, or find it still too difficult, control your salt intake to say around 1000 to 1500mg/day. That alone will force you to portion control.
- You're not going to damage your body by eating on the low cholesterol side of things.
Also, if you're getting decent sleep, some tiredness in the early afternoon is normal part of a well regulated circadian rhythm. Your body wants a siesta. A short nap, 10 or 20 minutes, is a good idea. Personally I have found when I am consistently getting a good night's rest and going to sleep/waking up at the same time my body demands a quick nap at this time.
These threads tend to bark up the wrong tree entirely:
I'd add, how good is the research behind what a lot of the so-called experts out there are touting? And to what degree are they cherrypicking?
Pretty much everyone is saying something different and they have studies to back it up. To me that says a lot.
My paternal grandparents lived to be 100. My paternal grandfather had only one lung because he contracted pneumonia in a German prison camp in Poland after being shot down in his 13th bombing run over Germany. He also smoked at one point. He never exercised and ate no health foods. He had a Great Depression diet of canned foods, casseroles, and other midwestern crap. My paternal grandmother lived slightly longer and the same way. My maternal grandfather drank and ate too much and died at 87 after a rapid decline following a fall from a ladder (he painted his own house every other year). They all had community: they went to church, veterans meet-ups, or - in the case of my maternal grandfather - were members of social clubs like the Elks.
People carve out a living in the fitness industry by making bold claims that distinguish them from the hundreds of thousands of other people trying to earn a living in the same space. There's not much money in it - Arnold Schwarznegger stopped training people because he realized they don't care about fitness. Guys like Huberman and Attia are a variation on this with a twist - people are afraid of dying so it's easier to sell longevity.
The truth is, we're all going to die sooner rather than later. The question we should be wrestling with is, "What will eternity look like for us?"
I read Attia’s book and what seemed unique in his approach to aging is how he kind of reverse engineers it, determining what you’d like to be able to do at an advanced age and then training to meet that goal. For example, if you want to shortboard at 70 you may have to train to maintain mussel mass, cardiovascular capacity, flexibility, and balance, as well as eat well, in order to have that ability at 70.
I agree it’s a good lifestyle regardless though you may not be fully appreciating the point. You can live to 70 with an unhealthy lifestyle but your capacity for physical activities may be greatly diminished, and you could suffer a lot of pain and other discomforts that could have been avoided.
I haven’t really read everything here but my two cents….
- I just lost about 20 in 9 weeks.
I did it by simply by caloric restriction. I already “exercise” to the point of bodily damage so increasing activity was not an option.
I completely stopped eating dessert foods, sweets, processed foods. No breakfast, no lunch, as much as I can eat for dinner. Meat, potatoes, a bit of green stuff is typical.
I am hungry all the time but have more energy during the day.
- All this talk is about dietary cholesterol is a waste of time. Heart disease is almost entirely genetic. Yolo.
- Listen to whatever @sh3 is saying. I met him person. He’s a stud. He looks fit and healthy and rides very small surfboards. I’m guessing he’s in his mid forties.
If I was gay I’d be parked out in front of his house right now hoping to get a glimpse of him rinsing off his wetsuit.
- I just lost about 20 in 9 weeks.
I did it by simply by caloric restriction. I already “exercise” to the point of bodily damage so increasing activity was not an option.
I completely stopped eating dessert foods, sweets, processed foods. No breakfast, no lunch, as much as I can eat for dinner. Meat, potatoes, a bit of green stuff is typical.
I am hungry all the time but have more energy during the day.
- All this talk is about dietary cholesterol is a waste of time. Heart disease is almost entirely genetic. Yolo.
- Listen to whatever @sh3 is saying. I met him person. He’s a stud. He looks fit and healthy and rides very small surfboards. I’m guessing he’s in his mid forties.
If I was gay I’d be parked out in front of his house right now hoping to get a glimpse of him rinsing off his wetsuit.
I lost 8 pounds in 2 week doing 1100-1600 a day.
I don't feel energized.
I go into fight or flight hard. Lots of food noise.
7 more pounds to go to hit the target weight.
I appreciate the point. I’m 18 months away from 70. You? Remember, you have to live that long to qualify.
Because you immediately eliminate a ton of processed foods, snack foods, foods with sauces, etc.
It will restrict what's available to eat in a good way.
Lunch for me would be broccoli, some whole grain pasta with seasoning, and tuna or chicken.
That's around 400-500 calories.
The tuna or pasta I'd douse in EVOO (I need the calories.) Or I'd add walnuts. Adds 150 cals.
Sodium content around 500mg or less.
Attia is exercising something like 4 hours a day.
The rest of the time he is trying to figure out how to replace calories burned via his restrictive diet.
Not realistic for 95% of people.
I turned 62 last month. Still surf a shortboard comfortably. I'm 5'11, 165 lbs and the last board I got was a 5'10 Pyzel RT and it feels like the perfect size for me. I'm only good for about 2 hours max in the water though, at least in order to fully recover by the next day. Fitness has always been a lifestyle, so my story may add some credence to Attia's work.
Also, as I mentioned in an earlier post, in the last few years I've noticed how dramatic proper nutrition can be for an old active person.