Hawaii- Done

[JSC]

Ka'a'awa is not a predominantly Mormon neighborhood, La'ie is.

Punahou 1841 Buff and Blue nevah teach you dat?

No.

Punahou School 1841 Buff and Blu brah disapproves of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints - heretical doctrines and teachings.

They didn't advocate burning them at the stake, but they did say Mormons were heretics.

I don't believe in any of it, Congregationalist, Mormon, Catholic or any other Christian doctrine, so these teachings were kind of lost on me.

If anything, I would be out there dancing around the bonfire with the half-naked pagans on the solstice.

 

[Pico]

 

[Autoprax]

I find the hypocrisy of tribalism a little irksome.

 

[Autoprax]

If anything, I would be out there dancing around the bonfire with the half-naked pagans on the solstice.

Like Morton at Merrymount.

#metoo

 

[austard]

Aus doco on theft of hawaii. S.R.

 

[JSC]

Yes, Swellnet did a feature on it -

https://www.swellnet.com/news/swellnet-dispatch/2022/05/12/the-fight-take-back-hawaii

As I pointed out in the comments section, it is rather an oversight that the words "crystal methamphetamine" do not appear in the article and presumably, in the documentary either.

Not possible to understand the difficulties, economic and social, in the part-Hawaiian communities in Hawaii without factoring in the enormous amount of damage caused by drug and alcohol abuse, similar to the damage caused in the Aboriginal communities of Australia.

 

[Subway]

Haloes are pretty damn good at destroying our own lives with drugs and alcohol as well, thank you very much. Not saying the natives didn’t get swindled and marginalized, but by no means do they have the monopoly on the unimaginable and uncountable damage drugs and booze have done to nearly every society, like, since man first crushed grape, as the saying goes

 

[JSC]

Haloes are pretty damn good at destroying our own lives with drugs and alcohol as well, thank you very much. Not saying the natives didn’t get swindled and marginalized, but by no means do they have the monopoly on the unimaginable and uncountable damage drugs and booze have done to nearly every society, like, since man first crushed grape, as the saying goes

True, but as seen in Native American, Polynesian and Australian aboriginal communities, alcohol and other drugs like crystal methamphetamine cause more damage than in communities of people whom have had a long relationship with alcohol, having made it and ingested it for millennia.

It's similar to the Guns, Germ and Steel theory - western people have a greater tolerance for substances, having ingested them for thousands of years, compared to people from other cultures, like native American tribal groups, Polynesians and Australian aboriginals who have not.

Of course, Haole can completely mess up their lives and communities with drugs and alcohol - anyone can.

But proportionately, the damage caused by drug and alcohol abuse is greater in other communities, like Polynesians

If the documentary on "Taking Back Hawaii" from the bad American haole doesn't mention drug and alcohol abuse, specifically the widespread use of crystal methamphetamine in Polynesian communities in Hawaii, that is a serious oversight and simply poor journalism.

 

[Subway]

Yeah I’ve always had a high tolerance for all kinds of substances…and I do love my guns, germs, and steel too

 

[bluemarlin04]

True, but as seen in Native American, Polynesian and Australian aboriginal communities, alcohol and other drugs like crystal methamphetamine cause more damage than in communities of people whom have had a long relationship with alcohol, having made it and ingested it for millennia.

It's similar to the Guns, Germ and Steel theory - western people have a greater tolerance for substances, having ingested them for thousands of years, compared to people from other cultures, like native American tribal groups, Polynesians and Australian aboriginals who have not.

Of course, Haole can completely mess up their lives and communities with drugs and alcohol - anyone can.

But proportionately, the damage caused by drug and alcohol abuse is greater in other communities, like Polynesians

If the documentary on "Taking Back Hawaii" from the bad American haole doesn't mention drug and alcohol abuse, specifically the widespread use of crystal methamphetamine in Polynesian communities in Hawaii, that is a serious oversight and simply poor journalism.

Also would like to add many marginalized populations turn to drugs because they feel forgotten and then begin to believe that their social contracts with society means less leading to crime.

 

[youcantbeserious]

Turn to da imu

Guns Germs and Steel is trash pop anthropology

 

[Mr Doof]

Guns Germs and Steel is trash pop anthropology

After reading the book, I thought these three things combined could accurately explain 85-90% of how our present civilization structure came to be. ( It is possible this percentage could decrease but I don't have the chops to winnow it out.)

And as we all know, sometimes, it is the smaller unaccounted for things that act as multipliers on the bigger things.

But really, what I thought was best about this book is that it made the subject of "how we got to be the way we are now" approachable for non-sociologies majors.

Hopefully that makes up for some of the scholarly deficits.

 

[bluemarlin04]

I’m not super up on the book. But did he have an actual research methodology or was it mostly anecdotal

 

[youcantbeserious]

I was a little harsh, it's an okay book, it just reduces all human behavior to geographic determinism, presenting an argument that is reductive and overly simplistic and in many cases, based on some pretty bad history (or just leaving stuff out for the sake of his argument). But it is engagingly written and like Mr.Doof says, got a lot of people interested in world history, so that is a huge win. And a huge financial windfall for Professor Diamond.

 

[racer1]

The book was everywhere when I was in college. All the rage. In hindsight it’s a bit narrow, but I liked reading it and discussing it in class and I never liked World History before it.

 

[youcantbeserious]

 

[racer1]

Aunty down the street gave me 9 mangos. NINE!
Hawaii not done yet.

 

[JSC]

The book was everywhere when I was in college. All the rage. In hindsight it’s a bit narrow, but I liked reading it and discussing it in class and I never liked World History before it.

If Professor Diamond's books get people to read, ask questions and discuss world history and "why we are the way we are" then he is doing his job -

Now about his grim and gruesome conclusions in "Collapse", about Rapa Nui (Easter Island), that the locals denuded the island of resources; specifically trees, in their mania to raise more and bigger mo'ai statues and subsequently began to starve with cannibalism the choice of those who wanted to be the last to die . . . some of the contemporary Chilean citizens of Rapa Nui were very offended.

To be fair, the grim demise of the Viking settlements in Greenland were even worse.

 

[PRCD]

The problem with his books is that they’re politically correct “just so” stories that ignore a ton of other inconvenient data.

 

[youcantbeserious]

The problem with his books is that they’re politically correct “just so” stories that ignore a ton of other inconvenient data.

What makes them "politically correct?" The problem is that Diamond is a geographer by training, and reduces just about everything to geography. When he ignores evidence, it is usually just history arguments that go against a geographic determinist sort of conclusion. He does very little work with primary sources himself, he just uses (or ignores) the arguments and research of other historians.

It's not about politics. Unless of course you make it that way.