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Breaking down various EPS/alt constructions
- Thread starter hotCheetos
- Start date
Legacy is best for step ups, good wave shortboards and cruisers in my opinion. I wouldn't recommend on a fish or groveler. I had two, a 6'5 2x4 and a 5'10 pug nose something, they both felt so smooth. Like driving a Cadillac, but didn't feel like they had that get up and go explosiveness of CFT.
6'5 Stretch 2x4 Legacy
6'5 Stretch 2x4 Legacy
I've gone down the alt build rabbit hole.
XTR: only tried stringered 7.C and 8.0 and 8.C. They are a bit stiff but I like the durability and confidence I feel on them. Like riding a skateboard with stiff trucks. I prefer the builds for good wave shortboards and step ups.
SuperFlex (from Super Brand): similar to FF from Hayden but with the fishnet stockings on the bottom. I really like this build. Feels like so much pop and durability is amazing. My preferred groveler construction. Would order a regular shortboard in this construction if Super had a regular looking shortboard that interested me. I am interested in ordering a Hayden Untitled, but his pricing is high.
Stretch: I discussed Legacy in the post above but I also really LOVE CFT. It works in windy waves and has a lot of pop. Durability is amazing. Currently have a Mr Buzz on order should be done soon. Will probably order a Superbuzz or Buzzsaw next year in CFT. I really like the pop and overall feel.
FCD: I think they use XPS foam and glass it 3 x 4oz deck with 2 x 4oz bottom. I like them for step ups. Have two F-Rockets in stepup size that I really like. They are known for delams on the deck where your feet normally go. I've had one delam and I just poked a hole in the delam. While I'm surfing I just let water go in and out of there lol. It's only like the circumference of a golf ball so not much water can get in there and the foam is water proof so whateever. It's in the middle of the deck so I doubt there's much structural compromise. I don't want to fix it cause the foam will just gas out somewhere else and pop goes the weasel.
Surftech x Sharp Eye Fusion E2: Construction felt really good but I didn't click with the shape. Lots of pop. I think it's like a carbon weaved composite? Not sure, EPS core though. Flex felt great. Would buy again in a different shape.
Firewire LFT: Tried an Evo in this construction. Felt okay. But also felt way too soft or flexible. Felt like it might break? Sold it when I felt it kinda buckle on a wave. Wouldn't mind trying Helium. Also will most likely buy an Aipa whenever Firewire releases one.
Epoxy on PU: Felt good but squishy. Lots of dents. Board looked fuct after a couple months. Hard to resell that one.
Coil: I really like coil but was hard to get sizing right for me. Only ordered one and it came out way big. I did like the feeling and durability felt good, but didn't reorder to get sizing right. Also it looked pretty weird, people would always be commenting about it. I like to not be noticed lol.
Libtech: Borrowed a friends RNF for one session. Felt way too heavy for me. Flext felt interesting but damn it was heavy.
EPS Stringered: I actually hate EPS stringered 4x4 deck / 4 bottom. Too light. Too much chatter. Gross.
Heavily glassed stringered EPS: 6x4 deck and 4x4 bottom, tried something similar to FCD. Worked pretty good. Feels a bit stiff but has a lot of pop. I kept this board and it feels indestructible. Feels good in wind.
Good Old PU: I've since gone back to order regular ass PU. A local glasser shapes boards on the side for $375. He makes two shapes I like: a groveler and a HPSB. I have one of each in my dims. They will probably lose flex in a year but they feel great now. I honestly got tired of taking losses on alt builds, so I got these to have as backups to my existing alt builds that I like. When these eventually lose pop I can sell em quick for $100-$150 and not take too much of a loss.
XTR: only tried stringered 7.C and 8.0 and 8.C. They are a bit stiff but I like the durability and confidence I feel on them. Like riding a skateboard with stiff trucks. I prefer the builds for good wave shortboards and step ups.
SuperFlex (from Super Brand): similar to FF from Hayden but with the fishnet stockings on the bottom. I really like this build. Feels like so much pop and durability is amazing. My preferred groveler construction. Would order a regular shortboard in this construction if Super had a regular looking shortboard that interested me. I am interested in ordering a Hayden Untitled, but his pricing is high.
Stretch: I discussed Legacy in the post above but I also really LOVE CFT. It works in windy waves and has a lot of pop. Durability is amazing. Currently have a Mr Buzz on order should be done soon. Will probably order a Superbuzz or Buzzsaw next year in CFT. I really like the pop and overall feel.
FCD: I think they use XPS foam and glass it 3 x 4oz deck with 2 x 4oz bottom. I like them for step ups. Have two F-Rockets in stepup size that I really like. They are known for delams on the deck where your feet normally go. I've had one delam and I just poked a hole in the delam. While I'm surfing I just let water go in and out of there lol. It's only like the circumference of a golf ball so not much water can get in there and the foam is water proof so whateever. It's in the middle of the deck so I doubt there's much structural compromise. I don't want to fix it cause the foam will just gas out somewhere else and pop goes the weasel.
Surftech x Sharp Eye Fusion E2: Construction felt really good but I didn't click with the shape. Lots of pop. I think it's like a carbon weaved composite? Not sure, EPS core though. Flex felt great. Would buy again in a different shape.
Firewire LFT: Tried an Evo in this construction. Felt okay. But also felt way too soft or flexible. Felt like it might break? Sold it when I felt it kinda buckle on a wave. Wouldn't mind trying Helium. Also will most likely buy an Aipa whenever Firewire releases one.
Epoxy on PU: Felt good but squishy. Lots of dents. Board looked fuct after a couple months. Hard to resell that one.
Coil: I really like coil but was hard to get sizing right for me. Only ordered one and it came out way big. I did like the feeling and durability felt good, but didn't reorder to get sizing right. Also it looked pretty weird, people would always be commenting about it. I like to not be noticed lol.
Libtech: Borrowed a friends RNF for one session. Felt way too heavy for me. Flext felt interesting but damn it was heavy.
EPS Stringered: I actually hate EPS stringered 4x4 deck / 4 bottom. Too light. Too much chatter. Gross.
Heavily glassed stringered EPS: 6x4 deck and 4x4 bottom, tried something similar to FCD. Worked pretty good. Feels a bit stiff but has a lot of pop. I kept this board and it feels indestructible. Feels good in wind.
Good Old PU: I've since gone back to order regular ass PU. A local glasser shapes boards on the side for $375. He makes two shapes I like: a groveler and a HPSB. I have one of each in my dims. They will probably lose flex in a year but they feel great now. I honestly got tired of taking losses on alt builds, so I got these to have as backups to my existing alt builds that I like. When these eventually lose pop I can sell em quick for $100-$150 and not take too much of a loss.
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This post makes wading through all the other BS on the erBB worth it.
After all that, my conclusion is:
1. Stretch CFT
2. SuperFlex / FF
3*.
4. PU ( I CAN'T QUIT YOU )
5. XTR / FCD / COIL (three way tie)
*(1 & 2 are so far ahead, I had to leave 3 blank)
I added up all I spent, deducted what I resold, looked at the number once and then threw the paper away. Don't ask.
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If we're talking about PU from a shaper that also does XTR, then I go with XTR considering the price (e.g. Pyzel XTR and PU are almost same price).
If we are factoring in price:
1. Stretch CFT
2. Superflex / FF
3. XTR
4. PU
5. FCD / Coil / Fusion E2
If we are factoring in price:
1. Stretch CFT
2. Superflex / FF
3. XTR
4. PU
5. FCD / Coil / Fusion E2
I keep taking losses on EPS builds.
I mean I just ate a 1600 dollar loss.
I learned the hard way that a lot of glassers don’t know what they’re doing when it comes to EPS builds.
Had a sick little asym mini Simmons eps build. Thing was light and surfed fucking awesome.
It seriously lasted like 5 months.
I keep taking losses so I’m convinced that gotta just spend the extra and get STRETCH.
I mean I just ate a 1600 dollar loss.
I learned the hard way that a lot of glassers don’t know what they’re doing when it comes to EPS builds.
Had a sick little asym mini Simmons eps build. Thing was light and surfed fucking awesome.
It seriously lasted like 5 months.
I keep taking losses so I’m convinced that gotta just spend the extra and get STRETCH.
The infinity I have is eco build.
Surfs good and feels real nice.
The full carbon EPS one I sold. That one surfed real good too.
I bought two and figured which one I preferred. I liked the eco build EPS with bamboo skin
Mine would be something like this:
1) XTR - They just have an extra spring out of turns I haven't felt from anything else. The durability to cost ratio is outstanding. They work in big or small waves, have a good weight to them, and tons of build options with stringer less, stringered, carbon, ect.... If there is a knock to them it's that I only like surfing them when the conditions are smooth. I don't like them in chop for some reason.
2) FF - I've become a big fan of this construction. It's light, durable, and feels really nice. It feels a lot better than XTR in bumpy conditions to me and is my go to board if there's some texture on the water. It's a very close second behind XTR. I think the construction is great for grovelers and hpsb's, but I get the sense it would be too light for step-ups.
3) Stringered EPS/Epoxy - I've had plenty of great standard EPS/Epoxy builds. I prefer it over PU/PE due to weight, feel, and durability.
4) LFT - Kind of reminds me of something between EPS and PU. Has a little weight to it. Not super light. Does good in choppy conditions. I'd just rather buy boards from a shaper.
5) PU/PE - Feels ok at first but looses its spark too quickly. For small wave / hpsb boards I need something durable. A durable PU/PE often feels too heavily glassed for my taste so I'm left with the choice of it being durable, but heavy or light, but disposable. Great for step-ups though.
6) Helium - Didn't like it. Felt like a ping pong ball. Too stiff.
7) PU/Epoxy - By far the least durable construction I've ever owned. Had to fix this board constantly. Could not keep it water-tight. The board surfed fine, but was wrecked in a short couple of months.
1) XTR - They just have an extra spring out of turns I haven't felt from anything else. The durability to cost ratio is outstanding. They work in big or small waves, have a good weight to them, and tons of build options with stringer less, stringered, carbon, ect.... If there is a knock to them it's that I only like surfing them when the conditions are smooth. I don't like them in chop for some reason.
2) FF - I've become a big fan of this construction. It's light, durable, and feels really nice. It feels a lot better than XTR in bumpy conditions to me and is my go to board if there's some texture on the water. It's a very close second behind XTR. I think the construction is great for grovelers and hpsb's, but I get the sense it would be too light for step-ups.
3) Stringered EPS/Epoxy - I've had plenty of great standard EPS/Epoxy builds. I prefer it over PU/PE due to weight, feel, and durability.
4) LFT - Kind of reminds me of something between EPS and PU. Has a little weight to it. Not super light. Does good in choppy conditions. I'd just rather buy boards from a shaper.
5) PU/PE - Feels ok at first but looses its spark too quickly. For small wave / hpsb boards I need something durable. A durable PU/PE often feels too heavily glassed for my taste so I'm left with the choice of it being durable, but heavy or light, but disposable. Great for step-ups though.
6) Helium - Didn't like it. Felt like a ping pong ball. Too stiff.
7) PU/Epoxy - By far the least durable construction I've ever owned. Had to fix this board constantly. Could not keep it water-tight. The board surfed fine, but was wrecked in a short couple of months.
No I'd put it above Futureflex and most of the other perimeter stringer constructions.
It's hard for me to be objective about the construction if I don't like the design. The Stretch's I've owned just never completely won me over. Whether that is design or construction, I don't know. I never broke one and they felt durable but they're not indestructible. I managed to ding and dent them and they yellowed just like most boards. I have friends who ride them and they last for a long time so I do think the value is there despite the high price. I used to get a deal on these but shipping was always pretty rough.
Same kinda deal with Futureflex. Psychedelic Germ was such an inconsistent love/hate relationship for me and it's one of the only FF boards I've owned so it's hard for me to rate the construction highly. My good buddy rides a Hypto a ton and other than having fcs2 fins spontaneously eject every so often he has no complaints and he surfs it well.
Epoxy over PU is one I actually really liked. I didn't have the crazy denting jkb mentions above but I could see that being a problem if you went too light with the blank or didn't get a good cure on the epoxy. I had a few Allan Gibbons in this construction and while I don't know if they really lasted better than a standard PU/PE they definitely felt great. I did snap one when I landed with my knee on the deck in dredging barrels. I don't order these any more because it adds to wait time and cost.
Great info!
Hey, could you expand on your experience with the germ? I'm interested in getting one. Looks like it would be a good paddler and handle chop well, but still perform. What was your experience?
My experience was that it didn't like waves without good curve. The swooping nose rocker felt like it plowed water and it didn't catch waves as well as I'd hoped. Where it felt best for me was in dumpy beach break waves with steep, bowling faces. I had expected it to be more of an all rounder with good low end but it felt like just a HPSB with some weird design quirks to work out. It was good for surfing vertically on a steep wave but didn't feel great when the waves started running, I just wasn't able to get as much drive as I was hoping and combined with the inability to catch waves early I felt like I was blowing more waves than I cared for. I had a few solid sessions in the right conditions, one in particular on a chest high wedging left where I was able to get some good vertical snaps in the pocket. I also had some shockers where I just couldn't get anything going. Last time I rode it was in a fast, chest high running right with kind of a sloped face and a high pocket. I could not get it to drive around sections for the life of me, let alone get out on the face for a turn. Went in a grabbed my Pyzel Shadow and had a great session.
There was something I liked about the board which is why I gave it so many chances but ultimately I couldn't handle the inconsistency. The wide-ish nose and thickness forward make me think it would drive off the front foot but it felt like it just plowed. Maybe for someone else it would work better but I just couldn't seem to find the sweet spot often enough.
PU/Epoxy always surfs good but the durability is inconsistent, i purchased a PU/Epoxy maurice cole from a member on the forum and it dents like no board ive ever seen. It is so soft that there is pressure dents from where i grab on to duck dive. In saying that the board surfs AMAZING!
The PE/Epoxy from hayden shapes always looks good and super clean.
I like traditional PU. I wouldn't mind paying for them if they didn't lose their pop. Durability doesn't bother me that much. I just wish they didn't feel dead after a certain amount of time.