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Electric vehicle fuel

N

npsp

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plasticbertrand said:
It's a diesel.
It needs diesel to run.
Cannot run without diesel.

There are no electrified train tracks anywhere.
Click to expand...
Light rail runs on train tracks and is almost all electric. Light rail makes up a lot of miles of railway.
All "electric" trains are powered by another source (power plant). Diesel Electric locomotives are designed to carry their own power plant.
Be it coal, nat. gas, hydro, nuke, sun, wind, etc.... the juice has to come from somewhere. Sun and wind (and if droughts persist, hydro) are intermittent so unless we build more nuke plants you're going to have to burn something to power trains.

Please don't try to compare the US to Europe when it comes to hauling freight by rail. In the US our railroads were built to haul freight and in Europe, railroads were built to haul people. And, unlike in the US, which is a huge country and has standardized rail gauge, in Europe, rail gauge and electric power supply varies county to country. Very little freight is hauled in Europe by train as a result.
 
plasticbertrand

plasticbertrand

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Jan 12, 2009
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npsp said:
Light rail runs on train tracks and is almost all electric. Light rail makes up a lot of miles of railway.
All "electric" trains are powered by another source (power plant). Diesel Electric locomotives are designed to carry their own power plant.
Be it coal, nat. gas, hydro, nuke, sun, wind, etc.... the juice has to come from somewhere. Sun and wind (and if droughts persist, hydro) are intermittent so unless we build more nuke plants you're going to have to burn something to power trains.

Please don't try to compare the US to Europe when it comes to hauling freight by rail. In the US our railroads were built to haul freight and in Europe, railroads were built to haul people. And, unlike in the US, which is a huge country and has standardized rail gauge, in Europe, rail gauge and electric power supply varies county to country. Very little freight is hauled in Europe by train as a result.
Click to expand...
It's disingenuous to compare electric trains to diesel trains because they are powered by a "power plant".
Burning diesel on board and receiving electricity from variety of energy sources is apples and oranges.

We are talking about electrified train tracks.
They are almost non existent in the US.
The fact that US trains carry more freight in comparison to the European ones, is only one more reason to have them electrified.

Which light train other than San Diego city trollie is electric?

I've never seen electrified train tracks outside city transport anywhere in the US.
 
N

npsp

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plasticbertrand said:
It's disingenuous to compare electric trains to diesel trains because they are powered by a "power plant".
Burning diesel on board and receiving electricity from variety of energy sources is apples and oranges.

We are talking about electrified train tracks.
They are almost non existent in the US.
The fact that US trains carry more freight in comparison to the European ones, is only one more reason to have them electrified.

Which light train other than San Diego city trollie is electric?

I've never seen electrified train tracks outside city transport anywhere in the US.
Click to expand...
The power has to be generated and distributed one way or another. Stop calling them Diesel trains. They are called Diesel Electric locomotives for a reason. They are powered by electric motors.

The vast majority of people hauling light rail in the US is powered by electricity. Light rail "trollies" are trains. I may be mistaken but several Amtrack lines in the Northeast are electric (that 1% you mentioned).

Define "electrified train track". The track itself is not electrified. There can be a 3rd electrified rail or overhead electric lines. The rails that the train runs on are not electrified. If you know of an electrified train track, please enlighten me.

In many parts of Europe, the freight that is hauled via train is hauled with Diesel Electric locomotives. They share track space with people hauling electric trains powered by overhead lines. Freight tends to weigh more than people requiring more horsepower per car.

It will take A LOT of juice to power a 7,500' long double stacked fully electric freight train. Where are you going to find that juice in the middle of Kansas or Wyoming?
 
plasticbertrand

plasticbertrand

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npsp said:
The power has to be generated and distributed one way or another. Stop calling them Diesel trains. They are called Diesel Electric locomotives for a reason. They are powered by electric motors.

The vast majority of people hauling light rail in the US is powered by electricity. Light rail "trollies" are trains. I may be mistaken but several Amtrack lines in the Northeast are electric (that 1% you mentioned).

Define "electrified train track". The track itself is not electrified. There can be a 3rd electrified rail or overhead electric lines. The rails that the train runs on are not electrified. If you know of an electrified train track, please enlighten me.

In many parts of Europe, the freight that is hauled via train is hauled with Diesel Electric locomotives. They share track space with people hauling electric trains powered by overhead lines. Freight tends to weigh more than people requiring more horsepower per car.

It will take A LOT of juice to power a 7,500' long double stacked fully electric freight train. Where are you going to find that juice in the middle of Kansas or Wyoming?
Click to expand...
They are powered by diesel power generators which power the electric motors. That is no different than a diesel train.

Their efficiency and energy consumption is nowhere near the actual electric trains.

And by electric train tracks, I didn't mean literally track. :foreheadslap:
The train track is electrified when it has overhead lines. That's part of the track.

Anyways. This is a silly argument.
The locomotives in the photo were not. electric.
We all know what electric locomotives look like.
1659066734685.jpeg
 
Lance Mannion

Lance Mannion

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Mar 7, 2009
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In Gods Country
plasticbertrand said:
They are powered by diesel power generators which power the electric motors. That is no different than a diesel train.

Their efficiency and energy consumption is nowhere near the actual electric trains.

And by electric train tracks, I didn't mean literally track. :foreheadslap:
The train track is electrified when it has overhead lines. That's part of the track.

Anyways. This is a silly argument.
The locomotives in the photo were not. electric.
We all know what electric locomotives look like.
View attachment 134808
Click to expand...
…and the Electricity for Actual Electric Trains comes straight from the asses of 100% sustainable-carbon neutral-responsibly grown Electric Unicorns.
 
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N

npsp

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plasticbertrand said:
They are powered by diesel power generators which power the electric motors. That is no different than a diesel train.

Their efficiency and energy consumption is nowhere near the actual electric trains.

And by electric train tracks, I didn't mean literally track. :foreheadslap:
The train track is electrified when it has overhead lines. That's part of the track.

Anyways. This is a silly argument.
The locomotives in the photo were not. electric.
We all know what electric locomotives look like.
View attachment 134808
Click to expand...
Yes, you finally admit that electric motors power the train. The diesel generator is just a mobile power plant providing the electricity to run the electric motors that move the train. Because of the vastness of the US there are huge portions of our country with no power lines or other sources of electricity of sufficient capacity to power freight locomotives so they have to bring their source of electricity with them.
Where does the electricity that powers the electric motors driving the train in the picture you posted come from? Coal, oil, nat. gas, nuke, wind, solar? Probably a combo of some or all. None of these are truly clean energy. Even nuke has a big carbon footprint is you factor in all of the concrete and steel and other metals that go in the construction of the plant. China has a very complex electric rail system. It's powered by burning very dirty coal.....
 
S

StuAzole

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Jan 22, 2016
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Mike_Jones said:
.
www.theamericanconservative.com

Electric Vehicles Cost More than You Think

Conservative defenders of EVs must be realistic about the technology's costs and the way those costs have been buried by EV boosters.
www.theamericanconservative.com www.theamericanconservative.com


.
Click to expand...
LOL.

Notice they didn't tell you what gas prices were? I think they assumed $2.81/gallon. LOL.

Their charge price assumption is over double what I currently pay at home ($.10/kwh). I've owned my EV for a few months and haven't used a commercial charger yet.

Charger comes with the car. It cost me just $450 to have an electrician install a level 2 outlet.

No discussion of maintenance, oil, etc. benefits of an EV?

But don't buy one if you don't want one. Nobody is forcing you to.

Derp.
 
M

Mike_Jones

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Mar 5, 2009
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StuAzole said:
LOL.

Notice they didn't tell you what gas prices were? I think they assumed $2.81/gallon. LOL.

Their charge price assumption is over double what I currently pay at home ($.10/kwh). I've owned my EV for a few months and haven't used a commercial charger yet.

Charger comes with the car. It cost me just $450 to have an electrician install a level 2 outlet.

No discussion of maintenance, oil, etc. benefits of an EV?

But don't buy one if you don't want one. Nobody is forcing you to.

Derp.
Click to expand...


Gee, How did gasoline get to be so expensive? Oh wait. It was the guy you support.


www.usatoday.com

Keystone pipeline canceled after Biden had permit blocked

Calgary-based TC Energy said it would work with government agencies “to ensure a safe termination of and exit from” the partially built line.
www.usatoday.com

www.cbsnews.com

Biden administration cancels Alaska oil and gas lease sale

The Interior Department's decision to not move forward with the lease sale comes as gas prices soar.
www.cbsnews.com www.cbsnews.com


Biden Cancels Offshore Oil Lease Sales in Gulf Coast, Alaska


www.nationalreview.com

Yes, Biden Wants to End Fracking | National Review

Even if the media say otherwise.
www.nationalreview.com www.nationalreview.com
.
 
plasticbertrand

plasticbertrand

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npsp said:
Yes, you finally admit that electric motors power the train. The diesel generator is just a mobile power plant providing the electricity to run the electric motors that move the train. Because of the vastness of the US there are huge portions of our country with no power lines or other sources of electricity of sufficient capacity to power freight locomotives so they have to bring their source of electricity with them.
Where does the electricity that powers the electric motors driving the train in the picture you posted come from? Coal, oil, nat. gas, nuke, wind, solar? Probably a combo of some or all. None of these are truly clean energy. Even nuke has a big carbon footprint is you factor in all of the concrete and steel and other metals that go in the construction of the plant. China has a very complex electric rail system. It's powered by burning very dirty coal.....
Click to expand...
Again, not the same, burning diesel on board to power electric motor and getting power from multiple energy sources to power a truly electric train.

Efficiency and oil consumption is not even in the same ballpark. it's a disengenius argument to equate the two.

40% of all energy in the US comes from renewables/nuclear, so even if you assume that they consume equal amount of energy (they don't), electric trains are still cleaner and more efficient.

apples =\= oranges
 
S

StuAzole

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Jan 22, 2016
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GromsDad said:
View attachment 134996
Click to expand...

Well if Mike Artrip says it’s true on Facebook…

I took a look at SDG&E and only about 3% of their energy is coal generated. Solar, wind and natural gas, on the other hand, account for about 75%. Hydroelectric is another 10%.

I think Mike may be slanting a bit.

ps, this is what Alberta’s oil sands look like. Did your Facebook friend do a breakdown on materials, pollutants etc for this?
1659283321402.jpeg
 
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plasticbertrand

plasticbertrand

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StuAzole said:
Well if Mike Artrip says it’s true on Facebook…

I took a look at SDG&E and only about 3% of their energy is coal generated. Solar, wind and natural gas, on the other hand, account for about 75%. Hydroelectric is another 10%.

I think Mike may be slanting a bit.

ps, this is what Alberta’s oil sands look like. Did your Facebook friend do a breakdown on materials, pollutants etc for this?
View attachment 135001
Click to expand...
GrossDad did his own research and concluded that fracking and oil drilling is harmless.

Lithium mining however is very bad.

Especially if you ignore the fact that a lithium battery lasts a long time while oil burns into the thin air the moment you put it in your car.

He has his own facts.

Your facts are no good.
 
Autoprax

Autoprax

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Jan 24, 2011
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I don't get way you can't get a single seat high milage car.

Basically a motor cycle with a roll cage and air bag.

I would be all over that
 
hammies

hammies

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Apr 8, 2006
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Careful when citing Mike Artrip. Gotta get your game on if you want to roll the erBB!

1659292218687.png
 
hammies

hammies

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Apr 8, 2006
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California's 2 largest electric companies, Southern California Edison (15 million customers) and PG&E (5 million customers) get exactly zero energy from coal.

California has the most EVs in the country.
 
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