Covid Skepticism

VaB

Michael Peterson status
Nov 14, 2004
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I think skepticism is good and helps to question what is really going on but I think this is real. Remember the entire goal is not to prevent spread but to SLOW spread to try and get a vaccine made, to work on treatments, so we don't need 140 ICU beds and have 20. Watch NY and see how it goes.This is being run by doctors and healthcare officials and while a massive schema certainly is possible ( although it seems really hard given the international agreement) I don't think that is what is going on here.

Also consider antigenic shift vs antigenic drift. Consider the mortality of each condition not just the overall numbers of death and the contagiousness. Compared to the flu, the problem is you could get it and not really know it and then pass it to your dad and there is a good chance that could be fatal. This is very contagious before symptoms start, so people may pass it on without yet knowing they are sick.
 
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sozzle

Michael Peterson status
Feb 23, 2009
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a skeptic thread without talk about event 201 is useless... so errrrr, like, the global government organisations all met and went through a 'theoretical' simulation of almost literally what is happening now, months before it happened...

About the Event 201 exercise
Event 201 was a 3.5-hour pandemic tabletop exercise that simulated a series of dramatic, scenario-based facilitated discussions, confronting difficult, true-to-life dilemmas associated with response to a hypothetical, but scientifically plausible, pandemic. 15 global business, government, and public health leaders were players in the simulation exercise that highlighted unresolved real-world policy and economic issues that could be solved with sufficient political will, financial investment, and attention now and in the future.

When/where
Friday, October 18, 2019
8:45 a.m. – 12:30 p.m.
The Pierre hotel
New York, NY


The Event 201 scenario
Event 201 simulates an outbreak of a novel zoonotic coronavirus transmitted from bats to pigs to people that eventually becomes efficiently transmissible from person to person, leading to a severe pandemic. The pathogen and the disease it causes are modeled largely on SARS, but it is more transmissible in the community setting by people with mild symptoms.

The disease starts in pig farms in Brazil, quietly and slowly at first, but then it starts to spread more rapidly in healthcare settings. When it starts to spread efficiently from person to person in the low-income, densely packed neighborhoods of some of the megacities in South America, the epidemic explodes. It is first exported by air travel to Portugal, the United States, and China and then to many other countries. Although at first some countries are able to control it, it continues to spread and be reintroduced, and eventually no country can maintain control.

There is no possibility of a vaccine being available in the first year. There is a fictional antiviral drug that can help the sick but not significantly limit spread of the disease.

Since the whole human population is susceptible, during the initial months of the pandemic, the cumulative number of cases increases exponentially, doubling every week. And as the cases and deaths accumulate, the economic and societal consequences become increasingly severe.

The scenario ends at the 18-month point, with 65 million deaths. The pandemic is beginning to slow due to the decreasing number of susceptible people. The pandemic will continue at some rate until there is an effective vaccine or until 80-90 % of the global population has been exposed. From that point on, it is likely to be an endemic childhood disease.
 
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GromsDad

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Jan 21, 2014
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Panic about this virus is the newest form of virtue signaling. Read the replies to news stories on social media and you will see what I mean. Now you have beaches being closed not because it has any effect on reducing the spread of the virus but rather because a bunch of miserable busy body complainers are complaining that people are on the beach.
 

GromsDad

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a skeptic thread without talk about event 201 is useless... so errrrr, like, the global government organisations all met and went through a 'theoretical' simulation of almost literally what is happening now, months before it happened...

About the Event 201 exercise
Event 201 was a 3.5-hour pandemic tabletop exercise that simulated a series of dramatic, scenario-based facilitated discussions, confronting difficult, true-to-life dilemmas associated with response to a hypothetical, but scientifically plausible, pandemic. 15 global business, government, and public health leaders were players in the simulation exercise that highlighted unresolved real-world policy and economic issues that could be solved with sufficient political will, financial investment, and attention now and in the future.

When/where
Friday, October 18, 2019
8:45 a.m. – 12:30 p.m.
The Pierre hotel
New York, NY


The Event 201 scenario
Event 201 simulates an outbreak of a novel zoonotic coronavirus transmitted from bats to pigs to people that eventually becomes efficiently transmissible from person to person, leading to a severe pandemic. The pathogen and the disease it causes are modeled largely on SARS, but it is more transmissible in the community setting by people with mild symptoms.

The disease starts in pig farms in Brazil, quietly and slowly at first, but then it starts to spread more rapidly in healthcare settings. When it starts to spread efficiently from person to person in the low-income, densely packed neighborhoods of some of the megacities in South America, the epidemic explodes. It is first exported by air travel to Portugal, the United States, and China and then to many other countries. Although at first some countries are able to control it, it continues to spread and be reintroduced, and eventually no country can maintain control.

There is no possibility of a vaccine being available in the first year. There is a fictional antiviral drug that can help the sick but not significantly limit spread of the disease.

Since the whole human population is susceptible, during the initial months of the pandemic, the cumulative number of cases increases exponentially, doubling every week. And as the cases and deaths accumulate, the economic and societal consequences become increasingly severe.

The scenario ends at the 18-month point, with 65 million deaths. The pandemic is beginning to slow due to the decreasing number of susceptible people. The pandemic will continue at some rate until there is an effective vaccine or until 80-90 % of the global population has been exposed. From that point on, it is likely to be an endemic childhood disease.
What I find most interesting about this is the heavy involvement of Johns Hopkins University in the Event 21. Another story I was reading about Event 21 was touting the great contributions JHU had made to the project.

From the very beginning of this I've been troubled by the widely pushed world map that Johns Hopkins has on the web that most news sources point people to. They've now changed the map to make it less sensational......probably due to criticism......but up until yesterday it displayed the world in a manner that was to me irresponsible. The map is created in a way that would scare the sh!t out of anyone especially before they dialed it back in the last couple of days. It showed these huge red circles over areas giving the impression that there were massive outbreaks yet if you drilled down in reality there were only a handful or a couple of hundred cases even though the area is a population center of millions and millions of people. Its as if this map was created specifically to create panic.

I'm not saying its a conspiracy but I also don't believe in coincidences. This panic is being created and pushed in a certain direction but is it a case of overhype and are there other motives at play?

If you haven't seen the map I speak of it is at the following link. Had you gone there a couple of days ago the scale on the red circles was about 5X to 10X the size they are today. Guessing someone in the Statistics Department at Johns Hopkins told them how irresponsibly dishonest with the statistics their graph was so they dialed it back.

 

Ranga

Billy Hamilton status
Dec 31, 2008
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Olympic Village could be a hotspot in a couple months. Heard those athletes aren't good social distancers!
Or will the world cancelling them?
Japan has to have alot invested in them going on as planned, any redos allowed?
I would love to roll around Olympic Village, just to watch. Beautiful, young, fit, genetically superior alphas lying in writhing, sweaty, carnal piles everywhere.
 

bluemarlin04

Michael Peterson status
Aug 13, 2015
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I think people are failing to realize they’re concerned about the virus overwhelming the medical system and spreading rapidly with no way to stop it.

I don’t think it’s fake at all and will prob crush the economy
 

Peter1

Nep status
Jul 29, 2005
755
216
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I totally understand the skepticism. It's surreal to go outside when the sun is shining, waves are pumping and you feel just fine.

No one is saying Covid-19 is like Ebola -- it's not going to turn your organs to mush in 24 hours.

If you are youngish and have no underlying health conditions, then even if you do catch the virus, it will most likely manifest itself as a nasty flu. Which in and of itself isn't great. But the flu ... we can deal with it. Health care systems are set up for X number of cases of influenza per season. In other words, yeah, there will be 22,000 or whatever number people dying of flu-like symptoms in any given time period, but we're prepared for that .

But if you catch a bad flu or pneumonia, you won't be triaged into corridors or just left to die because we don't have enough ventilators. Here in France, 50 percent of those in intensive care are under age 60. I'm closer to 60 than 40, and I don't want this to kill me.

This is a new disease. We've seen the flu, in various mutations and strains; we mostly know how to handle it.

Until we learn more about it, including whether we can make a vaccine for it before it disappears (which happened with SARS), why not take precautions? Wouldn't you feel a lot better if this passes through the population with, say, a 1 or 2 percent death rate (which would still mean 10s of thousands) and by the summer we can resume normal activities rather than the worst case?

In the nursing home in Wash. state, 35 out of 129 people died. Of course, they were old, feeble, already ill etc. But if Covid-19 can rampage unchecked through the population because we aren't isolating, washing our hands etc, then would you really like to see 30 percent of older people in imperfect health die in the next 6 months, many of them alone and without even rudimentary palliative care? Because that's what's going to happen.https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/21/us/coronavirus-nursing-home-kirkland-life-care.html
 

gbg

Miki Dora status
Jan 22, 2006
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What's fucked up is there are thousands of Trump haters jumping for joy right now thinking this kills his reelection.
 

GWS_2

Miki Dora status
Aug 3, 2019
4,141
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Woah. The obese are more at risk.
Yup. And Millennials are fat as fvck.

You've heard of "the greatest generation."

Make room for the "fattest generation."

A lot of room.

They'll need a LOT of food as well.

And toilet paper. They've got some WIDE loads to wipe.

According to science Millennials are the fattest generation since records have been kept re fatties.

Matter of fact Millennials are dropping dead of obesity related cancers at a rate that exceeds old ass boomers.

You've heard the saying about taking candy from a baby right?

Boomers have begun taking toilet paper out of Millennial's grocery carts for sport. You walk over to their cart, grab it, hold it up so they can see it through the folds of fat around their eyes, and walk backwards as you taunt them for being rolly polly. It's true. The AARP has leagues and stuff.

Like taking toilet paper from a Millennial.
 
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Bohter

Michael Peterson status
Mar 7, 2006
2,665
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So what makes me the most skeptical is there's two theories for how we get sick....the mainstream one is there's contagious viruses.....the other....not so much. Why are there two theories? Not settled science??? Which one makes the most money for somebody? Go listen to to that Part 3 vid I posted yesterday...and these quotes....

This may help. Quotes from Doctors, Nutritionists and Researchers who refute the Germ Theory:

“Medical doctors are working on the germ theory of disease... But the germ theory is already weakening and is due for being thrown aside. Dr. Fraser of Canada and Dr. Powell of California have experimented with billions of germs of all varieties, but they have been unable to produce a single disease by the introduction of germs into human subjects. Dr. Waite tried for years to prove the germ theory, but he could not do so. During the World War an experiment was conducted at Gallop's Island Massachusetts, in which millions of influenza germs were injected into over one hundred men at the Government hospital, and no one got the flu. Germs are scavengers.” -- Principles and Practice of Naturopathy. E.W. Cordingley, M.D

“... Viruses are simply the excretions of a toxic cell. Viruses are pieces of DNA or RNA, with a few other proteins. They butt out from the cell. They happen when the cell is poisoned. They are not the cause of anything.” - Thomas Cowan MD on Rudolf Steiner's insights.

"Had it not been for the mass selling of vaccines, Pasteur's germ theory of disease would have collapsed into obscurity." --- E. Douglas Hume

"We must infer that at least some and probably all three of those Russian peasants died because of Pasteur’s vaccine, as did uncounted people later on....Only one thing is sure: ever since Pasteur developed his "vaccine," the cases of death from rabies have increased, not diminished." - Hans Ruesch

“In all that I have witnessed inside and outside of laboratories, there is only one cause of disease: Industrial pollution in medication, food, air, soil and water. Strengthening a body’s constitution and lymphatic system is the first step to reversing/curing disease” – Aajonus Vonderplantiz

“If the Germ Theory were true, no one would be alive to believe it.” BJ Palmer, D.C.

“In 1915, another medical doctor wrote an article for the top British medical journal Lancet. Dr. Montais studied 21 cases of tetanus, each of whom had received Pasteurian inoculation. The conclusion of the article, which appeared in the 23 Oct 1915 issue, was that in every case, the tetanus had been caused by the inoculation. Dr. Montais said that "Pasteur had created a new form of disease." -- The Post-Antibiotic Age: Germ Theory by Tim O'Shea

“The culprit however, is not the microbe. It is the level of toxicity you have in your own blood stream.” -- Good-Bye Germ Theory, Dr. William P. Trebing 2006

“You’re working under a wrong premise to begin with and you’re never going to find the answer if you do that. Viruses have no nucleus. There’s no respiratory system. There’s no circulatory system. There’s no digestive system. Viruses are not alive. That’s like saying soap is alive. They’re not alive. They are solvents. They are soaps. However, more accurately, they are enzymes to fractionate tissue for waste elimination.” – Aajonus Vonderplanitz

“We agree with those members of the profession who hold that no germ causes tuberculosis. Germs do not cause any disease. Further, we agree that there is more harm in the fear of germs than there is in the germs themselves.” -- Timely Truths on Human Health - Simon Louis Katzoff, M.D. 1921

“We must look rationally at the bacterial issue. Consider the fact that many tribes ate primarily unsalted raw meat, unsalted raw fats and/or unsalted raw dairy products from the beginning. They did not wash their hands or sterilize their food before eating. Every form of natural bacteria, including salmonella, E. coli and campylobacter were eaten with their food abundantly and constantly. Why were they vibrant, healthy and disease free if microbes are the culprits?” -- Aajonus Vonderplanitz - The Recipe for Living Without Disease

“The general public have been told that we do not become ill except when germs penetrate into from without. The germ theory of disease is ridiculous.” -- Bechamp or Pasteur, A lost chapter in the History of Biology - E. Douglas Hume

"Germs cannot be the cause of disease, because disease germs are also found in healthy bodies.” -- Nature Cure, H. Lindlahr,M.D.

“The entire fabric of the germ theory of disease rests upon assumptions which not only have not been proved, but which are incapable of proof, and many of them can be proved to be the reverse of truth. The basic one of the unproven assumptions, wholly due to Pasteur, is the hypothesis that all the so-called infections and contagious disorder are caused by germs.” - M.L. Leverson, M.D

“Any kind of flu is the same thing. When the climate and temperature are right, certain tissues will cleanse. They may have a 7-years cycle. They may have a 6-months cycle. It depends upon the tissue and how contaminated it is. If certain tissue needs to cleanse every two years, our bodies will create, if waste tissue is too toxic for mircrobes, our bodies will create a solvent (a virus) that fractionates and cleanses that particular tissue every two years, every 6 months, every 3 months, every 7 years, every 12 years, depending upon that tissue and how contaminated it is. The myth that herpes is contagious is pharmaceutical industry fiction to scare you into taking medication.” – Aajonus Vonderplanitz

What’s happening is, like I said, we have colds, which are mainly bacterial, which go feed on toxic tissue that’s been damaged – we don’t eat well enough, we don’t eat all raw and therefore we accumulate toxicity. So bacteria have to come in and eat that waste product because we can’t keep up with all the waste. OK. So that’s what a cold is. Flu is mainly viral. Some bacteria may be active during flu. Some areas of our bodies may not be so contaminated that bacteria – the natural way that we cleanse with bacteria when we’re overloaded with toxicity or waste products, will help us. But when we are so toxic that the bacteria are poisoned by the tissue, from chemical inundation, then we have to make solvents. Each cell makes a solvent. Each cell makes a soap to help clean itself. And it’s a union. It’s like a factory. All the particular cells get together and say, “Let’s make this to help clean ourselves.” So they make enzymes which we will call soap to do that. So there’s nothing dormant about it. It’s just that when the accumulation of industrially contaminated waste is so great and you can’t use microbes then the cells make solvents, that is, viruses we call flu.”- Aajonus Vonderplanitz

“Three criteria are, according to the scientific method needed to properly identify a virus. It must be isolated from a host cell. As of 2016 this has never been accomplished in humans. It must be photographed and it’s diameter measured. As of 2016 this has never been accomplished in humans. It must be biochemically characterized. As of 2016 this has never been accomplished in humans. This has never been done with any virus (herpes, hepatitis, h1n1, bird flu, swine flu, influenza, polio, measles) let alone HIV, HPV, SARS, Zika or Ebola.”- Viruses. How Much is that Dogma in the Window? – New Medicine Online
 
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Bohter

Michael Peterson status
Mar 7, 2006
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More...

CONTAGIOUS DISEASES and the GERM THEORY - By Dr. Bernarr, D.C., D.D. (All these quotes, from Doctors refuting the Germ Theory, are from this article)

T.C. Fry wrote, "Actually bacteria are our symbiotic partners in both health and disease. They serve a useful role. As scavengers they make harmless or remove undesirable substances within our bodies. They also elaborate certain of our body needs. That is, they help build complex organic compounds from simple ingredients. A notable example of this is the production of vitamin B-12 in our intestines."

Fry also wrote, "'Infection' is no war in which the body is fighting invaders. The bacteria that come to these sites are symbiotic and help the body in elaborating dead cells and tissues for expulsion-they are partners in the cleanup process. When this has been accumulated the bacteria disappear and the wound heals. Infection...is a body-cleaning process for a body burdened with toxic materials."

Dr. Paul Goldberg writes, "We need to re-direct our perspectives of microbes and see them in a new light. In terms of bacteria, for example, we need to appreciate them as: Bodily inhabitants who assist us in such ways as protecting us from other organisms (e.g. fungi), assisting in digestion and metabolism of food, synthesizing vitamins, and helping to eliminate waste materials."

Dr. Alec Burton writes, "DO GERMS CAUSE DISEASE? Or could it be the other way around...first, the disease, then the germs. Natural Hygiene contends that germs do not cause disease. They are not the originators. Most diseases occur when people allow themselves to become enervated, that is, low in nerve energy. As a consequence, the organs of excretion fail to function normally and waste material accumulates in the body. When this waste continues to build up, exceeding the body's toleration point, a crisis arises. The body, to offset this overabundance of poisonous matter, begins to react. The result of this reaction is sometimes a cold, the flu, pneumonia, or some such, depending on the individual. At this crisis point of elimination, germs may or may not be present. They are sure to come later, not to attack, but to assist in the cleanup or cleansing process."

Dr. Virginia Vetrano writes, "Hygienists object to the germ theory of disease because germs do not cause disease. They may be present in disease processes, and they many complicate a disease with their waste products which can be very toxic at times, but the germ or virus alone is never the sole cause of disease."

"Germs are saprophytes; that is, they live off dead and decaying organic matter. Bacteria are actually our benefactors. They decompose our excretions, helping to rid the system of them. Bacteria are non-toxic, and non-virulent as long as body secretions and excretions are normal. When toxemia exists, that is, when metabolic wastes accumulate in the system in excess, causing the secretions and excretions of the body to become abnormal and poisonous, a non-pathogenic bacterium can turn into a so-called pathogenic one simply by feeding on toxic wastes. Bacteria excrete toxic waste only when human secretions are abnormal and when the cells of the body are killed by excessive toxic saturation, bacteria go to work to disorganize them and help the body rid itself of dead tissue. 'Disease producing' germs are often present in the absence of the disease they are supposed to cause. They are often found when an individual has not had the disease that a particular germ is supposed to cause and when the individual never develops the disease. Furthermore, in myriads of cases, a particular pathogenic germ is not present when the disease it is supposed to cause exists."

Dr. Robert R. Gross wrote, "Germs do not cause disease! Nature never surrounded her children with enemies. It is the individual himself who makes disease possible in his own body because of poor living habits...Do mosquitoes make the water stagnant; or does stagnant water attract the mosquitoes? We should all be taught that germs are friends and scavengers attracted by disease, rather {than} enemies causing disease...As their internal environment is, so will be the attraction for any specific micro-organism...The germ theory and vaccination are kept going by Commercialism."

Dr. Herbert Shelton wrote, "Warmth, moisture, food-these are the causes that activate latent germs and arouse them to activity. They exist, all except the food, in the mouth, nose and throat at all times. The food is thrown out into these, as excretions, in disease. The germs feed on the excretions. They are scavengers. They were never anything else and will never be anything else. They break up and consume the discharge from the tissues. This is the function ascribed to germs everywhere in nature outside the body and is their real and only function in disease. They are purifying and beneficial agents. The medical profession has worked itself into hysteria over the germ theory and is using it to exploit an all too credulous public. Germs are ubiquitous. They are in the air we breathe, the food we eat, the water we drink. We cannot escape them. We can destroy them only to a limited extent. It is folly to attempt to escape disease by attempting to destroy or escape germs. Once they are in the body the physician has no means of destroying them that will not, at the same time, destroy the patient. We cannot avoid germs. We must be proof against them. We have to accept them as one of the joys of life."

Rudolph Virchow, a great German scientist, repudiated the germ theory of disease. He said that disease brought on germs rather than the germs caused disease. Claude Bernard, Bechamp and Tissot-great French scientists-all disproved the germ theory of disease. In Hans Selye's book Stress of Life (Page 205), an account is recorded that Louis Pasteur, inventor of the germ theory of disease, admitted he was wrong. Sanitation is the only factor that has reduced the spread of the old-time scourges. If the germ theory were founded on facts, there would be no living being to read what is herein written, for germs are ubiquitous-they exist everywhere. In many diseases supposedly caused by a specific germ, that germ is not present. Contrariwise, specific germs said to cause a specific disease are present in huge proportions without the specific disease manifesting itself.

Dr. Virginia Vetrano writes, "Just remember that there are no contagious diseases, just contagious habits which lower your vitality. There have been many people who have had diphtheria and yet no germ could be found. The same can be said of tuberculosis and other diseases. This is why the virus had to be discovered-to save the germ theory. Now we have virus infections instead of germ infections because pathologists could not find a germ for all the diseases of mankind. If a germ does not cause disease, what does? Soon everyone will learn that it is the individual's way of life that produces disease and not the saprophytes of earth, which are actually beneficial to us. Without them we would all succumb. They do so many jobs for us that it would take volumes to tell you about them. In fact without bacterial life, all animal and plant life would soon wither and die. On second thought, without bacteria we can't even wither."

https://realrawfood.com/sit...
 
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GromsDad

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I think people are failing to realize they’re concerned about the virus overwhelming the medical system and spreading rapidly with no way to stop it.

I don’t think it’s fake at all and will prob crush the economy
The virus isn't fake but the reaction to it is over the top. The reaction to it is assuring that the economy is crushed even if the virus did turn into a nothingburger.
 
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