Akila Aipa's/Slater Designs' Twin release

[casa_mugrienta]

I dunno mate.

watching Mason Ho ride boards of wildly different volume, JOB get shacked at Pipe on a blobby soft top thats 40l+......

They are pro surfers riding a variety of different board designs.

Very high level of skill, also naturally superior/more efficient paddling ability.

Also, board design - tool for the job - Joel Tudor rides a a lot of volume at Big Rock but a lot of volume isn't gonna work as well in the boards we're talking about. More like a nightmare.

I'd say if you cannot make the drop it's an archer not an arrow issue.

In that case undervolumed boards are just as good as adequately volumed boards. Or overvolumed boards for that matter.

Which we know is not the case.

The arrow matters, at least in the case of the particular kind of board we're talking about.

In critical waves we want the board to sink to some degree. We don't want to be floating to the point where the only safe place is to take off on the shoulder, nor do we want to be swimming. Slabby reefs make this known quick.

There is a law of diminishing returns that goes both ways.

But you've probably answered your own query there about "over-volumed" shortboards.
ie "There is so much more to boards than volume."

That was my point - hence why a lot of California boards might seem undervolumed to guys elsewhere.

 

[freeride76]

do you ride a lot of slabby reefs in California?
Why do want the board to sink to a certain degree?

to paddle in you have to break from the hydrostatic (paddling speed) to the hydrodynamic (planing speed) - how does sinking improve this?

or are you talking about directional control, cornering?

If so, tell me how JJF gets directional control on a 10ft gun at Himalayas via sinking?

We'll always be talking past each other here because it's pure personal preference but after seeing the wide variety in boards guys ride at Teahupoo, and Pipe and Gnaraloo etc etc I don't think an extra liter or three is going to make a material difference.

In fact I know it doesn't.

I think it's a classic case of what has become in certain circles what JK Galbraith calls the approved belief or conventional wisdom.
ie this idea that shortboard is 28.9 l instead of 27.9 and thus it's over-volumed and holding me back.

 

[Tomay]

I suppose my question was related to HPSB in the decent to good waves. Generally these designs are all similar in terms of rocker and mostly similar in outline. My experience, like Casa is that overvolumed boards in this category have lost the spark that really makes them tick - their responsiveness. I think body type and surfing style probably play into these things a lot more than they are given credit - but for me at 6'1 170lbs and with chicken legs I have enjoyed smaller boards in this category and conditions in the past. I am curious if there's a dimension I'm overlooking here such as rails, volume distribution, length, etc which I could look at from another perspective and improve the boards I buy. These days though I dont really have much desire to ride a HPSB - but always end up going back to the well at some point.

 

[freeride76]

what do you ride?

 

[Tomay]

I suppose my CI Fever would fall into this category. Believe it’s 5’11 and around 28 ltrs.

 

[casa_mugrienta]

do you ride a lot of slabby reefs in California?

A few locally

Why do want the board to sink to a certain degree?

to paddle in you have to break from the hydrostatic (paddling speed) to the hydrodynamic (planing speed) - how does sinking improve this?

or are you talking about directional control, cornering?

If so, tell me how JJF gets directional control on a 10ft gun at Himalayas via sinking?

Pyzel puts it perfectly

How to Order the Perfect Board for Slab Hunting

Pro tips from shaper and slab scientist Jon Pyzel

www.surfer.com

But I would say there are other waves, not just slabs, where the prefect takeoff spot is gonna be just below the lip, or behind the lip. Best example I could find demonstrating this:

10ft Himalyas is a whole different ballgame.

We'll always be talking past each other here because it's pure personal preference but after seeing the wide variety in boards guys ride at Teahupoo, and Pipe and Gnaraloo etc etc I don't think an extra liter or three is going to make a material difference.

In fact I know it doesn't.

I think it's a classic case of what has become in certain circles what JK Galbraith calls the approved belief or conventional wisdom.
ie this idea that shortboard is 28.9 l instead of 27.9 and thus it's over-volumed and holding me back.

Maybe try riding a performance shape that's designed for someone 30 of 40 lbs heavier than you in waves with critical takeoffs.

It's going to depend on a combination of factors and will matter with some boards and not with others. Best combo of boards I found in those weeks were 23.8 and 26.5, both put me where I wanted to be, the ones in between paddled great but the boaty feeling of taking off "on top" gave no confidence.

I can't speak for any of those 3 waves. A lot of proper Gnaraloo looks like the majority of takeoffs are late and in the lip, not under, so i would guess extra volume is going to help (?)

 

[casa_mugrienta]

I suppose my question was related to HPSB in the decent to good waves. Generally these designs are all similar in terms of rocker and mostly similar in outline. My experience, like Casa is that overvolumed boards in this category have lost the spark that really makes them tick - their responsiveness. I think body type and surfing style probably play into these things a lot more than they are given credit - but for me at 6'1 170lbs and with chicken legs I have enjoyed smaller boards in this category and conditions in the past. I am curious if there's a dimension I'm overlooking here such as rails, volume distribution, length, etc which I could look at from another perspective and improve the boards I buy. These days though I dont really have much desire to ride a HPSB - but always end up going back to the well at some point.

It's all tradeoffs.

I don't think there's anyone who doesn't want to be riding more volume, it's just always going to come at a cost.

Whatever, I know fvckall about design, just going off what I can feel, the rest is the shaper's job.

 

[sh3]

As with Freerider, I'll choose a little too much volume any day. BUT - and this is a major point that shouldn't be taken lightly - the foil of the board will determine if it's any good or not. Big thick rails on a board that's already too much volume is a nightmare. Had a step up (6'1" by Daniel T., actually) like that which I couldn't appropriately sink the rails and it felt awful. Sold it. Had a semi-gun (7'4" by xxxxx) like that in Hawaii that nearly killed me. I shouldn've never been on that board.

Back in the late 80's early 90's, I rode a 5'11" x 18" x 2-1/8" rocketed out short board. I weighed 150# at the time. What a nightmare if the waves weren't anything beyond perfect. I'm so happy to have real boards now that actually get in, stay in, and promote the surfing.

So, point is, that for most people out there a little extra volume is a huge plus that will promote more waves, more fun, and more time in the water... and hence even more waves and more fun. As Griffin often says, the point is fun. Foil it properly, and you're golden.

 

[Duffy LaCoronilla]

I think they photoshop the fin boxes in pics like this.

That might be the discrepancy.

View attachment 104468

That’s not even a photo at all.

 

[Duffy LaCoronilla]

It's all tradeoffs.

I don't think there's anyone who doesn't want to be riding more volume, it's just always going to come at a cost.

Whatever, I know fvckall about design, just going off what I can feel, the rest is the shaper's job.

I ride the least amount of volume necessary for the task. Crowd is a factor.

Solo surf in shoulder high - head and a half I’m on a board (Wizard Sleeve) that‘s 29L. My normal HPSB (Fever) is 33.

 

[freeride76]

Pyzel puts it perfectly

How to Order the Perfect Board for Slab Hunting

Pro tips from shaper and slab scientist Jon Pyzel

www.surfer.com

that was cool and the Ghost is exhibit A of that design.

didn't see anything in there about sinking the board though.

 

[griffinsurfboard]

Sinking the board is a silly concept -

 

[casa_mugrienta]

that was cool and the Ghost is exhibit A of that design.

didn't see anything in there about sinking the board though.

The sinking I was trying to describe is what he more appropriately calls "digging in".

“With slabs, you’re not gonna want a lot of volume. There’s no early entry; it’s not like Sunset where you want a bunch of volume to roll into the wave before it breaks. What I’ve found that’s really important is when you add that extra thickness, you don’t want that thickness to carry out to the rail of the board. Otherwise, you’re gonna have a really hard time setting your rail when you try to knife up underneath it. Basically you want to add that volume under your chest in the center of the board, rather than throughout. You definitely don’t want some flat deck board. You want a refined rail, so that you can dig in....You don’t want a really sharp, knife-y rail, but it’s super important to have the board foil out in thinness, and especially through the tail. For any type of slabby wave, you never want to be up at the top of the wave as you’re catching it, you want to be standing up in the middle of the face, or behind the peak.”

I think this extends to critical takeoffs in general. As sh3 said, being on a board with too much foam can be hazardous in some situations.

 

[ChaseTMP]

Kelly Slater-Approved PSA: Get a Twin-Fin.

Akila Aipa and the GOAT refine an antiquated favorite into a postmodern marvel: the 'Flat Earth'

www.surfline.com

 

[casa_mugrienta]

Kelly Slater-Approved PSA: Get a Twin-Fin.

Akila Aipa and the GOAT refine an antiquated favorite into a postmodern marvel: the 'Flat Earth'

www.surfline.com

Can they stop speeding up the surf clips already?

He makes that thing look so easy and free.

 

[doc_flavonoid]

As with Freerider, I'll choose a little too much volume any day. BUT - and this is a major point that shouldn't be taken lightly - the foil of the board will determine if it's any good or not. Big thick rails on a board that's already too much volume is a nightmare. Had a step up (6'1" by Daniel T., actually) like that which I couldn't appropriately sink the rails and it felt awful. Sold it. Had a semi-gun (7'4" by xxxxx) like that in Hawaii that nearly killed me. I shouldn've never been on that board.

Back in the late 80's early 90's, I rode a 5'11" x 18" x 2-1/8" rocketed out short board. I weighed 150# at the time. What a nightmare if the waves weren't anything beyond perfect. I'm so happy to have real boards now that actually get in, stay in, and promote the surfing.

So, point is, that for most people out there a little extra volume is a huge plus that will promote more waves, more fun, and more time in the water... and hence even more waves and more fun. As Griffin often says, the point is fun. Foil it properly, and you're golden.

yeah no

i disagree with the generalization about volume and "big thick" rails.

boxy low apex rails and a tucked edge on wide point forward flat bottomed semi guns are money in good powerful surf. lots potential energy stored in those rails as one well respected shaper said to me.

nothing feels quite like driving through turns on rails that push back rather than "sink". i liken those kind of rails to having a whole other dimension to surf off of..

sure you have to adapt your approach to it and obviously its not everyones thing (particularly guys trapped in the modern shortboard contrivances) but its no less fun and certainly not a "nightmare"

 

[Havoc]

yeah no

i disagree with the generalization about volume and "big thick" rails.

boxy low apex rails and a tucked edge on wide point forward flat bottomed semi guns are money in good powerful surf. lots potential energy stored in those rails as one well respected shaper said to me.

nothing feels quite like driving through turns on rails that push back rather than "sink". i liken those kind of rails to having a whole other dimension to surf off of..

sure you have to adapt your approach to it and obviously its not everyones thing (particularly guys trapped in the modern shortboard contrivances) but its no less fun and certainly not a "nightmare"

sounds like parmenter rails

 

[shaheeb]

how can one shred ankle hi waves

 

[000]

great way to rip out fin boxes: with twin sized fins

 

[casa_mugrienta]

how can one shred ankle hi waves

Your board needs Firewire tech to do this.