Zone 2 training

[Duffy LaCoronilla]

So, getting close to 3 months of zone 2 and hoping that I've remodeled my mitochondria. Then I read that sugar is a mitochondrial toxin. Does that mean drinking sports drinks (Gatorade) on my runs is messing with the gains? I bring about 10oz on my long (+13 mile ) runs.

ps I know there might be better options, but I bought a big can of powdered Gatorade that will last months....I guess I'll just dilute it more.

Get some maltodextrin powder (long chain carbohydrate) from a home brew supplier.

Mix with water and flavor with a little watermelon juice - or whatever flavor…

Gatorade is poison.

Whatever you do, DO NOT BUY CarboPro. That is unless you want to pay 50x the price you can get the same sh!t from a home brew supplier.

I got kicked off of a triathlon forum for pointing out that CarboPro - a brand of pure maltodextrin - power was selling their sh!t at about 50 times the price you could buy maltodextrin by the pound from any home brew supplier. Turned out CarboPro was a sponsor of the forum.

I wouldn’t shut up about regardless and got banned.

 

[Duffy LaCoronilla]

Edit to add…

…went to find you a price comparison and apparently CarboPro is out of business.

Duffy gets results.

 

[slipped_disc]

I’ve been doing zone 2 training for the past few months. Started with running, but have since diversified to running, swimming, stair climbing, biking, rowing. Part of this is out of interest—the other part is out of necessity of having a 8 month old and not always being able to exercise until he’s gone to bed and it’s dark and raining. Thankfully, we’ve got stairs in the apartment; a gym next door and a public pool not far away.

I can notice the improved efficiency in my legs — especially on the bike. And generally speaking, my body (especially back) is loving the extra blood flow swirling around in there.

I haven’t noticed much of a difference paddling in the water — but will be devoting more time to rowing and swimming going forward. Hoping both will improve capillary density in my upper body and just put a little more muscle back there.

I should probably reintroduce some strength training too. I’ve lost weight with the zone 2 and surfing only regimen.

 

[One-Off]

I’ve been doing zone 2 training for the past few months. Started with running, but have since diversified to running, swimming, stair climbing, biking, rowing. Part of this is out of interest—the other part is out of necessity of having a 8 month old and not always being able to exercise until he’s gone to bed and it’s dark and raining. Thankfully, we’ve got stairs in the apartment; a gym next door and a public pool not far away.

I can notice the improved efficiency in my legs — especially on the bike. And generally speaking, my body (especially back) is loving the extra blood flow swirling around in there.

I haven’t noticed much of a difference paddling in the water — but will be devoting more time to rowing and swimming going forward. Hoping both will improve capillary density in my upper body and just put a little more muscle back there.

I should probably reintroduce some strength training too. I’ve lost weight with the zone 2 and surfing only regimen.

Congrats on the new kid. Are you in the PNW?

Are you using HR monitor? Machines for biking and rowing? I've heard biking is really hard to stay in zone 2- as soon as you hit a hill your HR spikes. I notice how sensitive I am to running up hills. We go for a family hike every weekend and I put the HR monitor on my wife and daughter. To stay in zone 2 both had to frequently slow down or even stop when the climbing got steep.

My HR monitor ran out of battery a couple weeks ago. I've run the past couple of weeks using RPE (rate of perceived exertion) to stay in zone 2. I would consciously slow myself down, because my experience is zone 2 is slow.

Today I just did a 10k run (in the pouring rain) with the HR monitor (finally got a new battery) and discovered my zone 2 is now much faster than what I was doing by RPE. I did the 10k at 8:45 pace. That's almost back to what was a "normal" easy pace for me.

One more week (it will have been 3 months) and I'll add back in intervals and tempo runs. I'll still do the 80/20 protocol- 80% zone 2 (3-4 hours a week), 20% zone 4 (1-2 hours a week). I'll probably alternate hill intervals one week, 6-13 mile tempo run another week.

Oh, and I always do reistance 2x a week- one bodyweight day, one barbell day. The zone 2 experts (Duffy and Sh3) both said strength work didn't interfere with zone 2. I just make sure to do cardio and strength on separate days.

Then surfing comes into the mix and ruins everything. Especially this winter.

ps oh, and one day a week for the next couple of months I'm going to just see how far I can run/walk in 6 hours...

 

[slipped_disc]

Are you using HR monitor? Machines for biking and rowing? I've heard biking is really hard to stay in zone 2- as soon as you hit a hill your HR spikes. I notice how sensitive I am to running up hills. We go for a family hike every weekend and I put the HR monitor on my wife and daughter. To stay in zone 2 both had to frequently slow down or even stop when the climbing got steep.

My HR monitor ran out of battery a couple weeks ago. I've run the past couple of weeks using RPE (rate of perceived exertion) to stay in zone 2. I would consciously slow myself down, because my experience is zone 2 is slow.

Today I just did a 10k run (in the pouring rain) with the HR monitor (finally got a new battery) and discovered my zone 2 is now much faster than what I was doing by RPE. I did the 10k at 8:45 pace. That's almost back to what was a "normal" easy pace for me.

One more week (it will have been 3 months) and I'll add back in intervals and tempo runs. I'll still do the 80/20 protocol- 80% zone 2 (3-4 hours a week), 20% zone 4 (1-2 hours a week). I'll probably alternate hill intervals one week, 6-13 mile tempo run another week.

Oh, and I always do reistance 2x a week- one bodyweight day, one barbell day. The zone 2 experts (Duffy and Sh3) both said strength work didn't interfere with zone 2. I just make sure to do cardio and strength on separate days.

Then surfing comes into the mix and ruins everything. Especially this winter.

ps oh, and one day a week for the next couple of months I'm going to just see how far I can run/walk in 6 hours...

I am using a HR monitor. And have been biking outside and in gym on machine at night or if it’s rainy.

Biking outside is much harder to stay perfectly in zone 2 but adjusting gears proactively seems to help. Plus there aren’t any extreme grades on the ride. But interestingly, the bike feels like it requires more effort to get to zone 2 than running. Feels like more of a workout in a good way.

The rowing machine is indoors, yes. It’s monotonous but with all the rain and my weird schedule I’m thankful to have access to a variety of equipment. Would like to graduate to a paddle board at some point. Would be so much nicer to be out on the water. More of a summer time thing for me k suspect.

 

[One-Off]

For us older guys- another reason to do 80/20 (eighty percent zone 2, easy cardio)-

 

[Chocki]

Get some maltodextrin powder (long chain carbohydrate) from a home brew supplier.

Mix with water and flavor with a little watermelon juice - or whatever flavor…

Gatorade is poison.

Whatever you do, DO NOT BUY CarboPro. That is unless you want to pay 50x the price you can get the same sh!t from a home brew supplier.

I got kicked off of a triathlon forum for pointing out that CarboPro - a brand of pure maltodextrin - power was selling their sh!t at about 50 times the price you could buy maltodextrin by the pound from any home brew supplier. Turned out CarboPro was a sponsor of the forum.

I wouldn’t shut up about regardless and got banned.

 

[Duffy LaCoronilla]

View attachment 173345

I used to eat a couple pop-tarts before my morning runs. Washed ‘em down with a can of Ensure.

 

[One-Off]

I used to eat a couple pop-tarts before my morning runs. Washed ‘em down with a can of Ensure.

For a while there were “Fiber One” pop tarts, “a good source of fiber” and I was convinced l could eat them to my heart’s content because now they’re healthy.

 

[Duffy LaCoronilla]

For a while there were “Fiber One” pop tarts, “a good source of fiber” and I was convinced l could eat them to my heart’s content because now they’re healthy.

I ate the pop-tarts for energy. I just needed calories to sustain the workouts.

 

[One-Off]

DO NOT SPRINT AT THE END. Maintain that low HR. It's an incredible way to train... for men. Doesn't work as well with women.

I train this endurance crap for a living. You'll end your workout feeling like you can do it again, and that's kind of the point. Keep doing the training. When you do another 13 mile zone 2 run in a month from now, see if you can do it faster. The point is to go as fast as you can without popping the HR. If you're faster, then you've made yourself stronger because you've used the same effort but now you're faster. It's training and it works really well.

Don't intend to take over the thread, but do know I've done a lot of endurance crap, and successfully. Low HR training is very real.

Two zone II workouts a week ain’t gonna do sh!t.

So I wanted to hear your two expert opinions about mixing zone 2 and intervals in the same run. I just finished 3 months of pretty strict zone 2 running, culminating in yesterday's 26.5 mile run. Results are mixed. I had a couple runs (10k distance) at under 9 minute mile pace. My long runs (15+ miles) still slow considerably and end up being around 10 minutes overall. And it can differ 3o seconds from day to day. It's all better than the 10:30 I started at.

So I was going to start adding intervals. I just wanted to know what happens when I run 3 miles zone 2, then do the intervals, and then another 3 miles zone 2? From what I understand the zone 2 benefits are negated. What about the the zone 4? Would it be better to run the 3 back and forth in zone 3, kind of just do the whole run in higher zone?

I can't find anything on the inter webs about mixing zones in the same run and what that does for the training.

 

[Duffy LaCoronilla]

So I wanted to hear your two expert opinions about mixing zone 2 and intervals in the same run. I just finished 3 months of pretty strict zone 2 running, culminating in yesterday's 26.5 mile run. Results are mixed. I had a couple runs (10k distance) at under 9 minute mile pace. My long runs (15+ miles) still slow considerably and end up being around 10 minutes overall. And it can differ 3o seconds from day to day. It's all better than the 10:30 I started at.

So I was going to start adding intervals. I just wanted to know what happens when I run 3 miles zone 2, then do the intervals, and then another 3 miles zone 2? From what I understand the zone 2 benefits are negated. What about the the zone 4? Would it be better to run the 3 back and forth in zone 3, kind of just do the whole run in higher zone?

I can't find anything on the inter webs about mixing zones int the same run and what that does for the training.

That would be called an interval workout.

Fartlek, actually.

 

[sh3]

Sounds great to me. It also sounds like you're getting great benefits from the zone 2 training. Remember: This is NOT your race pace. This is what makes your race pace better.

If you add in fartleks (a real term which means "Speed play"), you will only get better and stronger. Now is the time. Sounds to me like you're killing it!

 

[One-Off]

Am I getting any zone 2 (mitochondrial) benefits?

I do two runs a week.

#1- 26+ miles- 8 miles zone 2 , then 12 miles zone 3 (walking/climbing/jogging up and down 3000+ feet in the mountains), followed by 6.5 miles zone 3. This last portion I’m not in zone 3 going fast. It’s zone 3 because I’m tired. Jogging. Staying in zone 2 at that point would be a REALLY slow jog, interspersed with some walking. So I just go zone 3, what Duffy called the “sh!t zone.”

#2- 13 miles- 5 miles zone 2, followed by 4x4 intervals (4 minutes hard, last 30 seconds sprinting, followed by one minute walk, 3 minutes jogging). Repeat four, sometimes five times. Ending with about 4 miles tempo pace (half marathon race pace, about 8 to 8:30 mile ).

I think I‘ll just keep doing this routine for awhile, unless someone convinces me it would be better to do an exclusively zone 2 run.

 

[PRCD]

Am I getting any zone 2 (mitochondrial) benefits?

I do two runs a week.

#1- 26+ miles- 8 miles zone 2 , then 12 miles zone 3 (walking/climbing/jogging up and down 3000+ feet in the mountains), followed by 6.5 miles zone 3. This last portion I’m not in zone 3 because I’m going fast. It’s zone 3 because I’m tired. Jogging. Staying in zone 2 at that point would be a REALLY slow jog, interspersed with some walking. So I just go zone 3, what Duffy called the “sh!t zone.”

#2- 13 miles- 5 miles zone 2, followed by 4x4 intervals (4 minutes hard, last 30 seconds sprinting, followed by one minute walk, 3 minutes jogging). Repeat four, sometimes five times. Ending with about 4 miles tempo pace (half marathon race pace, about 8 to 8:30 mile ).

I think I‘ll just keep doing this routine for awhile, unless someone convinces me it would be better to do an exclusively zone 2 run.

Your wasting mitochondrial energy worrying about the benefits.

 

[One-Off]

Your wasting mitochondrial energy worrying about the benefits.

Questioning is different than worrying.

 

[b.r.]

That would be called an interval workout.

Fartlek, actually.

I sometimes do Fartleks between classes at school, usually around the desk of some kid who annoys me in the next period. I call it zone 2 cropdusting.