Zone 2 training

One-Off

Tom Curren status
Jul 28, 2005
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33.8N - 118.4W
I'm going to have my annual physical in a month and wanted to know my max heart rate. I did this test to determine it-

Warm up thoroughly so you start sweating.
Do two intervals, each four minutes long. During the intervals you should be too short of breath to talk. Intersperse each interval with three minutes of active rest.
Do the third interval, but two minutes in, increase your speed even further an run until you're too exhausted to continue. Your HRmax will be the highest heart rate you reach. The heart will reach a plateau at which it cannot beat any faster, regardless of how much you increase the workload.



It was ten points higher than the standard 220 minus age formula. 168 rather than 158.

I did a 13 mile run earlier this week at a steady pace. My heart rate went steadily went up. First mile 120, then went to 130 for a couple of miles, then settled in at 140, always running at a steady pace. The second half of the run was at a slightly faster pace and my HR was 145 with some spikes to 150. That's 85-90% of max HR. For an hour.

I've been reading about the longevity benefits of what is called zone 2 training compared to what I do on my long runs which is in zone 4. Zone 2 has significant health benefits and as soon as you move out of it you are using different metabolic processesand lose the benefits.

Should I be doing zone 2 runs? They would be painfully slow for me, walking basically. I might do zone 2 on our weekly hikes.


Anybody informed about or targeting zone 2 for training?.
 

scdad

Legend (inyourownmind)
Mar 20, 2003
452
308
63
San Clemente, CA
I'm going to have my annual physical in a month and wanted to know my max heart rate. I did this test to determine it-

Warm up thoroughly so you start sweating.
Do two intervals, each four minutes long. During the intervals you should be too short of breath to talk. Intersperse each interval with three minutes of active rest.
Do the third interval, but two minutes in, increase your speed even further an run until you're too exhausted to continue. Your HRmax will be the highest heart rate you reach. The heart will reach a plateau at which it cannot beat any faster, regardless of how much you increase the workload.



It was ten points higher than the standard 220 minus age formula. 168 rather than 158.

I did a 13 mile run earlier this week at a steady pace. My heart rate went steadily went up. First mile 120, then went to 130 for a couple of miles, then settled in at 140, always running at a steady pace. The second half of the run was at a slightly faster pace and my HR was 145 with some spikes to 150. That's 85-90% of max HR. For an hour.

I've been reading about the longevity benefits of what is called zone 2 training compared to what I do on my long runs which is in zone 4. Zone 2 has significant health benefits and as soon as you move out of it you are using different metabolic processesand lose the benefits.

Should I be doing zone 2 runs? They would be painfully slow for me, walking basically. I might do zone 2 on our weekly hikes.


Anybody informed about or targeting zone 2 for training?.
I'm kind of doing what you're describing. It is painfully slow it seems to me, but that is why I do the barefoot runs on the beach to at least give me a mental explanation. Maffetone has a lot of information and ideas on this type of running. When I do it, I try to keep my HR about 125-130ish. Then I'll bike in this rate too, and then I do one higher intensity day probably around Zone 4 per week. And, then my main endurance zone 2 training is a hike. Currently at about 8 miles with a 35lb weight in a backpack. I'm trying to work up to about 10-12 miles in the SoCal mountains/hills to train for a 4 day Catalina hike carrying a pack.

I definitely don't know the literature on the Zone 2 training sufficiently, but it seems like there is quite a bit of findings that support the claims and that using that along with some other varied rates is good to cause the cardio system to adapt and improve for normal life.

Just my random thoughts, and it makes me feel good so I'm going to keep doing it until I get bored or find out it doesn't work and I'm 6 feet under. ;-)
 
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One-Off

Tom Curren status
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Longevity. It's all about mitochodrial development.


I like this channel. Kind of like anatomy for dummies. Lots of material.

This is the upper division version. Dr. Attia has a few videos on the subject.

 
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Duffy LaCoronilla

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Apr 27, 2016
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I'm going to have my annual physical in a month and wanted to know my max heart rate. I did this test to determine it-

Warm up thoroughly so you start sweating.
Do two intervals, each four minutes long. During the intervals you should be too short of breath to talk. Intersperse each interval with three minutes of active rest.
Do the third interval, but two minutes in, increase your speed even further an run until you're too exhausted to continue. Your HRmax will be the highest heart rate you reach. The heart will reach a plateau at which it cannot beat any faster, regardless of how much you increase the workload.



It was ten points higher than the standard 220 minus age formula. 168 rather than 158.

I did a 13 mile run earlier this week at a steady pace. My heart rate went steadily went up. First mile 120, then went to 130 for a couple of miles, then settled in at 140, always running at a steady pace. The second half of the run was at a slightly faster pace and my HR was 145 with some spikes to 150. That's 85-90% of max HR. For an hour.

I've been reading about the longevity benefits of what is called zone 2 training compared to what I do on my long runs which is in zone 4. Zone 2 has significant health benefits and as soon as you move out of it you are using different metabolic processesand lose the benefits.

Should I be doing zone 2 runs? They would be painfully slow for me, walking basically. I might do zone 2 on our weekly hikes.


Anybody informed about or targeting zone 2 for training?.
When I was doing long distance triathlon - aka IronMan - almost all of my training was in zone 2.

Here’s the dirty little secret of zone 2 benefits. You have to train for a long long time consistently and exclusively in that zone to achieve its maximum potential.

First I’ll give you the drawbacks of this. The main drawback is that whenever you go over that zone you are somewhat regressing. Typically this isn’t a problem if you are committed to zone 2 training and you don’t do any other physical activities that elevate your heart rate above this zone. So where the problems arise for us surf bros is when you go surf and you get caught inside for a 10 wave beat down you have gone out of the zone. Every now and then it’s fine but let’s say El Niño actually kicks in and you’ve getting blasted at ocean beach for weeks on end you kind of threw your zone 2 plan out the window for the time being.

Ok, now that that is out of way the and assuming you aren’t a totally committed psychopath that feels an unquenchable need to swim/bike/run for 140.6 miles as fast as your body can do it, let’s talk about the insane benefits that you can achieve with a normal person commitment to the protocol…

Here’s what you do….(full disclosure, some of what I say below might be slightly off since I haven’t been training this way for awhile).

YOU NEED TO BE PATIENT. Track your progress over time and you’ll see amazing results.

First figure out your resting heart rate and your max. From there you can reasonably figure out your VO2 max. You can find out the formula online (it’s been awhile so I can’t rattle it off the top of my head right now). Zone 2 is found as a percentage of VO2 max. At first a rough estimate will work but as you do this your resting heat rate will decrease - assuming you’re above 50 bpm - and you VO2 max will increase which may change your target rate.

Down and dirty you can just say 180 minus your age (you seem pretty damn fit so you’d add 5 to that). For me right now my zone II is 132 bpm Using this calculation.

Note: Heart rate zones can be different for different exercises - especially at first. For me my target rates were slightly lower for cycling vs running until my cycling fitness increased, then I adjusted it up. Put simply the max heart rate I was able to achieve on the bike was about 10 bpm lower than running because my legs just couldn’t push it hard enough on the bike.

Note II: You can use training zones without a heart monitor by using RPE but I believe better results come from using a HRM.

Now, you’ll want to train in zone II exclusively for several months. This is where the patience comes into to play.

But here’s what happens…

…Say you start running at 10 min mile pace at zone II and anything above that you get out of that zone. Well that’s your pace. If your heart rate goes up after a couple miles, sorry, you have to slow down.

Your pace at zone II will increase over time. For me, my zone II pace started out at around 10 min/mile and after a couple months my pace was at 8 min/mile, then 7. At that point I added intervals and my zone II pace on race day was 6:45. Yeah, 6:45 min/mile at zone II. Could I keep that up for 26.2 after after a shampoo and a 112 mile blow dry? No. Eventually you have take off the strap and just run.

If you do it this way you will be a fucking cardio monster.

Now you can increase your top end race day speed quicker by just doing intervals but there are a couple issues with that.

1. Interval training is hard on your body.

2. The gains are short lived.

Training in zone II exclusively for extended period of time will better condition your body to handle interval training better and your gains will be more durable over time.

Put it this way….

Just intervals - high rev turbo charge 4 cylinder.

Zone II + intervals leading up to ‘race day’ - super charged V8.

Both can be made to go fast, the v8 will be more durable and require less time at the mechanics.

Oh, avoid training in zone III. Your intervals should get you quickly into zone IV and back down to zone II or I during the rest phase of the workout. If you’re in zone III before kicking the pace back up you need to adjust your interval intervals.

Zone III is the sh!t zone. No zone II benefits and no zone IV benefits. Unfortunately most people spend way to much time in zone III.

Seems like a pain in the ass but trust me, if you can get through the first couple months - probably even less given your current fitness level - only training in zone you’ll start seeing results and you’ll be amazed.

If your runs turn into walks in order to stay in zone II then you’re fucking walking.

After writing all this I feel like I need to take a couple month off from jiu jitsu and kick boxing and just start running in zone II.

Good luck.
 

slipped_disc

Billy Hamilton status
Jun 27, 2019
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When I was doing long distance triathlon - aka IronMan - almost all of my training was in zone 2.

Here’s the dirty little secret of zone 2 benefits. You have to train for a long long time consistently and exclusively in that zone to achieve its maximum potential.

First I’ll give you the drawbacks of this. The main drawback is that whenever you go over that zone you are somewhat regressing. Typically this isn’t a problem if you are committed to zone 2 training and you don’t do any other physical activities that elevate your heart rate above this zone. So where the problems arise for us surf bros is when you go surf and you get caught inside for a 10 wave beat down you have gone out of the zone. Every now and then it’s fine but let’s say El Niño actually kicks in and you’ve getting blasted at ocean beach for weeks on end you kind of threw your zone 2 plan out the window for the time being.

Ok, now that that is out of way the and assuming you aren’t a totally committed psychopath that feels an unquenchable need to swim/bike/run for 140.6 miles as fast as your body can do it, let’s talk about the insane benefits that you can achieve with a normal person commitment to the protocol…

Here’s what you do….(full disclosure, some of what I say below might be slightly off since I haven’t been training this way for awhile).

YOU NEED TO BE PATIENT. Track your progress over time and you’ll see amazing results.

First figure out your resting heart rate and your max. From there you can reasonably figure out your VO2 max. You can find out the formula online (it’s been awhile so I can’t rattle it off the top of my head right now). Zone 2 is found as a percentage of VO2 max. At first a rough estimate will work but as you do this your resting heat rate will decrease - assuming you’re above 50 bpm - and you VO2 max will increase which may change your target rate.

Down and dirty you can just say 180 minus your age (you seem pretty damn fit so you’d add 5 to that). For me right now my zone II is 132 bpm Using this calculation.

Note: Heart rate zones can be different for different exercises - especially at first. For me my target rates were slightly lower for cycling vs running until my cycling fitness increased, then I adjusted it up. Put simply the max heart rate I was able to achieve on the bike was about 10 bpm lower than running because my legs just couldn’t push it hard enough on the bike.

Note II: You can use training zones without a heart monitor by using RPE but I believe better results come from using a HRM.

Now, you’ll want to train in zone II exclusively for several months. This is where the patience comes into to play.

But here’s what happens…

…Say you start running at 10 min mile pace at zone II and anything above that you get out of that zone. Well that’s your pace. If your heart rate goes up after a couple miles, sorry, you have to slow down.

Your pace at zone II will increase over time. For me, my zone II pace started out at around 10 min/mile and after a couple months my pace was at 8 min/mile, then 7. At that point I added intervals and my zone II pace on race day was 6:45. Yeah, 6:45 min/mile at zone II. Could I keep that up for 26.2 after after a shampoo and a 112 mile blow dry? No. Eventually you have take off the strap and just run.

If you do it this way you will be a fucking cardio monster.

Now you can increase your top end race day speed quicker by just doing intervals but there are a couple issues with that.

1. Interval training is hard on your body.

2. The gains are short lived.

Training in zone II exclusively for extended period of time will better condition your body to handle interval training better and your gains will be more durable over time.

Put it this way….

Just intervals - high rev turbo charge 4 cylinder.

Zone II + intervals leading up to ‘race day’ - super charged V8.

Both can be made to go fast, the v8 will be more durable and require less time at the mechanics.

Oh, avoid training in zone III. Your intervals should get you quickly into zone IV and back down to zone II or I during the rest phase of the workout. If you’re in zone III before kicking the pace back up you need to adjust your interval intervals.

Zone III is the sh!t zone. No zone II benefits and no zone IV benefits. Unfortunately most people spend way to much time in zone III.

Seems like a pain in the ass but trust me, if you can get through the first couple months - probably even less given your current fitness level - only training in zone you’ll start seeing results and you’ll be amazed.

If your runs turn into walks in order to stay in zone II then you’re fucking walking.

After writing all this I feel like I need to take a couple month off from jiu jitsu and kick boxing and just start running in zone II.

Good luck.
That was an awesome write up. Were the zone 2 gains beneficial for surfing too?
 
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One-Off

Tom Curren status
Jul 28, 2005
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When I was doing long distance triathlon - aka IronMan - almost all of my training was in zone 2.

Here’s the dirty little secret of zone 2 benefits. You have to train for a long long time consistently and exclusively in that zone to achieve its maximum potential.

First I’ll give you the drawbacks of this. The main drawback is that whenever you go over that zone you are somewhat regressing. Typically this isn’t a problem if you are committed to zone 2 training and you don’t do any other physical activities that elevate your heart rate above this zone. So where the problems arise for us surf bros is when you go surf and you get caught inside for a 10 wave beat down you have gone out of the zone. Every now and then it’s fine but let’s say El Niño actually kicks in and you’ve getting blasted at ocean beach for weeks on end you kind of threw your zone 2 plan out the window for the time being.

Ok, now that that is out of way the and assuming you aren’t a totally committed psychopath that feels an unquenchable need to swim/bike/run for 140.6 miles as fast as your body can do it, let’s talk about the insane benefits that you can achieve with a normal person commitment to the protocol…

Here’s what you do….(full disclosure, some of what I say below might be slightly off since I haven’t been training this way for awhile).

YOU NEED TO BE PATIENT. Track your progress over time and you’ll see amazing results.

First figure out your resting heart rate and your max. From there you can reasonably figure out your VO2 max. You can find out the formula online (it’s been awhile so I can’t rattle it off the top of my head right now). Zone 2 is found as a percentage of VO2 max. At first a rough estimate will work but as you do this your resting heat rate will decrease - assuming you’re above 50 bpm - and you VO2 max will increase which may change your target rate.

Down and dirty you can just say 180 minus your age (you seem pretty damn fit so you’d add 5 to that). For me right now my zone II is 132 bpm Using this calculation.

Note: Heart rate zones can be different for different exercises - especially at first. For me my target rates were slightly lower for cycling vs running until my cycling fitness increased, then I adjusted it up. Put simply the max heart rate I was able to achieve on the bike was about 10 bpm lower than running because my legs just couldn’t push it hard enough on the bike.

Note II: You can use training zones without a heart monitor by using RPE but I believe better results come from using a HRM.

Now, you’ll want to train in zone II exclusively for several months. This is where the patience comes into to play.

But here’s what happens…

…Say you start running at 10 min mile pace at zone II and anything above that you get out of that zone. Well that’s your pace. If your heart rate goes up after a couple miles, sorry, you have to slow down.

Your pace at zone II will increase over time. For me, my zone II pace started out at around 10 min/mile and after a couple months my pace was at 8 min/mile, then 7. At that point I added intervals and my zone II pace on race day was 6:45. Yeah, 6:45 min/mile at zone II. Could I keep that up for 26.2 after after a shampoo and a 112 mile blow dry? No. Eventually you have take off the strap and just run.

If you do it this way you will be a fucking cardio monster.

Now you can increase your top end race day speed quicker by just doing intervals but there are a couple issues with that.

1. Interval training is hard on your body.

2. The gains are short lived.

Training in zone II exclusively for extended period of time will better condition your body to handle interval training better and your gains will be more durable over time.

Put it this way….

Just intervals - high rev turbo charge 4 cylinder.

Zone II + intervals leading up to ‘race day’ - super charged V8.

Both can be made to go fast, the v8 will be more durable and require less time at the mechanics.

Oh, avoid training in zone III. Your intervals should get you quickly into zone IV and back down to zone II or I during the rest phase of the workout. If you’re in zone III before kicking the pace back up you need to adjust your interval intervals.

Zone III is the sh!t zone. No zone II benefits and no zone IV benefits. Unfortunately most people spend way to much time in zone III.

Seems like a pain in the ass but trust me, if you can get through the first couple months - probably even less given your current fitness level - only training in zone you’ll start seeing results and you’ll be amazed.

If your runs turn into walks in order to stay in zone II then you’re fucking walking.

After writing all this I feel like I need to take a couple month off from jiu jitsu and kick boxing and just start running in zone II.

Good luck.
So, no interval day? That I will fuck up the zone 2 gains? What about resistance training? As it is now I do one 13 mile run, one 10k with 4 four minute intervals, and one barbell strength day. Just seemed like a well rounded program to me, jack of all trades, master of none.

It will be a test of mental (ego) control to be exclusively running at 10 minute mile pace for two months. It will be impossible if surfing messes that up. Besides my runs I surfed three times this week. Surfing is the reason for all my training. I can’t give that up.

What happened after you added intervals ? At that point could you do zone 2 and an interval day? And yeah intervals are hard on my right knee. I find it best to do them running uphill.
 

scdad

Legend (inyourownmind)
Mar 20, 2003
452
308
63
San Clemente, CA
I don't know if I've got this right, but I think this is similar to what Duff is saying. If you've adapted into zone 2 so your body is conditioned this way, then when you start intervals or you have to sprint paddle, etc, and your heart rate jacks up, the recovery back down is quicker and you cruise again at your lower heart rate. So I look at the Zone 2 benefits as primarily a recovery program from higher intensity work, and this is due to an efficient cardio system where you get good oxygen/CO2 exchange and heart muscle conditioning. I think it also helps with recovery from weight lifting as blood exchange and pumping etc is more efficient. That makes sense to me.

One testimonial I have seen was watching my friend's dad retire around 60, relatively out of shape. I'm not sure if he had a heart attack, but he started walking religiously to the point where it was obsessive. He would walk hours and hours a day. But, he eventually hiked Mt Whitney, hiked the appalachian trail, and got him to 95 and it wasn't until the very end that he went down quickly. I asked his son what his regular routine was when he was older (e.g., 80 and above), and he said about 20 minutes of weights every day, and regular long walks (probably zone 1 to zone 2), and some mellow bike rides around the neighborhood. Every day.

With a data point of 1, that's what I'm aiming for, but surfing will be part of that picture as long as possible. I just finished an 8 week Zone 2 training period as somewhat of a training reset. Now I'm doing the program I described above but with regular weights, and I have to say my recovery from high intensity days and daily workouts is better than it was before. I'm not sure how much better, but I'm cruising doing weights 4 days a week, and my conditioning workouts and hikes, and surfing multiple times a week.
 

Duffy LaCoronilla

Duke status
Apr 27, 2016
39,696
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So, no interval day? That I will fuck up the zone 2 gains? What about resistance training? As it is now I do one 13 mile run, one 10k with 4 four minute intervals, and one barbell strength day. Just seemed like a well rounded program to me, jack of all trades, master of none.

It will be a test of mental (ego) control to be exclusively running at 10 minute mile pace for two months. It will be impossible if surfing messes that up. Besides my runs I surfed three times this week. Surfing is the reason for all my training. I can’t give that up.

What happened after you added intervals ? At that point could you do zone 2 and an interval day? And yeah intervals are hard on my right knee. I find it best to do them running uphill.
I gave you the strict protocol. You can vary from it but the more you do the less effective it is. The benefit of the strict zone II protocol is that you will be able to produce a higher out put at a lower heart rate. 8 cylinder vs 4.

Lifting is not a problem if you keep your heart rate down. Yes it will spike but it’s for very short periods. You don’t want to do a circuit type set or - please don’t ever under any circumstances - crossfit. Fuck crossfit for whole host of reasons.

So here’s a modified plan for you….

zone II running only until your zone II pace increases by (let’s start with) 1 min/mile. So if you really are running 10 min/mile run in zone II until that pace hits 9. I‘d like to see a 2 min/mile increase from 10 (if 10 is where you’re at) but you have to decide these things.

Now your run schedule should be a 1, 2, 3 protocol and works as follows…

Day 1 - short run (distance 1)
Day 2 - medium run (distance 1x2)
Day 3 - rest
Day 4 - long run (distance 1x3)
Return to day 1
Rinse and repeat

All zone II for a couple months. You should be able to do this and not fuck yourself up. if you are feeling too tired or hurt adjust all distances down. If it‘s to easy you can adjust all distances up.

After your body is conditioned, Day 2 becomes interval day and the other two are done slow. Rest day is rest. If possible don’t do jack sh!t.

As for surfing you should just quit altogether. Surfing sucks.

Haha. Joke. Surf all you want.

Btw, I know a guy in his early 60s who walks - just walks - daily for an hour or two and on Saturdays plays soccer and if no game does a few sprints on the grass. He rides a bike whenever he can for commutes and picking up groceries but never just goes for a ride for riding sake, and he surfs.

Once a year he does the SB triathlon and does pretty fucking good on that “training“ protocol alone.

The main takeaway here is to get your body to adjust to the zone II protocol and once you that it’s just a matter of maintenance.

This protocol changes your body on the cellular level.
 

One-Off

Tom Curren status
Jul 28, 2005
14,332
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I gave you the strict protocol. You can vary from it but the more you do the less effective it is. The benefit of the strict zone II protocol is that you will be able to produce a higher out put at a lower heart rate. 8 cylinder vs 4.

Lifting is not a problem if you keep your heart rate down. Yes it will spike but it’s for very short periods. You don’t want to do a circuit type set or - please don’t ever under any circumstances - crossfit. Fuck crossfit for whole host of reasons.

So here’s a modified plan for you….

zone II running only until your zone II pace increases by (let’s start with) 1 min/mile. So if you really are running 10 min/mile run in zone II until that pace hits 9. I‘d like to see a 2 min/mile increase from 10 (if 10 is where you’re at) but you have to decide these things.

Now your run schedule should be a 1, 2, 3 protocol and works as follows…

Day 1 - short run (distance 1)
Day 2 - medium run (distance 1x2)
Day 3 - rest
Day 4 - long run (distance 1x3)
Return to day 1
Rinse and repeat

All zone II for a couple months. You should be able to do this and not fuck yourself up. if you are feeling too tired or hurt adjust all distances down. If it‘s to easy you can adjust all distances up.

After your body is conditioned, Day 2 becomes interval day and the other two are done slow. Rest day is rest. If possible don’t do jack sh!t.

As for surfing you should just quit altogether. Surfing sucks.

Haha. Joke. Surf all you want.

Btw, I know a guy in his early 60s who walks - just walks - daily for an hour or two and on Saturdays plays soccer and if no game does a few sprints on the grass. He rides a bike whenever he can for commutes and picking up groceries but never just goes for a ride for riding sake, and he surfs.

Once a year he does the SB triathlon and does pretty fucking good on that “training“ protocol alone.

The main takeaway here is to get your body to adjust to the zone II protocol and once you that it’s just a matter of maintenance.

This protocol changes your body on the cellular level.

Cool. Thanks for sharing.

I think it this can match what I'm already doing. Going to be weird running slow.

Sat or Sun- (run1) Hike. We hike almost every weekend 3-5 miles. I've never worn a heart monitor on the hikes. I'll do that tomorrow. I'm guessing it will be zone 2. Never get winded. Always "conversational."

Mon- (run2) 10k (becomes interval day after a couple months)

Tuesday- rest or bodyweight

Wednesday- (run 3) 13 mile

Thursday- rest

Friday- barbell

Surfing- any day the conditions permit, generally 2-3 x week. As you know there are usually more long flat spells than long runs of good surf. I could add an extra run day during long flat spells. Also Tuesdays and Thursdays I could do my bodyweight strength routine- pull ups push ups, ytwl's and ab rolls. I imagine same rule applies there as with barbell- avoid prolonged spikes in HR.

ps I had a grandfather who lived to 103. Made the cover of the local newspaper's sports page because he was playing full rounds of golf at 97. He was fully autonomous until 99. Always did a walk around the park in the evening. I think he couldhave lived longer if he didn't drink gin all the time.
 

One-Off

Tom Curren status
Jul 28, 2005
14,332
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33.8N - 118.4W
OK. Did a short (4 mile) hike with the family and now know hiking is not zone 2 for me.

I determined the zone 2 with this formula- max heart rate - resting heart x .7 and then add resting heart rate for uuper end . For lower end same formula but x 6. My zone 2 using this formula is 125-135 bpm.

Another formula was simply 60-70% of max heart rate which would be 100-118 for me, but that seems low. Duffy's formula was 180 - age +5 = 123.

No matter which formula used hiking was zone 1 for me. On our hike the highest my HR got was 105 during a short rocky climb. Normal climbing was 85-95. Flat terrain was around 80. Downhill low 70's.


I think I'll just do two long steady state, easy pace, zone 2 runs- each week one 13 miles, one 8-10. I'll try that for a couple months and see what happens. If I don't see significnt improvement I'll go back to one interval run a week.
 
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One-Off

Tom Curren status
Jul 28, 2005
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33.8N - 118.4W
I did my first 13 mile zone 2 run. Kind of weird running that slow. I did it in 2:13, just over 10:00 mile pace. Yikes.
It was weird never getting even slightly winded. Didn't like getting passed. But after a while I just setlled into it and it was kind of pleasant never getting tired, not even at the end. In fact the end of my run is uphill and to stay in the zone (I used 125-130) I had to walk the hill.

We'll see how this progresses.

Duffy, according to your understanding, would a short sprint at the end, just enough to touch max HR, wipe out the gains of a 2 hour 13 minute run?
 
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sh3

Michael Peterson status
Dec 1, 2008
2,584
3,496
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I did my first 13 mile zone 2 run. Kind of weird running that slow. I did it in 2:13, about 10:30 mile pace. Yikes.
It was weird never getting even slightly winded. Didn't like getting passed. But after a while I just setlled into it and it was kind of pleasant never getting tired, not even at the end. In fact the end of my run is uphill and to stay in the zone (I used 125-130) I had to walk the hill.

We'll see how this progresses.

Duffy, according to your understanding, would a short sprint at the end, just enough to touch max HR, wipe out the gains of a 2 hour 13 minute run?
DO NOT SPRINT AT THE END. Maintain that low HR. It's an incredible way to train... for men. Doesn't work as well with women.

I train this endurance crap for a living. You'll end your workout feeling like you can do it again, and that's kind of the point. Keep doing the training. When you do another 13 mile zone 2 run in a month from now, see if you can do it faster. The point is to go as fast as you can without popping the HR. If you're faster, then you've made yourself stronger because you've used the same effort but now you're faster. It's training and it works really well.

Don't intend to take over the thread, but do know I've done a lot of endurance crap, and successfully. Low HR training is very real.
 

Duffy LaCoronilla

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Apr 27, 2016
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OK. Did a short (4 mile) hike with the family and now know hiking is not zone 2 for me.

I determined the zone 2 with this formula- max heart rate - resting heart x .7 and then add resting heart rate for uuper end . For lower end same formula but x 6. My zone 2 using this formula is 125-135 bpm.

Another formula was simply 60-70% of max heart rate which would be 100-118 for me, but that seems low. Duffy's formula was 180 - age +5 = 123.

No matter which formula used hiking was zone 1 for me. On our hike the highest my HR got was 105 during a short rocky climb. Normal climbing was 85-95. Flat terrain was around 80. Downhill low 70's.


I think I'll just do two long steady state, easy pace, zone 2 runs- each week one 13 miles, one 8-10. I'll try that for a couple months and see what happens. If I don't see significnt improvement I'll go back to one interval run a week.
Two zone II workouts a week ain’t gonna do sh!t.
 
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sh3

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I try to explain the method to so many athletes. They're used to going hard every time; that's how we were all brought up. When I explain a month or two of this, they just can't seem to compute it sometimes. But once it's done, the lightbulbs go off and they rave. It just takes some serious dedication to the result.
 
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One-Off

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I try to explain the method to so many athletes. They're used to going hard every time; that's how we were all brought up. When I explain a month or two of this, they just can't seem to compute it sometimes. But once it's done, the lightbulbs go off and they rave. It just takes some serious dedication to the result.
Duffy said two zone 2 work outs a week won't cut it. What if they are both 13 mile runs, so four+ total hours a week in that steady state? Or maybe one two hour run and two one hour runs?

By the way, I'm not a professional athlete by any means. Just want to keep surfing as long as possible, also have a fmaily history- dad died young of heart attack- and I was recently diagnosed with a heart condition - myocardial bridge. So cardio is kind of important to me.

At the end (15:10) of this video ( which caught my eye because I'm dealing with a mom with severe vascular dementia) Dr. Attia says if you can only exercise three hours a week then it should be- one hour of low intensity cardio, one hour strength, one hour of intervals. That is basically what I was doing , only it was 2 hours low/high intensity cardio, 1-1/2 hour strength, one hour intervals. I am reluctant to give up the interval work because I've read that even just touching max heart rate once a week has tremendous health benefits. Interval work increases capillarization and may promote arterial collateralization (mixed results in research). This collateralization could be a life saver for me with my condition.


If the zone 2 program is unrealistic for me from a time point of view I might just go back to the 1-1-1 program. But I would like to give it a try.

And none of this includes surfing. For example I've just cleared my calender for the next three days in order to devote my energy to surf. Duffy said above that a true el nino year will wipe out zone 2 gains. Maybe I should have done the zone 2 work in July, August, September, October when it was pretty much flat. Maybe i should wait for summer?

"Endurace crap?" Sounds almost lkke you don't like it?
 
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sh3

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Is their an idiots guide to this?

Seems incredibly complicated.
Idiots guide: Train in Zone 2 for a month. Don't worry about it when you lift or do resistance training, but don't go over your HR threshold when doing cardio. Have something that is your baseline "event," for example the rower or a 13.1 mile run. The idea is to go as fast as you can without spiking that HR.

Then spend a week doing high intensity intervals. Short ones with sprints.

Take two days off. Then do a HR session of your "baseline event." See where you are. See if you're doing the same thing (not going over HR) but faster. if you are, your heart and your body are stronger.

That's a simplistic guide for the everyman. If you're training TO a certain event, this advice will vary.