Tomo MPH

[retodd]

After trying just about every eps tech out there it really boils down to ;

Try it for yourself and find out .

Just cause your bro likes it doesn't mean you will

 

[stnava]

thanks - am convinced it's not out of the ordinary. at the same time, I do wonder how the same shape in one of the XTR blanks vs "Standard stringerless EPS" vs one of the firewire techs would compare. guess that's a tough comparison to get given all the other variables but maybe noel salas has some info on this.

 

[Havoc]

superflex is one of the best eps poxy combos. xtr next. curious to try retodds new thomo thech

 

[stnava]

@[B]maxfieldmiles[/B] yup - that's the type of breakdown I was hoping for - makes perfect sense. I have a 5'6 stringered XTR Death Star (shaped by DT for a dude named maxwel) which I really like and prefer over the various sized FST vanguards that I owned in the past. seems faster and with more natural flex than the FST (though the 5'6 VG was great for me: am 5'11 175). with the right fins ( large, upright ), the board flows / turns on a dime and handles uneven conditions. all good stuff but not sure I could get that same or similar board made again. if I rephrase your points in terms of (+) and (-) then I get:

1. 1. Firewire LFT : (+) good reproduction of shapes and "natural" flex; (-) some quality control issues, below average durability
2. 2. Firewire Helium: (+) good durability, good for clean conditions good if you like flex; (-) depends on how much flex you like and if you can control the tech given the conditions
3. 3. XTR ( ignoring that there are many types of XTR ): (+) water-tight blank, predictable flex/response, lots of shapes (-) quality control issues for the shapes and glass / lack of fine-tuning
4. 4. TomoTech (AUS) : (+) official DT custom shapes that are light and offer some control of flex ; (-) issues with chatter in sub-optimal conditions (e.g. onshore slop ), floaty and can lead to difficulty engaging rail when the surface has bump

for all the above - and assuming you've sized the board correctly for height/weight/skill/surfing style - the deep concave and channels contribute to excellent lift but can also produce issues in chop. moreover, the fins have a large impact on performance. much of this is probably the case ( in general ) but makes things a little tougher for the average consumer who is investigating DT shapes and sees all the construction choices. that being said - good to have choices!

 

[ANIMA]

Just to add my 2 cents...
I've been fortunate enough to ride a Hydroshort in LFT, Helium, XTR and Tomo Tech... and the best out of the bunch was the FST Helium Tech. Others might not agree or have the same experience but i've talked to Johnny Norris from La Jolla (who is a former CT surfer that rips and is really hard on boards) and he said the FW Helium Hydroshort one of the most durable boards he's ever ridden and the Hydroshort is one of his favorite models in the Tomo/Firewire lineup. Timmy Reyes also is hard on boards and he claims the Helium to be the fastest board he's ever ridden and indestructible. Timmy's also had that board (in the Helium FST tech) in some heavy heavy waves, and even though it's light and has a lot of flex it really showcases the tech's versatility from small SoCal waves to big Hawaii waves.

I think @maxfieldmiles made a lot of valid points, but as an average surfer that surfs mostly SoCal, i prefer the Helium 1st, Tomo Tech 2nd, XTR 3rd and LFT 4th.

 

[ANIMA]

@ANIMA I would agree that the Hydroshort in Helium is arguably the best Hydroshort you can get on the market right now in terms of durability, long lasting torsional flex, and the most consistent finely tuned shape with low foiled rails compared to Tomo tech & XTR. I would agree FW in Helium is best suited for mostly clean, smaller SoCal surf and the way the board bends back and forth through turns makes it easy to generate speed on top of the lift built into the design already. Timmy does push the stock Helium/LFT Hydroshorts and LFT Hydronauts in heavy surf in Hawaii and Mex. Johnny Norris is a great surfer although he never made it on to the CT, I believe he put some years in on the QS but never qualified for the tour, he rips on the Helium Hydroshort don't get me wrong. I agree with the key testimonials from the pros on assessments that the Helium Hydroshort is super fast and very durable. Although I'm not sure having seen a lot of clips of both of them riding the Helium Hydroshort & Hydronaut in Hawaii, Mex, SoCal and the wavepool that they are doing their best surfing aside from going fast, as all Tomos should.

I have ridden the Helium Hydroshort and LFT Hydronauts between Hawaii, Socal and Mexican points. The Helium Hydoshort and LFT Hydronaut feel so good as designs under foot, until I ride them in certain conditions in Hawaii where there is more power to the wave, surface warble, offshore wind, side shore texture or any kind of bump on the wave. They have skipped out, gotten held up in the wind, felt too corky to keep a rail engaged at high speed or flexed too much in a direction I didn't intend making it harder to trust on rail. I think the culprit is that EPS is more sensitive when responding to texture, power or imperfections on a wave. Stiffer fins definitely help mitigate/neutralize the increased sensitivity of EPS when you want them to settle down. Notice that Timmy almost always used the AM Techflex in his Helium Hydroshort, very stiff speed controlling fin.

My theory is that surfers like Timmy Reyes, Johnny Norris, Kelly Slater, Gavin Gillette, Stu Kennedy, Sebastian Williams etc who rip on FW Tomos are able to better adjust to the sensitivity of EPS given their ability and push them further than most surfers can, as evident in all the clips. However I would love to see a board test where all of these pros get a chance to test drive a Hydroshort, Hydronaut or any Tomo made in a high quality PU foam with the best manufacturing practices. I feel like PU would have better damping to handle the high speed a Tomo design can generate and increase the ease of putting that high speed on rail with more control, especially in locations like Hawaii or anywhere with extra juice.

Totally agree. But I think the PU sacrifices the flex and weight and durability that EPS/Epoxy offers.
For example: If you are a surfer that surfs in the morning and the waves are usually HH or below, I think the EPS would be the way to go. If you are a surfer that surfs in the afternoons or when there is a lot of wind, chop or texture, then I would presume PU or XTR or LFT would be a better option.

How is that Varial foam? Is that a dense foam like XTR/PU?

 

[Retropete]

Had a chance to test how the Webber flex twins work for you yet?

 

[JDJ]

Varial is a good foam and could compliment Dan’s boards, but it would push the price point up significantly.

 

[ANIMA]

Had a chance to test how the Webber flex twins work for you yet?

The surf has been pretty small, so its hard to say. But they feel good so far. They really loosen up the board. I think they are going to go good with with the new board considering it has all those channels and the double diamond tail for grip.

 

[feralseppo]

Looks like the Thompson’s were beaten to the Power Drive fin invention by 20-30 years.

 

[brainfqrt]

Totally agree. But I think the PU sacrifices the flex and weight and durability that EPS/Epoxy offers.
For example: If you are a surfer that surfs in the morning and the waves are usually HH or below, I think the EPS would be the way to go. If you are a surfer that surfs in the afternoons or when there is a lot of wind, chop or texture, then I would presume PU or XTR or LFT would be a better option.

How is that Varial foam? Is that a dense foam like XTR/PU?

I work 7-3 in Oz and surf in the arvos, and I completely agree with that!
I've had my hand on a couple old chilli Xtrs steps ups but none survived more than two surfs.
My evo in lft is as good as any PU though even with lots of texture, it's quite impressive for such a light board. Might be because of the shortness.

 

[ANIMA]

Looks like the Thompson’s were beaten to the Power Drive fin invention by 20-30 years.


View attachment 94915

Thats not really the same style fin Greenough and Thomson made, but its possible Greenough may have seen that fin and drew some inspiration from it? Who knows...

To my understanding the hatchet style fin that led to the powerdrive fin was invented by Greenough for his knee board, and then once he traveled to Australia and met Mark Thomson, they collaborated together and Mark was the one that modified/adapted the hatchet style fin for shortboard and that is how the powerdrive fins are credited to Mark Thomson. It was Mark that first adapted and used those types of fins on a shortboard.

Its actually been pointed out here on this forum that the picture featured on the bottom of the True Ames website is Mark Thomsons personal surfboard with a tri-fin powerdrive fin setup. It appears that Mark Thomson made the board in the photo himself, and made and glassed those fins himself. The True Ames website is using the photo (i believe without his permission) and claiming it as their own creation. If I was Mark Thomson i would demand that Chuck Ames remove the picture and/or the correct the storyline on the website. The True Ames website doesnt mention Mark at all and actually credits Chuck Ames as the one that used Greenough's fin as a thruster design on a shortboard and then shows Marks board.

The whole blog section storyline on True Ames website re the hatchet fin seem to be inaccurate.
It would be interesting to hear what Chuck Ames has to say about it.

Correction: Here is the website URL.

GEORGE GREENOUGH SURF FINS: History of The Stage 6 Fin

Above: a photo of some of George Greenough's original designs for the paddle fin, and a collection of some windsurf boards and molds. ( Spoon and Chopper ) He used to make almost all of his fins, boards and other equipment, and was an innovator who enjoyed creating and reinventing. Here is a...

www.trueames.com

 

[feralseppo]

Thats not really the same style fin Greenough and Thomson made, but its possible Greenough may have seen that fin and drew some inspiration from it? Who knows...

To my understanding the hatchet style fin that led to the powerdrive fin was invented by Greenough for his knee board, and then once he traveled to Australia and met Mark Thomson, they collaborated together and Mark was the one that modified/adapted the hatchet style fin for shortboard and that is how the powerdrive fins are credited to Mark Thomson. It was Mark that first adapted and used those types of fins on a shortboard.

Its actually been pointed out here on this forum that the picture featured on the bottom of the True Ames website is Mark Thomsons personal surfboard with a tri-fin powerdrive fin setup. It appears that Mark Thomson made the board in the photo himself, and made and glassed those fins himself. The True Ames website is using the photo (i believe without his permission) and claiming it as their own creation. If I was Mark Thomson i would demand that Chuck Ames remove the picture and/or the correct the storyline on the website. The True Ames website doesnt mention Mark at all and actually credits Chuck Ames as the one that used Greenough's fin as a thruster design on a shortboard and then shows Marks board.

The whole blog section storyline on True Ames website re the hatchet fin seem to be inaccurate.
It would be interesting to hear what Chuck Ames has to say about it.

GEORGE GREENOUGH SURF FINS: History of The Stage 6 Fin

Above: a photo of some of George Greenough's original designs for the paddle fin, and a collection of some windsurf boards and molds. ( Spoon and Chopper ) He used to make almost all of his fins, boards and other equipment, and was an innovator who enjoyed creating and reinventing. Here is a...

www.trueames.com

And you have personal knowledge of all this I am sure.

 

[ChaseTMP]

...Johnny Norris from La Jolla (who is a former CT surfer that rips and is really hard on boards) and he said the FW Helium Hydroshort one of the most durable boards he's ever ridden and the Hydroshort is one of his favorite models in the Tomo/Firewire lineup...

While I'm sure he's a very good surfer, I don't think he (Johnn was ever on the CT, just the WQS.

Johnny Noris Surfer Bio | Age, Height, Videos & Results

Stay in the know and top of the action from pro surfer Johnny Noris. Find videos, photos, age, height and the latest tour results and rankings here.

www.worldsurfleague.com

 

[ChaseTMP]

Totally agree. But I think the PU sacrifices the flex and weight and durability that EPS/Epoxy offers.
For example: If you are a surfer that surfs in the morning and the waves are usually HH or below, I think the EPS would be the way to go. If you are a surfer that surfs in the afternoons or when there is a lot of wind, chop or texture, then I would presume PU or XTR or LFT would be a better option.

How is that Varial foam? Is that a dense foam like XTR/PU?

Varial is supposedly dense, but my just over a year old CI NB2 dents like nobody's business. The nice thing is you can heat gun out random dents. I've only done so in non weight-bearing areas. I hate when I get one out towards the rail on the deck and it's right where I carry the board and just took a decent sized one out two nights ago.

 

[oeste858]

While I'm sure he's a very good surfer, I don't think he (Johnn was ever on the CT, just the WQS.

Johnny Noris Surfer Bio | Age, Height, Videos & Results

Stay in the know and top of the action from pro surfer Johnny Noris. Find videos, photos, age, height and the latest tour results and rankings here.

www.worldsurfleague.com

Yeah, he rips all over town, but not close to CT-level. If he was, he wouldn't be selling houses (which I'm told, he's very good at, as well).

 

[oeste858]

5'9 x 19 7/8" x 2 5/8" (33L) X-wing. From Deforest's reports on his new one, I think it may be pretty similar except for the 3-pointed tail instead of double-diamond. Hoping it shines in weak surf.
Anyone who's ridden a Deathstar have any fin recommendations? @jkb @gbarsby3
Does that tail grip as much as the battail on a SciPhi/SP2/Cymatic? I had to underfin those to compensate (medium instead of large).

 

[JDJ]

That looks epic, congrats

 

[JDJ]

Large AMs. Or Pivot larges, if you like that style

 

[griffinsurfboard]

5'9 x 19 7/8" x 2 5/8" (33L) X-wing. From Deforest's reports on his new one, I think it may be pretty similar except for the 3-pointed tail instead of double-diamond. Hoping it shines in weak surf.
Anyone who's ridden a Deathstar have any fin recommendations? @jkb @gbarsby3
Does that tail grip as much as the battail on a SciPhi/SP2/Cymatic? I had to underfin those to compensate (medium instead of large).
View attachment 96000View attachment 96001View attachment 96002

If it had FCS plugs I could make that thing go nuts