An EV costing $80k should tell you everything you need to know about supplies of inputs.
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Tesla engineering HQ leaving Texas to return to California, Musk announces
- Thread starter plasticbertrand
- Start date
Or they just charge a lot because they can. If people buy it and there are few competitors, that’s just capitalism doing its thing
That said I do agree about the broader issue of input sourcing. The cobalt mining is a environmental and human rights major issue that the media won’t touch. How . . . Unusual
You're a sales guy. There is an optimal price-point at which you make maximal profits vs. volume of sale. How many car consoomers have $80k for a truck?Or they just charge a lot because they can. If people buy it and there are few competitors, that’s just capitalism doing its thing
I posted an entire talk on this in my "Your pretty energy transition is going to hell" thread. No one refuted a word of it. I got a few downvotes and some hurf blurf about negativity. Seems like we're full steam ahead on our delusion, much like our covidianism in 2020.That said I do agree about the broader issue of input sourcing. The cobalt mining is a environmental and human rights major issue that the media won’t touch. How . . . Unusual
$80k is not chump change by any means but for the price of a new truck nowadays it's not too far off. People were going on waiting lists to buy Ford Raptors for around that.
Sad
This is due to the car semiconductor shortage stemming from pent-up demand due to worldwide covidianism (car semiconductors are made in Taiwan and China) and declining supplies to the semiconductor industry such as neon due to our war with Russia.
Also, do you need semiconductors to make EVs?
Guys, look at the price of a new Tacoma, or F150. Forget F350, or 2500 Dodge. Truck prices have been rising since they became fashionable for all the bros in the late 90s….
yes, market driven and that’s fine. I’m not going to pay $60k for a Tundra either.
I agree that the materials used for batteries are mined in sketchy ways, but all mines are disasters. So are some oil fields, junkyards, construction sites that terrace most of California….. where do you draw the line?
Pointing out EVs and the need for materials is moot when you consider all the other things that go into making cars/homes/phones. It’s not like Ford is building gas cars out of fairy dust.
yes, market driven and that’s fine. I’m not going to pay $60k for a Tundra either.
I agree that the materials used for batteries are mined in sketchy ways, but all mines are disasters. So are some oil fields, junkyards, construction sites that terrace most of California….. where do you draw the line?
Pointing out EVs and the need for materials is moot when you consider all the other things that go into making cars/homes/phones. It’s not like Ford is building gas cars out of fairy dust.
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Of course, but that applies to all vehicles. Aren't there still low end Teslas in the $40-50k range? It doesn't cost them double to build out the frame. Right now there are few alternatives so they charge what they want.This is due to the car semiconductor shortage stemming from pent-up demand due to worldwide covidianism (car semiconductors are made in Taiwan and China) and declining supplies to the semiconductor industry such as neon due to our war with Russia.
Also, do you need semiconductors to make EVs?
In regards to Tesla, Musk has said that the cars are only part of his plans. House batteries, solar roofs, and other projects are his real goal.
Theres also other battery tech companies out there that are trying less environmentally damaging materials and production.
The market “should“ drive the innovation forward and as the technology evolves it will become more efficient and intrusive. Remember, the model T and the Wright brothers? We’ve come a long way since then and EVs will continue to improve.
The government just needs to leave it alone and let the companies and consumers drive it forward.
Theres also other battery tech companies out there that are trying less environmentally damaging materials and production.
The market “should“ drive the innovation forward and as the technology evolves it will become more efficient and intrusive. Remember, the model T and the Wright brothers? We’ve come a long way since then and EVs will continue to improve.
The government just needs to leave it alone and let the companies and consumers drive it forward.
yeah, I mean, it's totally weird how no one wants to take him seriously and engage, right?Sad
fkn lol
the most important question, for me, is why the fk are Tesla drivers so fkn awful?!
Prius and BMW drivers seem quaint now compared to these donkeyfkers
I'm not sure what's going on in the light truck market. There's a lot of demand for older light trucks and they still sell for a lot.
Take a look at the videos of cobalt mines in the Congo and get back to us.
How common are the materials for ICEs vs EVs? How much more will we need to increase mining of the inputs to the latter to make EVs common? Copper is a good place to start since there's no substitute.
As usual, you are ignoring what EVs are replacing. You are also ignoring the fact that cobalt in lithium-ion batteries is quickly being replaced by Manganese-based batteries and other emerging technologies that don't require cobalt.That said I do agree about the broader issue of input sourcing. The cobalt mining is a environmental and human rights major issue that the media won’t touch. How . . . Unusual
Manganese is Replacing Cobalt: How This Mineral Is Saving the Future of the Electric Vehicle Industry | Entrepreneur
Manganese expert Martin Kepman, CEO of Manganese X Energy Corporation, discusses how manganese is replacing cobalt
www.entrepreneur.com
“Take a look at the videos of cobalt mines in the Congo and get back to us….”
I’m not saying it isn’t destructive. Are you saying bulldozing mountains for new homes is not? I worked for national home builders before I started making surfboards and we destroyed natural places daily for profit.
Just because those mountains are now covered in McMansions doesn’t mean they aren’t destroyed. Plus, there’s increased run off polluting the rivers and oceans that wasn’t there. How many times did OB get closed due to run off? That’s not just because dogs are pooping….
My point was that yes, mining is destructive, but pointing the finger at it and not accepting the other everyday destruction is a little misleading
I’m not saying it isn’t destructive. Are you saying bulldozing mountains for new homes is not? I worked for national home builders before I started making surfboards and we destroyed natural places daily for profit.
Just because those mountains are now covered in McMansions doesn’t mean they aren’t destroyed. Plus, there’s increased run off polluting the rivers and oceans that wasn’t there. How many times did OB get closed due to run off? That’s not just because dogs are pooping….
My point was that yes, mining is destructive, but pointing the finger at it and not accepting the other everyday destruction is a little misleading
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No.
It's a matter of degree and scale, isn't it? Aside from the destructiveness, there's also no way we're going to be able to scale the mining to meet WEF targets for EVs and "green" energy. No way in hell.
I believe Musk has stated that the cars were just a way to kickstart funding for his other ventures. He had a window to exploit for EVs and he did. Now that window is closing and he is off to other things.
How about the autopilots going batshit and crashing the car? Saint Elon beta testing his tech with his customer lives? What a genius!
I remember reading somewhere about a battery manufacturer that was building solid batteries, as in no liquid. Somehow they were handling the heat build up.
Ford has also started (or is about to) build lithium free batteries. Less range, but also lower cost to consumers.
It’s only a matter of time before the technology surpasses the need for exotic materials.
now, if the government would stop forcing them into their agendas, I believe that they would naturally become more desirable just by letting the market act.
I never thought I’d own an EV, let alone a Chevy. But it has been the best car I’ve ever owned, next to my Montero. 115k miles and only had a couple flat tires and changed the 12v battery once since 2012. Thats amazing for any car.
Ford has also started (or is about to) build lithium free batteries. Less range, but also lower cost to consumers.
It’s only a matter of time before the technology surpasses the need for exotic materials.
now, if the government would stop forcing them into their agendas, I believe that they would naturally become more desirable just by letting the market act.
I never thought I’d own an EV, let alone a Chevy. But it has been the best car I’ve ever owned, next to my Montero. 115k miles and only had a couple flat tires and changed the 12v battery once since 2012. Thats amazing for any car.
Take a look at the periodic table. You options for cations are on the left:
Could be sodium. Could be Cesium. Anything that results in even lower energy density is a non-starter.
Let's leave aside the issue of rare earth minerals and focus on a common one. We need a lot more copper for EVs. Copper is not rare and we've been mining it for thousands of years. How much more will we need to achieve the WEF EV targets/mandates? Has that percentage increase in Cu mining ever happened in human history?