Technology and Dissenting Opinions

grapedrink

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I gave it a quick look. What does that have to do with big tech monitoring information? I don't see the connection.
Yes, it was a tangent in response to another tangent from PB, "You are constantly conflating lies, bigotry and incitement of unrest with dissenting opinions."

I gave an example of a dissenting opinion that was framed as bigotry by the regressive left. Something they excel at that is cheerleaded by several posters here.
 

StuAzole

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Yes, it was a tangent in response to another tangent from PB, "You are constantly conflating lies, bigotry and incitement of unrest with dissenting opinions."

I gave an example of a dissenting opinion that was framed as bigotry by the regressive left. Something they excel at that is cheerleaded by several posters here.
Then way to hijack the thread.
 

plasticbertrand

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I've never said that free speech should be free of consequences. What I've said is that the punishment is often grossly disproportionate to the actual "offense", and is often driven by emotion and mob rule.
in other words you don't like the social norms and rules and you don't want them to apply to the people on your end of the political spectrum.

It's none of you fucking business what Twitter or some University rules are.
If you don't like it, don't participate, there are many other avenues to explore.

Assimilate or GTFO, NPD.
 

crustBrother

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From YouTube.

Not from the internet.
Putting something on the internet is as meaningful as saying something out loud on a crowded street. If you want to be heard by a large audience, you have to utilize the major platforms. If you want to drive important social changes you have to have a large audience.

Look at the role that big tech platforms played in enabling the BLM protests. Look at the role it played in the Arab Spring. Those kinds of grassroots movements are too important to risk something similar *not* happening because some big tech board room decided to block the flow of associated information.
 
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plasticbertrand

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Free free to look up the story- maybe you should do that before you jump to conclusions and try to lecture me about it.

To be clear, there was nothing posted online, however a private email was forwarded and made public and the pitchfork mob followed, both virtually and IRL. My point was that it illustrates the same phenomena, regardless of whether it was posted online or not .
"Pitchfork Mob" = Social Norms

I'm sorry this is happening to you.
 

plasticbertrand

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Putting something on the internet is as meaningful as saying something out loud on a crowded street. If you want to be heard by a large audience, you have to utilize the major platforms. If you want to drive important social changes you have to have a large audience.

Look at the role that big tech platforms played in enabling the BLM protests. Look at the role it played in the Arab Spring. Those kinds of grassroots movements are too important to risk something similar *not* happening because big tech decided to block the flow of associated information.
The problem is that the same people who don't like Big Tech also dislike government regulations.

This is what government job is, to stop corporate conglomerates from taking over our lives.

But that would be soushulism, lolol
 

grapedrink

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in other words you don't like the social norms and rules and you don't want them to apply to the people on your end of the political spectrum.
No, I think that punishment should be tied to the actual offense, not the perception of an offense or someones perverse and politically motivated interpretation of it. Which is how these sort of disputes used to be settled before social media.

Most people think that sort of behavior is abhorrent and rediculous, they are just afraid to say it because psychopaths like you lump them into the same category as actual racists. So no, those aren't social norms.

It's none of you fucking business what Twitter or some University rules are.
If you don't like it, don't participate, there are many other avenues to explore.
Bret Weinstein didn't break any university rules, nor did he say anything racist. The fact that you still cannot say what he did wrong to deserve being forced out of his job shows that I am right and that you are full of sh!t. Your continued gaslighting of the events, where he literally had his life threatened and was forced to step down, solidify my point.
 
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crustBrother

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The problem is that the same people who don't like Big Tech also dislike government regulations.
I actually don't dislike big tech. Its an amazingly powerful tool that give us access to information and knowledge on a scale never seen before by humanity. And I don't think the EU created GDPR because they dislike big tech. I think they created it because they are a little bit ahead of the US in evolving their institutions in light of the new reality created by big tech.
 

plasticbertrand

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And I don't think the EU created GDPR because they dislike big tech. I think they created it because they are a little bit ahead of the US in evolving their institutions in light of the new reality created by big tech.
That's the key.

I think the resistance to this happening in the US would be too great to overcome in the present political climate.
 
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plasticbertrand

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Most people think that sort of behavior is abhorrent and rediculous, they are just afraid to say it because psychopaths like you lump them into the same category as actual racists. So no, those aren't social norms.
They obviously ARE the social norms, otherwise there would be no consequences.
Social norms and rules are constantly evolving and changing and this is what you obviously have a problem with.

The fact that there are certain things that you are "afraid to say" is a good thing, this is how social norms work in real life and internet should be no different.

I don't understand where this notion that internet should be any different than real life came from, can you explain?


Bret Weinstein didn't break any university rules, nor did he say anything racist. The fact that you still cannot say what he did wrong to deserve being forced out of his job shows that I am right and that you are full of sh!t. Your continued gaslighting of the events, where he literally had his life threatened and was forced to step down, solidify my point.
I don't care what Bret Weinstein did wrong, University has every right to fire him and people who were unhappy with what he said also have every right to be unhappy.
Those are the consequences of free speech.

IT

IS

NOT

UP

TO

YOU

TO

DECIDE
 
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grapedrink

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They obviously ARE the social norms, otherwise there would be no consequences.
Social norms and rules are constantly evolving and changing and this is what you obviously have a problem with.
Again, I have no problem with someone having their feet held to the fire for something that they actually said or did. However if you are going to crucify someone, you should be able to articulate why what that person said or did is wrong or racist. If you can't, then it probably wasn't wrong or racist in the first place. Which nobody has done for BW.

The fact that there are certain things that you are "afraid to say" is a good thing, this is how social norms work in real life and internet should be no different.
What I said that the people who think that behavior is insane, which is most people, are afraid to call out the nutjobs and the woke police because they fear that they are the next target merely for calling them out.

I don't care what Bret Weinstein did wrong, University has every right to fire him and people who were unhappy with what he said also have every right to be unhappy.
Those are the consequences of free speech.
He wasn't fired, he resigned with a settlement. Of course they have a right to fire him, but they were obviously in the wrong in the way they handled it, otherwise they would not have paid him out.
 

plasticbertrand

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Again, I have no problem with someone having their feet held to the fire for something that they actually said or did. However if you are going to crucify someone, you should be able to articulate why what that person said or did is wrong or racist. If you can't, then it probably wasn't wrong or racist in the first place. Which nobody has done for BW.


What I said that the people who think that behavior is insane, which is most people, are afraid to call out the nutjobs and the woke police because they fear that they are the next target merely for calling them out.


He wasn't fired, he resigned with a settlement. Of course they have a right to fire him, but they were obviously in the wrong in the way they handled it, otherwise they would not have paid him out.

All this is just your opinion. You don't decide what's offensive to others.

I'm not sure why is this so hard for you to understand, it's such a simple concept.

Like every narcissist, you have a problem with understanding what other people may be going through and are too ready to dismiss how others feel.

That's why "fück your feelings" was a perfect slogan for Trump.
It caused his rise and fall.
 
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afoaf

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I actually don't dislike big tech. Its an amazingly powerful tool that give us access to information and knowledge on a scale never seen before by humanity. And I don't think the EU created GDPR because they dislike big tech. I think they created it because they are a little bit ahead of the US in evolving their institutions in light of the new reality created by big tech.
the EU beats us every time because they put the consumer before business

GDPR is great for managing your personal data

but it also highlights the point that our data exhaust is their product; it is the means
by which these platforms are able to profit

there is a profit motive to allow the widest audience and the most amount of content
and activity on a given social platform. it is not in their financial interests to deplatform
which is why they are circumspect about when/where they employ that mechanism

that is why, in my opinion, this entire argument is a red herring of epic proportions

social media wants you there...if you got kicked off, it has been shown time and time again
that it was for good goddamn reason.
 
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grapedrink

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All this is just your opinion. You don't decide what's offensive to others.
Ok cool. So if a psychopath decides they don't like someone, or is butthurt for being called out for their own racism like the professor BW initially had the disagreement with, it's 100% acceptable to accuse them of being racist, threaten them, and force them out of their job. Doesn't surprise me that you area okay with that.

Like I said, not a single person, nor you, can articulate why what he did was so offensive or racist. Because it wasn't.

It was a hit job for calling out woke insanity, plain and simple.
 
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plasticbertrand

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Ok cool. So if a psychopath decides they don't like someone, or is butthurt for being called out for their own racism like the professor BW initially had the disagreement with, it's 100% acceptable to accuse them of being racist, threaten them, and force them out of their job. Doesn't surprise me that you area okay with that.

Like I said, not a single person, nor you, can articulate why what he did was so offensive or racist. Because it wasn't.

It was a hit job for calling out woke insanity, plain and simple.
So all these people are psychopaths?

The universities, private companies, government agencies, millions of people on social media platforms, they are all psychopaths?

Nice hyperbole. This is what you do all the time.

I don't care what Bret Weinstein did.
There's no objective way to know what's offensive to others.
All you have to do is accept that it's offensive to a lot of people.
Your problem is that you can't empath, being a narcissist and all, so you dismiss other people's sentiments.
It was obviously offensive to enough people for him to be removed.
Where's the problem?
This is how society worked since day one.
 
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StuAzole

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Putting something on the internet is as meaningful as saying something out loud on a crowded street. If you want to be heard by a large audience, you have to utilize the major platforms. If you want to drive important social changes you have to have a large audience.

Look at the role that big tech platforms played in enabling the BLM protests. Look at the role it played in the Arab Spring. Those kinds of grassroots movements are too important to risk something similar *not* happening because some big tech board room decided to block the flow of associated information.
So your problem seems not to be that the information isn't available, it's that it's not available on the easy and obvious platform you want it to be? That's not YouTube's job.

I don't see the comparison between limiting false information from circulating and people tweeting about showing up for a protest.
 

grapedrink

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So all these people are psychopaths?
In the case of BW yes. Do you not see the potential abuses and power grabs for allowing someone to weaponize accusations of racism, and using that as a way to control a narrative or advance their own status or career? You are basically saying that we should always give the accuser the benefit of the doubt and crucify the accused.

Autoprax has posted about this exact issue extensively.

The universities, private companies, government agencies, millions of people on social media platforms, they are all psychopaths?
Nice strawman, I never said all of those entities were psycopaths.

Nice hyperbole. This is what you do all the time.
LOL, project much?

I don't care what Bret Weinstein did.
Of course you don't, because the facts aren't on your side. Still waiting for you to point out what could be considered racist. Since you are such an empath and all who is so in tune with the struggles of everyone, I'm sure you can find somemthing.

It was obviously offensive to enough people for him to be removed.
A small extremely loud minority using violence to scare someone into resigning = / = removing someone for an actual disciplinary offense. Learn the difference already.