Something we all can agree on

[Ifallalot]

The Stimulus Bill is trash

Stimulus Bill Allows Federal Reserve to Conduct Meetings in Secret; Gives Fed $454 Billion Slush Fund for Wall Street Bailouts

The U.S. Senate voted 96-0 late yesterday on a massive bailout of Wall Street banks versus a short-term survival plan for American workers thrown out of

www.counterpunch.org

 

[hal9000]

It's more of a disaster relief bill.

 

[Ifallalot]

This disaster relief bill is trash

 

[Ifallalot]

The bill provides specific sums that can be made as loans or loan guarantees to passenger airlines ($25 billion), cargo airlines ($4 billion), and loans and loan guarantees to businesses necessary to national security ($17 billion). But when it comes to the money going to the Federal Reserve and then out the door to Wall Street, the legislation says only this:

“Not more than the sum of $454,000,000,000…shall be available to make loans and loan guarantees to, and other investments in, programs or facilities established by the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System for the purpose of providing liquidity to the financial system….”

 

[hal9000]

But yes, it's trash.

Why are the companies that have raked in record profits get a bailout?

 

[test_article]

How much is the Trump Organization getting?

 

[Billy Ocean]

The Stimulus Bill is trash

Stimulus Bill Allows Federal Reserve to Conduct Meetings in Secret; Gives Fed $454 Billion Slush Fund for Wall Street Bailouts

The U.S. Senate voted 96-0 late yesterday on a massive bailout of Wall Street banks versus a short-term survival plan for American workers thrown out of

www.counterpunch.org

i disagree

that is a pretty dumb article

the purpose of withholding fed meeting minutes is to prevent swarms of short sellers descending on any companies they discuss

bizarre reference of “SPVs baaad m’kay” because Enron used them. SPVs are being set up to hold assets like commercial paper. Treasury is putting initial equity into the SPVs and the fed is lending money to the SPVs which will be secured by the assets the SPV purchases. I don’t claim to understand the exact details of each SPV but the purpose is clearly to allow the Fed to expand its balance sheet to support additional sectors of the economy beyond banks

 

[Billy Ocean]

I don’t know all of the details of the $2T stimulus bill and I’m sure there’s some wack BS in there, but the part about giving money to the Fed to dispense is the least of my concern. The Fed has been maybe the ONLY part of the government to be proactive and smart in this whole episode. We would be in a full on Mad Max / The Road scenario right now if not for what the Fed has been doing the last few weeks. I trust the Fed 1000% more than idiot congress people or Trump to dispense cash where it’s needed

 

[Kento]

But it gets better:

A Bonanza for Rich Real Estate Investors, Tucked Into Stimulus Package

The federal government's planned $2 trillion economic rescue package includes financial aid for individuals and industries that are struggling to survive the coronavirus pandemic.It also includes a potential bonanza for America's richest real estate investors.Senate Republicans inserted an...

www.yahoo.com

Don't vote like retards next time, Billy and ifall.

 

[Billy Ocean]

But it gets better:

A Bonanza for Rich Real Estate Investors, Tucked Into Stimulus Package

The federal government's planned $2 trillion economic rescue package includes financial aid for individuals and industries that are struggling to survive the coronavirus pandemic.It also includes a potential bonanza for America's richest real estate investors.Senate Republicans inserted an...

www.yahoo.com

Don't vote like retards next time, Billy and ifall.

I didn’t vote

this whole arguing about politics for the last 3+ yrs has been a theoretical exercise

 

[Sharkbiscuit]

i disagree

that is a pretty dumb article

the purpose of withholding fed meeting minutes is to prevent swarms of short sellers descending on any companies they discuss

bizarre reference of “SPVs baaad m’kay” because Enron used them. SPVs are being set up to hold assets like commercial paper. Treasury is putting initial equity into the SPVs and the fed is lending money to the SPVs which will be secured by the assets the SPV purchases. I don’t claim to understand the exact details of each SPV but the purpose is clearly to allow the Fed to expand its balance sheet to support additional sectors of the economy beyond banks

Holy f--k Billy you've stopped being a complete Trump chugger, but I'm needing scientific notation and new blocks of memory to hold the binary representation of the integer that describes how many bracing slaps, and by bracing slaps I mean vigorous Sith lightning searings where you are screaming in dying agony for the mercy of Darth "not as forgiving as I am" Vader, you are earning here.

I'm going to start with the withholding fed meeting minutes to prevent short selling.

1. WHY NOT BAN SHORT SELLING AND FUCKING SLAY ANYONE WHO COMPLAINS ABOUT IT HOLY GODDAMN MOTHERFUCKING PIECE OF sh!t WHAT THE GODDAMN ACTUAL FUCK.
Cut your own dick off and shove it into your fucking mouth if you think we need short selling at a time like this. Seriously. Put options aren't enough? WTF. Then slap yourself with your cock and balls choking the life out of you.
Goddamn.

Let's move on to the SPV part of it.

2. I'm actually cool with the Fed minutes being preserved and released in 180 days or a year or whatever. If this was nothing, it'd be, okay, we'll FOIA, that sh!t, move along. This isn't nothing. This is permanent lack of accountability. Because heaven goddamn forbid the elite can't short stocks during a fucking pandemic. I can't fucking surf but parasites can attack asset prices that we'll then have to bail the fuck out.

3. This SPV sh!t exists because of fraud. They did it all over again. That's the only reason the bailout for ACTUAL AFFECTED INDUSTRIES AND PEOPLE IS A DROP IN THE GODDAMNED BUCKET VS THE BANKS.

They did it all over again. They took the worthless fucking garbage, maybe they changed the order of the chop up garbage/get it insured/get garbage rated way higher by the slutfuck ratings agencies, but they did it. That's why constant rate cuts and repo were going on. Mnuchin knows, they all knew, but Trump has to win because they want to reform Social Security and enslave everyone else.

The strip mall restaurants getting gilled because no Taco Tuesday aren't trafficking in toxic assets. They're going to get thrown the fuck out the goddamn instant the bill doesn't get paid. The bartender and the bar aren't selling student loan debt obligations. The fishing guide, the guy who figured out how to throw a castnet when he was 7 and hasn't looked back, he doesn't need the toxic assets he was planning on selling to municipal pension funds to be bailed out.

Again: "Secured by the assets the SPV purchases"

The goddamn farts I rip into the wind are worth more.

 

[Billy Ocean]

Holy f--k Billy you've stopped being a complete Trump chugger, but I'm needing scientific notation and new blocks of memory to hold the binary representation of the integer that describes how many bracing slaps, and by bracing slaps I mean vigorous Sith lightning searings where you are screaming in dying agony for the mercy of Darth "not as forgiving as I am" Vader, you are earning here.

I'm going to start with the withholding fed meeting minutes to prevent short selling.

1. WHY NOT BAN SHORT SELLING AND FUCKING SLAY ANYONE WHO COMPLAINS ABOUT IT HOLY GODDAMN MOTHERFUCKING PIECE OF sh!t WHAT THE GODDAMN ACTUAL fook.
Cut your own dick off and shove it into your fucking mouth if you think we need short selling at a time like this. Seriously. Put options aren't enough? WTF. Then slap yourself with your cock and balls choking the life out of you.
Goddamn.

Let's move on to the SPV part of it.

2. I'm actually cool with the Fed minutes being preserved and released in 180 days or a year or whatever. If this was nothing, it'd be, okay, we'll FOIA, that sh!t, move along. This isn't nothing. This is permanent lack of accountability. Because heaven goddamn forbid the elite can't short stocks during a fucking pandemic. I can't fucking surf but parasites can attack asset prices that we'll then have to bail the fook out.

3. This SPV sh!t exists because of fraud. They did it all over again. That's the only reason the bailout for ACTUAL AFFECTED INDUSTRIES AND PEOPLE IS A DROP IN THE GODDAMNED BUCKET VS THE BANKS.

They did it all over again. They took the worthless fucking garbage, maybe they changed the order of the chop up garbage/get it insured/get garbage rated way higher by the slutfuck ratings agencies, but they did it. That's why constant rate cuts and repo were going on. Mnuchin knows, they all knew, but Trump has to win because they want to reform Social Security and enslave everyone else.

The strip mall restaurants getting gilled because no Taco Tuesday aren't trafficking in toxic assets. They're going to get thrown the fook out the goddamn instant the bill doesn't get paid. The bartender and the bar aren't selling student loan debt obligations. The fishing guide, the guy who figured out how to throw a castnet when he was 7 and hasn't looked back, he doesn't need the toxic assets he was planning on selling to municipal pension funds to be bailed out.

Again: "Secured by the assets the SPV purchases"

The goddamn farts I rip into the wind are worth more.

you seem upset

the idea is the SPVs hold the assets to maturity, when the panic will have subsided

this is what happened in 2008 when the Fed intervened. No one else has deep enough pockets to ride this sh!t out. The fed does. Serving that role as lender of last resort prevents the panic from taking everything else down.

people get mad that this is the system we have, but they want all of the benefits of this system

it’s like people who claim to hate global warming but don’t want to give up their cars

do oil execs make a f-ton of money? Yes. So do the people at the top of the financial system pyramid. Do you know why they make so much? Because they provide a thing that everyone wants

that doesn’t mean they’re not greedy dicks who try to rig things in their favor. Of course they do

BUT the primary reason the Fed bails sh!t out is not to save these assholes or make them richer. That is a total side issue.

 

[mundus]

Billy went from cucking for Trump to shilling for corporate America.

 

[Billy Ocean]

I do recognize that the repeated wall st bailouts cause the public to want to chuck the whole system

I don’t think many people realize how intertwined this system is in everyday life

If you look at the history of financial markets, these greedy guys have always been around and there have always been panics

the difference is that, when we did not have powerful central banks, these panics resulted in lengthy and repeated economic depressions that caused widespread suffering

 

[test_article]

Well yeah, the article is a little unhinged around the edges, ilking the Fed with Enron and such, but economic power is the essence of national security. In China they say wars are won with gold. They have long-term plans, written down and everything.

 

[Billy Ocean]

Bottom line is the fed is being creative to expand its lending beyond banks to other sectors of the economy

not sure why we would rather see large industries fail when that is preventable by providing credit for a period of time until things stabilize

should businesses learn a lesson from this? Sure

but teaching them a lesson by letting them fail en masse will compound across the economy

 

[Sharkbiscuit]

you seem upset

the idea is the SPVs hold the assets to maturity, when the panic will have subsided

this is what happened in 2008 when the Fed intervened. No one else has deep enough pockets to ride this sh!t out. The fed does. Serving that role as lender of last resort prevents the panic from taking everything else down.

people get mad that this is the system we have, but they want all of the benefits of this system

it’s like people who claim to hate global warming but don’t want to give up their cars

do oil execs make a f-ton of money? Yes. So do the people at the top of the financial system pyramid. Do you know why they make so much? Because they provide a thing that everyone wants

that doesn’t mean they’re not greedy dicks who try to rig things in their favor. Of course they do

BUT the primary reason the Fed bails sh!t out is not to save these assholes or make them richer. That is a total side issue.

Oil execs don't work rigs in the Gulf. Oil execs aren't welding pipeline. People at the top of the financial system pyramid didn't program the ATM. They don't add any value, whatsoever. I don't see ANYONE at any of these banks being fired, no pension, no bonus. NOT ONE DAMN PERSON. I can weather this. I'm one burnout with too many surfboards. I'm fine with no job for 10 years and I'm not even fckng 40.

The investment bank CEOs suck dick at investing, period.

Let's move along.

How many of the SPV WILL NEVER BE WORTH ANYTHING.

1. Subprime Auto. How in the hell is a depreciating asset EVER going to be worth anything more than the debt assigned to it? A 2019 F-150 won't be worth 2019 MSRP in 2025.
2. Student Loan debt. How in the hell is someone going to decide to spend their entire life paying off their degree? They're not. They'll find a way out through bankruptcy court, or fentanyl.
3. Commercial Real Estate. Amazon and WalMart nuked this one. Commercial Real Estate is like Conestoga wagons. Will NEVER be worth what it was in 2006 nationwide, inflation adjusted, EVER AGAIN.
4. Corporate Debt. What is the guarantee any of this will be worth jack sh!t in the future? The "going out of business sale" and closure signs are already going up where I live. What do you think Lehman's corporate debt wound up being worth.

At least in 2008 it was something universally required. A place to live. True, treating housing like an investment vehicle instead of a place to live was a shitty idea, and with immigration restrictions in place and white "native" (meaning born in the USA) American being a sub-replacement rate society, it was probably never going to stay up long term, but at least there was another business cycle or two to unwind it.

tl;dr

Jamie Dimon provides no value to the economy. He isn't competent at anything productive. He's a parasite who bilks people. That's all.

 

[Sharkbiscuit]

should businesses learn a lesson from this? Sure

but teaching them a lesson by letting them fail en masse will compound across the economy

Unless you sodomize the CEO in front of his wife, rape the CEO's wife in front of his kids, and seize all their assets, they're never going to learn. Go read the news reports coming out of the Hamptons.

There haven't been any consequences for the people who cause the problems, so there won't be any change.

Society collapsing and these people getting violently murdered like Ghaddafi or the Shah's cronies in 1979 is the ONLY way to give these people any pause.

They don't even have the decency to jump out windows like they did in the 1930s.

 

[Sharkbiscuit]

I might point out, I don't have a huge problem with the Fed not releasing the minutes right now, or at the close of the domestic trading day.

I have a problem with the minutes NEVER getting released.

That the justification YOU came up with was "well they'll short sell if they hear what was frankly said" again, banning short selling is the OBVIOUS solution. The local sheriff should be able to form a posse and murder these people based on social media posts complaining about short selling bans.

Second, the banks OBVIOUSLY didn't learn any lessons from 2008, and that's because none of them were eviscerated in the plaza. Maybe if Deutsche fails with half the Sinaloa Cartel's money in there and bodies disappear and heads start showing up on sticks in Munich or Frankfurt or wherever they'll figure it out.

 

[Sharkbiscuit]

I mean the banks are failing a stress test. That should be the C-suite and the boards, fucking done. Never again, take your life and get the fuck out and never come back. Lost all your NYC privileges, you stay gone, or you be gone.

Asset forfeiture and forced retirement.