Reaction to Epoxy Repair Article

[pickles]

And hey man, my comment was overall positive about the clyde board ... actually I loved that thing. It was a killer beater board and it was my primary closout charger for a couple years. It took a lickin and kept on tickin.

BTW I've got a massively delammed polyester merrick for sale for $75.

 

[pickles]

Anybody see that Rusty ad where flea is pouring "resin" over some poor kid's head ... dude I really hope that was corn syrup with some green food coloring!

 

[hackeysaky]

it was my primary closout charger for a couple years. It took a lickin and kept on tickin.

Funny you mention that, one of my epoxies (not the magic 6'6", but a 6'3") was my closed-out hurricane/noreaster charger too. After many years of abuse (absolutely convinced I broke it at least 7 times, but each time I popped up to see her waiting for me to crawl back on) it finally bit it on a no-way late takeoff in winter surf. It was almost worth it because I got huge hoots, I went in, got another board, and paddled back out and got big props from the guys out there- said I won the "big brass balls of the day award". It was a good laugh for all. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

 

[hackeysaky]

Anybody see that Rusty ad where flea is pouring "resin" over some poor kid's head ... dude I really hope that was corn syrup with some green food coloring!

Thought the same exact thing. I had that gut-pang you get when you see something horrible when I saw that ad. Effective advertising if you ascribe to the "all exposure is good exposure" philosophy!

 

[craigj532]

Another irony is that I remember a thread from a few months ago where GWS was basically talking about Beatty's Rocket Fish and what sick little boards they are.

<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/socrazy.gif" alt="" />

 

[TRI FINS ARE DANGEROUS]

The point of this thread was the epoxy ding repair article. Please read the article first. We can argue about performance characteristics until we all die of exhaustion.

*I can't imagine that guys like Clyde and Javier and Jeff Wells would want to be mentioned in the same sentence as Randy French.

 

[jeff wells]

I wouldn't mind being mentioned in the same sentence for bank account balances <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> But that isn't going to happen...

I wouldn't mind being thought of, or remembered as one who took surfing/boards to another level. Doubtful that THAT will happen too... As you pointed out, the technology really isn't new. But I think that it is more refined.

Randy French will be remembered, how is a different matter.

Side note, HDX makes "regular ol polys" too. Our mainstay is "forward" thinking and exotic materials. Can you go down to your local shop and order a custom wood veneer and carbon fiber board? How about a spectra(white kevlar) board, that's vac bagged? Or kevlar? Maybe, maybe not. THAT's where we come in. Basically, our motto is, How creative can we be? If "they" say it can't be done, we'll try it (like clark blanks and epoxy resin. Clark says epoxy won't work with his blanks, well it does...)

Since you have been around boards and building them your whole life does it take something special to get you going??
I've been surfing for 32 years, around board manufacturing since I was 16, and it takes something INTERESTING to get me going.

Getting involved with HDX and epoxy has opened up a whole new world to me. Materials that I've WONDERED about making boards out of have become a reality. Like the wood veneer and carbon fiber board that we're making. TRICK!

Working with epoxy has its downside too. Twitch, shake, shudder, just kidding <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

 

[hackeysaky]

The point of this thread was the epoxy ding repair article. Please read the article first.

Your right, TFAD- I was just reacting to the villianization (is that a word <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> ?) of epoxy boards, specifically hand-shaped.

I'll say this about working with epoxy materials: at first they may be frustrating because they have a different "feel" when you naturally expect them to behave like standard resins. It is difficult to explain, but I believe it has something to do with the viscosity, properties of adhesion, and manner in which they gel and set. After a short while you figure it out and it is not so bad- from my limited experience using Resin Research epoxy, it "behaves" more "normally" than other epoxies have in the past, and sands quite well once set up. It is probably akin to a great artist who is skilled and experienced in one medium suddenly switching to another one- there is likely going to be an adjustment period, but soon fine art results.

 

[GWS]

I don’t believe I saw any “villianization” of custom epoxy surfboards on this thread. Just an acknowledgement of their limitations. They are no panacea. They are light and strong. They flex differently than poly boards which does affect their riding characteristics. Not bad, just different. Epoxy is not corn syrup and the boards do have a tendency to delam sooner than a poly board would when exposed to heat.

You pays your money and you takes your chances.

 

[hackeysaky]

You are correct, vilianization was probably too strong a term to use in this case. The bee in my bonnet right now is that many people (and I am not saying you GWS, I'm brishing with broad strokes with that statement) pass a lot of judgement not having actually sampled the product, or sampled the product years ago and are applying those past observations and assumptions to today's totally dissimilar materials, or are just adopting heresay and conjecture as Truth. That is all.

 

[TRI FINS ARE DANGEROUS]

Glass shops in general have been villafied by the media for years while shapers are treated as sacrosanct.

 

[blakestah]

Let me open a can of worms (before I run and hide)...note - this is a hypothetical question - most people know the answer already.

How much training and skill does glassing at some level of proficiency require compared to shaping at the same level of proficiency?

 

[JJR]

It is comical how defensive people get, and quick the thread gets sidetracked. The topic was/is epoxy REPAIR. Not "we hate epoxy" or whatever this has spun off into. MY point was that the media is potraying epoxy surfboards as "easy" to repair and build, and my opinion that it is misleading. I have NOTHING against epoxies. I'm pro choices, so if people want to ride them, they should be able to. I will however step up and call bullsh!t when I see blatant lies and mis-representations of products. Gregg Loehr has been working at the epoxy thing for around 20 years. Read the latest surfing to see a continuation of info that steers surfers towards epoxies. In the mag it quotes Gregg saying that 100 per cent of all surfboards will be epoxy in the future!!! So much for choices! Your all gettin' epoxies whether you like them or not, according to gregg. That statement is wishful thinking at best.
Here's something for you all to consider: AST resin! Where is it? It was supposed to revolutionize the industry by now. The new surfing (surfboard issue) doesn't even mention it anywhere in the whole mag. Not even in the top 5 innovations of the last 5 years!!! Now if you feel a bit frisky, go back a few issues and see how they said(almost word for word)the same sh!t about AST as they are now saying about surftech/gregg Loehr/clyde Beatty. Controversy makes for good press. If you believe it, they laugh, or maybe not. They may even have convinced themselves that epoxies are the wave of the future. Interesting considering there might be like one guy in the whole surfer/surfing building that knows anything about surfboard construction. And it ain't Sam George. We use polyester because it works, and we can train people to use it properly. Even Javier has trouble training laminators. So believe what you want. If you want truth, don't look in the mag. It's all politics

 

[pickles]

Which glass shops will do a board in AST? I'll try to get another copy of my XTR board in AST then have an A-B-C fest.

 

[jasonc]

It is comical how defensive people get, and quick the thread gets sidetracked. The topic was/is epoxy REPAIR. Not "we hate epoxy" or whatever this has spun off into. MY point was that the media is potraying epoxy surfboards as "easy" to repair and build, and my opinion that it is misleading. I have NOTHING against epoxies. I'm pro choices, so if people want to ride them, they should be able to. I will however step up and call bullsh!t when I see blatant lies and mis-representations of products. Gregg Loehr has been working at the epoxy thing for around 20 years. Read the latest surfing to see a continuation of info that steers surfers towards epoxies. In the mag it quotes Gregg saying that 100 per cent of all surfboards will be epoxy in the future!!! So much for choices! Your all gettin' epoxies whether you like them or not, according to gregg. That statement is wishful thinking at best.
Here's something for you all to consider: AST resin! Where is it? It was supposed to revolutionize the industry by now. The new surfing (surfboard issue) doesn't even mention it anywhere in the whole mag. Not even in the top 5 innovations of the last 5 years!!! Now if you feel a bit frisky, go back a few issues and see how they said(almost word for word)the same sh!t about AST as they are now saying about surftech/gregg Loehr/clyde Beatty. Controversy makes for good press. If you believe it, they laugh, or maybe not. They may even have convinced themselves that epoxies are the wave of the future. Interesting considering there might be like one guy in the whole surfer/surfing building that knows anything about surfboard construction. And it ain't Sam George. We use polyester because it works, and we can train people to use it properly. Even Javier has trouble training laminators. So believe what you want. If you want truth, don't look in the mag. It's all politics

The writing is on the wall as far as Polyester resin. There are two bits of legislature that
will definatly have an impact on the surfboard industry in the near future
(1162 and MACT) which call for reduced resin emissions. Epoxy is far far below the emisions of poyester resin. As much as you or me may not like it. Its going to get tougher to manufacture surfboards using polyester resin.
As far as AST resin its having its growing pains. if you have done your homework you would know that that stuff isnt the easiest to work with. You cant use regular laminates, you cant airbrush the blank. And you need to heat cure the resin for it to cure which can be pretty expensive to set up for production, smaller manufacturers forget it cause DHP resin costs 10x the price of regular poly . Not to mention ive heard some things about people being sensitised
to the stuff. On the other hand modern Epoxy is easy to work with, has almost no odor or emissions, you can use regular laminates and airbrush as usual and it can be hand laminated just like regular polyester and its cost is similar to polyester.

 

[TRI FINS ARE DANGEROUS]

The new resin...oh, never mind!

 

[blakestah]

To get back on the topic

What exactly is remotely tough about repairing an epoxy/polyurethane board compared to a polyester/polyurethane board? AFAICK, you just use different resin and do the repair identically.

Sandwich construction boards are another story wrt repair. But representing all epoxy boards as sandwich boards is a misrepresentation, hurting manufacturers like pointblanks and Clyde Beatty that do a lot of epoxy boards that are not sandwich construction.