***Official Real Estate Thread***

[EastCoastBrah]

source? not that I don’t believe you on a national scale but I don’t believe you for California

I don't have a source and I don't think it's possible to have one since you wouldn't be able to separate desire and ability. Anecdotally both sets of my grandparents lived in the same house their entire lives, my parents and most of my aunts/uncles similarly. My cousins have lived all over the place. I don't think it's crazy to say that as moving and transportation has gotten easier and knowledge of other places has grown, desire to move has as well. I'd suggest that even if rates haven't grown, aggregate # has with the population increase.

Regardless, I don't care about this conversation at all. I was just commenting on the market meeting what I perceive to be a need.

Respectfully, im going to unsubscribe from this thread now. you guys have fun.

 

[StuAzole]

Didnt Bill Gates buy one recently?

Del Mar

 

[StuAzole]

I'm not sure why anyone would be happy about corporate entities buying single family homes.
With a small time rental owner, I can think of many positives. Primarily that the property might cycle back into inventory sooner than later. With a corporate owner, market manipulation feels much more likely.

What are the positives to increased corporate ownership of SFH?

Better management, reliable ownership, no personal interaction with insane landlords, more market driven rent, less likelihood that units will be used as short term rentals, development of rental communities in places otherwise built for owner-occupied homes just off the top of my head.

What are the benefits of mom and pop Owners?

And to be clear, corporate ownership will always have sale of individual homes as an exit strategy or as a regular part of their business plan, particularly when resale prices are peaking.

 

[npsp]

If a corporation wants to buy raw land and develop it as a SFR rental community, more power to them.
I think the issue that people want addressed is the corpos buying up SFRs in established, primarily owner occupied SFR neighborhoods and turning them into rental communities (I tend to think it is smaller pools of investors that are the primary culprit of buying up SFRs in established neighborhoods then converting them into cash cows not the big corps).

 

[r32]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1757217532921221518

Bill Gates new home in Del Mar. This is what $43m gets you

 

[StuAzole]

If a corporation wants to buy raw land and develop it as a SFR rental community, more power to them.
I think the issue that people want addressed is the corpos buying up SFRs in established, primarily owner occupied SFR neighborhoods and turning them into rental communities (I tend to think it is smaller pools of investors that are the primary culprit of buying up SFRs in established neighborhoods then converting them into cash cows not the big corps).

How’s that working out in coastal SD? Where every other rental house is an airbnb? At least corporate owners rent to tenants who arent just there to get drunk.

A guy in my neighborhood owns 7 homes (he doesn’t live in any of them). Got them all during the downturn. Cc&rs don’t allow short term rentals so he runs them annually. Home values are almost triple from when he bought them And rents have at least doubled. Dude is making a killing. I don’t see the difference be him owning them versus BlackRock.

 

[sdsrfr]

short term rental license numbers for SD:

Short-Term Residential Occupancy (STRO) | City of San Diego Official Website

www.sandiego.gov

outside mission beach, 4500 issued, 900 more are available and unclaimed.

It’s hard out there for a short term pimp.

 

[grapedrink]

I'm not sure why anyone would be happy about corporate entities buying single family homes.
With a small time rental owner, I can think of many positives. Primarily that the property might cycle back into inventory sooner than later. With a corporate owner, market manipulation feels much more likely.

What are the positives to increased corporate ownership of SFH?

While I agree with the concern, the numbers simply don’t bear out the narrative in most markets. Very few single family homes are owned by hedge funds.

 

[Bob Dobbalina]

Better management, reliable ownership, no personal interaction with insane landlords, more market driven rent, less likelihood that units will be used as short term rentals, development of rental communities in places otherwise built for owner-occupied homes just off the top of my head.

What are the benefits of mom and pop Owners?

And to be clear, corporate ownership will always have sale of individual homes as an exit strategy or as a regular part of their business plan, particularly when resale prices are peaking.

What are the benefits of mom and pop Owners?

Good question.

I'd imagine there are some.
And there are certainly drawbacks.

 

[One-Off]

3 homes in Dana Point, hanging over the edge

California Coastal Records Project - Image 200803600

View attachment 172743

Side note. How tf did this guy get approved to build this home? What a location!

California Coastal Records Project - Image 200803523

At my local, there's this house-




Below is the view rom the trail (you can see the bougainvillea). You can't see the house while walking down there but you can see a corner of the patio where it is undercut. And for years I've kept my eye on a section of the orange cliff ( on left of both photos) because it had a vertical cleft in it. After this last storm that piece had parted. Also, in the trail photo you can see a slide of dark colored rock. That area had a major slide this last storm, where the boulders completely covered the trail. Now look at the cliff right above it and its relation to the house. Last time I walked under it, there was sand and gravel falling as I went by. I jogged past. I did not feel safe at all.

 

[npsp]

How’s that working out in coastal SD? Where every other rental house is an airbnb? At least corporate owners rent to tenants who arent just there to get drunk.

A guy in my neighborhood owns 7 homes (he doesn’t live in any of them). Got them all during the downturn. Cc&rs don’t allow short term rentals so he runs them annually. Home values are almost triple from when he bought them And rents have at least doubled. Dude is making a killing. I don’t see the difference be him owning them versus BlackRock.

I live in coastal SD. The majority of the houses on our street have an income generating unit, including ours. The majority are long term rentals. On the other hand, my friend who lives in the 92122 has STVR on either side of him and he says it can be a real pain.
Regarding your neighbor, I'm stocked for him. He took a risk and made a great investment. I'd much rather have an individual investor owner/landlord owning and profiting off of rent collected than the worlds largest asset manger.

 

[StuAzole]

I live in coastal SD. The majority of the houses on our street have an income generating unit, including ours. The majority are long term rentals. On the other hand, my friend who lives in the 92122 has STVR on either side of him and he says it can be a real pain.
Regarding your neighbor, I'm stocked for him. He took a risk and made a great investment. I'd much rather have an individual investor owner/landlord owning and profiting off of rent collected than the worlds largest asset manger.

That’s fine, but other than feels, what’s the difference? Both types of owners are taking for sale inventory off the market and replacing them with for rent. Who makes the money is immaterial to the market impacts people are complaining about.

Nobody cares that the equity firms/corpos own all the apartments. Why is The sfd market any different?

 

[Bob Dobbalina]

That’s fine, but other than feels, what’s the difference? Both types of owners are taking for sale inventory off the market and replacing them with for rent. Who makes the money is immaterial to the market impacts people are complaining about.

Nobody cares that the equity firms/corpos own all the apartments. Why is The sfd market any different?

I guess it seems like another example of an opportunity that was available for a period of time becoming less and less available to the average person in a society with an ever expanding wealth gap.

 

[grapedrink]

I guess it seems like another example of an opportunity that was available for a period of time becoming less and less available to the average person in a society with an ever expanding wealth gap.

In SF, the wealth gap is not hedge funds vs everyone else, it's the upper 10% vs everyone else. People up that in tech make absurd salaries. Combine that with a geographically constrained metro area with slow and expensive building costs, and you have a recipe for high priced housing.

Beyond that, hedge funds aren't looking to places like SF because the monthly cost greatly exceeds the rent. It takes years of rent growth to cash flow. Instead they are going after Southeast and Midwest cities like Atlanta where they can cash flow from the jump.

 

[Mr Doof]

What are the benefits of mom and pop Owners?

For when I lived in the Mission District:

1. Called me up saying I put my VISA payment in the mail, not the rent payment, told me if I paid in him 48 hrs, he wouldn't hold it against me and would return the wrong check. VISA just cashed the check meant for the landlord and 60 days later, refunded the difference.

2. When there was a problem we couldn't deal with, he'd show up the next day, looking and sounding like a hungover Dennis Weaver. It was like having a cut rate celeb as the landlord....by the way, this is Dennis Weaver:

3. When he gave us three cans of cheap white paint to repaint the inside and it turned out that they were actually three different shades of white, he didn't blow a gasket. Thankfully we lucked out and painted the darkest room with the least dark 'white' and the brightest room, the darkest 'white'.

4. He didn't leer at my female roommates, but he thought all women not wearing dresses were lesbians, so......

 

[StuAzole]

I guess it seems like another example of an opportunity that was available for a period of time becoming less and less available to the average person in a society with an ever expanding wealth gap.

meaning what? The poor guy in my hood only gets to buy 7 homes and not 8?

Do you think lots of lower income families are buying sfd homes as rental investments? They’re the ones who lost the homes that the funds purchased in the first place.

As npsp pointed out, adu’s are an easy way to become a landlord and to date BlackRock etc aren’t buying those. As an aside, adu’s will soon be able to be parceled off and sold as stand alone properties, at least in CA, so that’ll open up a whole new ownership avenue.

And you realize big banks finance the whole thing anyway right?

 

[slipped_disc]

Mom and pop landlords — especially when renting something that’s on their property — are much more likely to value a balance of revenue and having a good tenant/neighbor.

A corporate landlord is primarily (if not solely) focused on maximizing revenue.

 

[casa_mugrienta]

Mom and pop landlords — especially when renting something that’s on their property — are much more likely to value a balance of revenue and having a good tenant.

A corporate landlord is primarily (if not solely) focused on maximizing revenue.

Very, very true.

Therein lies a major difference.

 

[StuAzole]

Mom and pop landlords — especially when renting something that’s on their property — are much more likely to value a balance of revenue and having a good tenant/neighbor.

A corporate landlord is primarily (if not solely) focused on maximizing revenue.

But that’s not what we’re talking about - mom and pop won’t live on your sfd property. They may not even live in the same state.

For every good landlord there‘s a shitty one. The guy in my hood handles everything through a management company, just like blackrock would.

 

[Bob Dobbalina]

meaning what? The poor guy in my hood only gets to buy 7 homes and not 8?

Do you think lots of lower income families are buying sfd homes as rental investments? They’re the ones who lost the homes that the funds purchased in the first place.

As npsp pointed out, adu’s are an easy way to become a landlord and to date BlackRock etc aren’t buying those. As an aside, adu’s will soon be able to be parceled off and sold as stand alone properties, at least in CA, so that’ll open up a whole new ownership avenue.

And you realize big banks finance the whole thing anyway right?

No. Not initially. It's usually the second generation that has the opportunity to rent the porperty out when granny moves in with the kids, or into a retirement home. Then the kids that don't sell, rent the home out and/or borrow equity from the home for their initial home purchase.

Are these avenues of incremental growth of a middle class going to be made more accessible with institutional investors competing for purchases? Probably not.
Is it an exaggerated influence? Probably depends on the market, but most accounts are that it is growing.
Is a corporate owner better for renters? It also depends.
Theoretically, would large scale investors have the tools to lobby against regulations, fix markets, etc? Surely more than their small time counterparts.
Will they? IDK
They'll probably use the same management companies that Stu's neighbor uses.