Mexican cartels seize the avocado industry...

[Sharkbiscuit]

Is anybody else thinking that is going to happen here

Things are still too comfortable here.

The 2nd Amendment/Move to Canada people are a bunch of ineffectual pussies who won't do jack sh!t. People who are going to do sh!t go ahead and do it. They don't post 192473197419234671239864 facebook memes in between popping lipitor and nicorette. Nothing is going to happen if he loses in the grand scheme of things. I lived among these people when sh!t went south on the passable roads/no power/no water front.

Their hambeast wives will whine incessantly, driving the working class 45-65 year old male suicide/OD rate even higher. Without a fully stocked and staffed CVS around the corner, half of them and their parents will be dead in a week. No WalMart, dead in a month. These people couldn't hunt chapulines much less El Chapo, and without a steady supply of live bait from the bait shop they can't fish for sh!t neither.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Starting sh!t with the cartels is another matter. I agree with Autoprax that we're not going to have some domestic left vs right political civil war.

But Sinaloa spraying down a police station in the US? Journalists "getting disappeared"? Politicians getting phone calls from cartels where their kids clothing, and their kids' teachers' clothing, are described in exact detail?

Yeah, either that, or the US just being a pawn in the winning cartel's chess, going around eliminating their competition, sounds pretty plausible.

 

[afoaf]

Isn't that Australia?

it's crazy to look at War and Joshua Tree albums relative to U2 today

 

[Autoprax]

Good songs

 

[Clayster]

Pretty sure Colombia was a fight against the FARC, who were directly in combat/insurrection. I don't think the FARC had infiltrated Colombia's government and society, at all levels, the way the cartels have in Mexico?

Also was under the impression the FARC operated in specific areas, and the cartels are everywhere. Like El Ogro says, could you take a sh!t in Bogota without paying off the FARC?

Show me someone in Mexico who is going to "cooperate with the US" and I'll show you a beheaded corpse with a warning posted to it.

The FARC problem in Colombia was not what I was referring to; It was Pablo Escobar and the cocaine cowboys.

Different problems.

 

[PJ]

How about comparing Mexico with the Philippines?

Was Duterte right?

What Duterte has done is phenomenal and has been badly misreported in the US. The crystal meth there was so bad - the Chinese mass producing it - ship/factories moored offshore - it was cheaper than food. Poor people smoke cigarettes sometimes because it makes the hunger go away and its cheaper than food - same thing there with meth. Some of my brothers in law in their mid 60's started doing crystal meth which makes no sense - they were never into drugs before. - so it was really, really bad. So Duterte declared both an amnesty and a crackdown. If you turned yourself in as a dealer or got treatment as a user you were OK. He also doubled police salaries because they were making so little. But a lot of cops (and politicians) were drug dealers or in the industry. They and the civilians in the industry - both parties being afraid the other side would claim amnesty - started killing each other.

Duterte ignited a fight against corruption. The streets of Manilla, large well built and planned streets, were/are clogged with unlicensed businesses which took over the sidewalks and 2 of 3 road lanes. Duterte started clearing that slowly with people under his control (Metro Manilla Development or MMDA - I guess the national government). The unlicensed would come back but they would clear again - giving people a chance to get used to the idea. Also cracking down on Jeepney busses with bald tires, unlicensed drivers, etc. Introducing new clean emission replacements for the aging Jeepneys, etc. Manila traffic is so bad that kids have 2 or 3 hour commutes each way to school.

So Duterte's street clearing efforts were running into roadblocks with local city authorities who were collecting street rents. And it was not at all covered by their local media but you could see it live on YouTube/Facebook posted by a guy from New Zealand or somewhere "The Gadget Addict". People's responses to the street clearing were overwhelmingly positive - the local media eventually also picked up the story - but the efforts were stalling. Someone (who grew up poor) ran for mayor of Manilla on a platform involving street clearing - he won - his first day in office at City Hall on camera he reaches into his desk and pulls out an envelope of Pesos worth $100,000 US and says it's the day's bribes and this is the end of it. He walks the city at night to see what's going on and now he's clearing streets and knocking down the concrete storefronts built on sidewalks. My wife watches it all on the internet. So Duterte's anti-corruption initiative has really captured people's imagination and I think they can now see that corruption can actually be stopped.

 

[mundus]

What Duterte has done is phenomenal and has been badly misreported in the US. The crystal meth there was so bad - the Chinese mass producing it - ship/factories moored offshore - it was cheaper than food. Poor people smoke cigarettes sometimes because it makes the hunger go away and its cheaper than food - same thing there with meth. Some of my brothers in law in their mid 60's started doing crystal meth which makes no sense - they were never into drugs before. - so it was really, really bad. So Duterte declared both an amnesty and a crackdown. If you turned yourself in as a dealer or got treatment as a user you were OK. He also doubled police salaries because they were making so little. But a lot of cops (and politicians) were drug dealers or in the industry. They and the civilians in the industry - both parties being afraid the other side would claim amnesty - started killing each other.

Duterte ignited a fight against corruption. The streets of Manilla, large well built and planned streets, were/are clogged with unlicensed businesses which took over the sidewalks and 2 of 3 road lanes. Duterte started clearing that slowly with people under his control (Metro Manilla Development or MMDA - I guess the national government). The unlicensed would come back but they would clear again - giving people a chance to get used to the idea. Also cracking down on Jeepney busses with bald tires, unlicensed drivers, etc. Introducing new clean emission replacements for the aging Jeepneys, etc. Manila traffic is so bad that kids have 2 or 3 hour commutes each way to school.

So Duterte's street clearing efforts were running into roadblocks with local city authorities who were collecting street rents. And it was not at all covered by their local media but you could see it live on YouTube/Facebook posted by a guy from New Zealand or somewhere "The Gadget Addict". People's responses to the street clearing were overwhelmingly positive - the local media eventually also picked up the story - but the efforts were stalling. Someone (who grew up poor) ran for mayor of Manilla on a platform involving street clearing - he won - his first day in office at City Hall on camera he reaches into his desk and pulls out an envelope of Pesos worth $100,000 US and says it's the day's bribes and this is the end of it. He walks the city at night to see what's going on and now he's clearing streets and knocking down the concrete storefronts built on sidewalks. My wife watches it all on the internet. So Duterte's anti-corruption initiative has really captured people's imagination and I think they can now see that corruption can actually be stopped.

Interesting take we don't get in the states, if accurate I still don't think it justifies the extrajudicial killings of civilians.

 

[everysurfer]

Interesting take we don't get in the states, if accurate I still don't think it justifies the extrajudicial killings of civilians.

I really don't like any killing. From death penalty to abortion.

But when the enemy is coming for me and mine, the gloves come off. War gets ugly.

It sounds like Duterte put a stop to the enemy.

Mexico needs to declare martial law due to an insurrection, and get to business.

 

[Sharkbiscuit]

I really don't like any killing. From death penalty to abortion.

But when the enemy is coming for me and mine, the gloves come off. War gets ugly.

It sounds like Duterte put a stop to the enemy.

Mexico needs to declare martial law due to an insurrection, and get to business.

Can you tell me how the enemy is coming for you and yours? Or are you worried about some dual citizens who left 150 years ago because they're polygamist Mormons?

When you say Mexico needs to declare martial law due to an insurrection...the insurrection would be government trying to control the cartels. Martial law is declared all the time. There is a banner hung on a bridge, or a social media post, etc, that says a curfew is in effect and if you're out in X area between Y o'clock and Z o'clock, you will be swiss cheesed, decapitated, and disappeared or displayed as need be.

Look at some of the Lambos and 'rarris on cartel kids' social media. Trust me, they're getting to business.

 

[PJ]

Interesting take we don't get in the states, if accurate I still don't think it justifies the extrajudicial killings of civilians.

Here in the states it has been characterized as extrajudicial killings. But what was happening is a cop drug trafficker and a civilian drug trafficker were in business with each other. Duterte declares an amnesty. The cop trafficker is afraid the civilian trafficker will accept amnesty then turn him in so he kills him first. That's not extrajudicial killing at all - but I guess since its a cop killing a civilian the US news calls it that. The way the US news reports it is very far (and very simplistic) from what I hear directly from the Philippines.

 

[everysurfer]

Can you tell me how the enemy is coming for you and yours? Or are you worried about some dual citizens who left 150 years ago because they're polygamist Mormons?

When you say Mexico needs to declare martial law due to an insurrection...the insurrection would be government trying to control the cartels. Martial law is declared all the time. There is a banner hung on a bridge, or a social media post, etc, that says a curfew is in effect and if you're out in X area between Y o'clock and Z o'clock, you will be swiss cheesed, decapitated, and disappeared or displayed as need be.

Look at some of the Lambos and 'rarris on cartel kids' social media. Trust me, they're getting to business.

Firstly, when I said "me and mine" I was speaking for the Mexican people. I thought that was what this thread was about.

I'm a bit lost on your second point.
The Government declares martial law, not the cartel.

Just like Vietnam was an "undeclared war", as a "police action", it was in fact a war in every aspect.

So is Mexico. There is an undeclared civil war, as the politicians walk the tightrope between keeping their own corruption, while stopping the other guys corruption.

They need to get down to business. Win or loose. Either the Government or the Cartels will win. The outcome is a democracy or a feudal state.

 

[Bob Dobbalina]

well this thread grew some legs and walked the fuck on....


Hard for the Mexican Gov't to fight a war against the Cartels when the cartels have the $$ to buy US military surplus weaponry from... wait for it... the US Government. This is standard practice and a lucrative way for the US government to offload the leftover, taxpayer funded, refuse and byproducts of the Military Industrial Complex.

Go down the list of countries in the America in 2 columns. One side can be the countries that the US has backed military coups, revolutions, and corruption. In the other, you can draw your new "America, World Police" logo with plenty of room for irony.

US backed destabilization is the backbone of North, Central, and South American Politics. We learned it from the Europeans that did and do the same to their side of the world, and to the Americas (until the US decided to become a world power unto itself). The fella halfway back in the thread concerned about China's influence in the African continent and that Africa's biggest failure was a failure to unite..... Was it a problem when the English, French, Dutch, Portuguese were the ones murdering, pillaging, and subjugating throughout the continent? Or is it now a problem because Chinese public and private ventures have replaced them? I'd say their biggest problem has been the persistent and brutal behavior of European Colonization and Western Capitalism.

 

[Bob Dobbalina]

It is in the former and current Imperialist/Colonizers interest to depict Postcolonial states as brutal, lawless, and corrupt. Don't be too quick to conflate civility with a lack of corruption, it's often just a more complex form and collective amnesia that renders the corruption itself invisible while applying it's own constant pressure

 

[everysurfer]

well this thread grew some legs and walked the fook on....


Hard for the Mexican Gov't to fight a war against the Cartels when the cartels have the $$ to buy US military surplus weaponry from... wait for it... the US Government. This is standard practice and a lucrative way for the US government to offload the leftover, taxpayer funded, refuse and byproducts of the Military Industrial Complex.

Go down the list of countries in the America in 2 columns. One side can be the countries that the US has backed military coups, revolutions, and corruption. In the other, you can draw your new "America, World Police" logo with plenty of room for irony.

US backed destabilization is the backbone of North, Central, and South American Politics. We learned it from the Europeans that did and do the same to their side of the world, and to the Americas (until the US decided to become a world power unto itself). The fella halfway back in the thread concerned about China's influence in the African continent and that Africa's biggest failure was a failure to unite..... Was it a problem when the English, French, Dutch, Portuguese were the ones murdering, pillaging, and subjugating throughout the continent? Or is it now a problem because Chinese public and private ventures have replaced them? I'd say their biggest problem has been the persistent and brutal behavior of European Colonization and Western Capitalism.

Interesting point if true. Could you give a source to the U.S. Government selling arms to the cartels of Mexico?

 

[Sharkbiscuit]

I'm a bit lost on your second point.
The Government declares martial law, not the cartel.

Just like Vietnam was an "undeclared war", as a "police action", it was in fact a war in every aspect.

So is Mexico. There is an undeclared civil war, as the politicians walk the tightrope between keeping their own corruption, while stopping the other guys corruption.

They need to get down to business. Win or loose. Either the Government or the Cartels will win. The outcome is a democracy or a feudal state.

My second point is basically saying that it IS an undeclared civil war, and that the Government is losing and the Cartels winning.

 

[Sharkbiscuit]

Interesting point if true. Could you give a source to the U.S. Government selling arms to the cartels of Mexico?

I think you are going to have a hard time finding like a Commerce or State Department budget request with income line items for things like selling weaponry directly to El Chapo's subordinates.

You can get a kalashnikov ripoff from all over the FSU/China and probably other places. Some other things, not so much. Obviously geniuses like Reagan supplied these people directly when, as another poster pointed out, we were handing out anti-tank weaponry to anyone who killed someone with a Che Guevarra t-shirt and seemed somewhat right wing. No need to wonder where that gear wound up.

Then you have decorated veterans like Sergeant dicklick, who is kind of like Flynn or Hunter Jr. They'll sell anything to anyone at any time for any price and pretend they're patriots when they're really mercenaries. My guess is this is how things like SAWs wind up with the Cartel when it's not a US Gov't to Mexican Gov't (aka cartel) transaction. I don't think the government is selling AKs to the Cartel, but Army bases closer to the border probably have swappable barrel fully auto weaponry walking off constantly. Mexican jumping weaponry as it were.

But I'd say the best bet is every time one of these officially sanctioned weapons purchases makes its way to a division/branch/station/outfit whatever on the Mexican side that is compromised by the cartel, the deal is done.

Army Sergeant Sentenced for Cartel Weapons Case

An Army sergeant and military recruiter in South Texas must serve nearly 17 years in prison in a scheme to funnel dozens of assault weapons to a Mexican drug cartel.

www.nbcdfw.com

How U.S. Guns Sold to Mexico End Up With Security Forces Accused of Crime and Human Rights Abuses

The Trump administration is set to make it even easier for guns to flow to Mexico, as part of an overhaul of legal arms exports.

theintercept.com

Mexicans Fear Abuses as New Law Empowers Military — but U.S. Security Aid Keeps Coming

With its support for Mexico’s war on drugs, the U.S. government is funding a force that has been regularly implicated in violence against its own people.

theintercept.com

Arming the world: Inside Trump's 'Buy American' drive to expand weapons exports

In a telephone call with the emir of Kuwait in January, U.S. President Donald Trump pressed the Gulf monarch to move forward on a $10 billion fighter jet deal that had been stalled for more than a year.

www.reuters.com

 

[everysurfer]

A town to visit
Bloomberg: Drug Cartels Muscle Into Mexican Town Packed With Americans. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-12-03/is-it-safe-to-travel-to-san-miguel-mexico-2019

 

[thrillkicker]

Look at some of the Lambos and 'rarris on cartel kids' social media. Trust me, they're getting to business.

"Lambos and 'rarris" ???

biscuit be throwin' the hippest hip lingo all around! hyuk!

 

[crustBrother]

Lots of interesting stuff on this thread. I especially like the way it turned into an AA meeting for a couple of pages. I set down the bottle a few months back to help me loose weight. Had every intention of picking it back up once I hit my target weight, but my best friend quit a month ago and says he's never touching the stuff again so maybe I'm just done :-(

Oh well, at least there don't appear to be any blood stains on my avocados.

 

[MitchellC]

Interesting what with impeachment and ongoing criminal investigations dominating the news, not many sources mentioned Bagpipe Bill's visit with AMLO yesterday in Mexico City:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/barrs-meeting-in-mexico-could-be-prelude-to-greater-us-involvement-against-drug-cartels/2019/12/05/d08ab23a-161f-11ea-80d6-d0ca7007273f_story.html

Every now and then I try to give you peeps a heads up, so perhaps now is the time for another reminder. The USA learned how effective a fascist form of government was from both Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany. There is simply no substitute for the positive economic effect perpetual war delivers from the co-operative partnership between gov't and private entities (arms producers). (In Germany, the wealthy were the "Junkers" (aristocracy, not company) who supported and financed Hitler's rise, knowing the eventual demand for "product".)

This system, as adopted (and prettied up for American consumption - read up on Edward Bernays) protects our global dollar reserve status, it employs 10s of millions, both directly & indirectly, and it drives $trillions in credit creation and financial liquidity. Once you know the fundamental factors, other trivial surface level elements can be eliminated. I speak of course in terms of general opinion as in "that's not a good thing", etc, etc. This isn't about good, bad or indifferent. This is about empire, and how large institutions control and benefit economically from these policies.

So, knowing all this, the issue isn't whether, but rather where & when? And, it's rather obvious that the where is MX and the when is now.

 

[ElOgro]

Interesting what with impeachment and ongoing criminal investigations dominating the news, not many sources mentioned Bagpipe Bill's visit with AMLO yesterday in Mexico City:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/barrs-meeting-in-mexico-could-be-prelude-to-greater-us-involvement-against-drug-cartels/2019/12/05/d08ab23a-161f-11ea-80d6-d0ca7007273f_story.html

Every now and then I try to give you peeps a heads up, so perhaps now is the time for another reminder. The USA learned how effective a fascist form of government was from both the Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany. There is simply no substitute for the positive economic effect perpetual war delivers from the co-operative partnership between gov't and private entities (arms producers). (In Germany, the merchants were the "Junkers" who supported and financed Hitler's rise, know the outcome.)

It protects our global dollar reserve status, it employs 10s of millions, both directly & indirectly, and it drives $trillions in credit creation and financial liquidity. Once you know the fundamental factors, other trivial surface level elements can be eliminated. I speak of course in terms of general opinion as in "that's not a good thing", etc, etc. This isn't about good, bad or indifferent. This is about empire, and how large institutions control and benefit economically from these policies.

So, knowing all this, the issue isn't whether, but rather where & when? And, it's rather obvious that the where is MX and the when is now.

How do you see this developing and playing out?

Keep us posted.

Muchas gracias adelantadas!