Does the Bern stand a chance?

Sharkbiscuit

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Like not having a house, food or water?

All will kill you if you don't have them
If you're willing to not get drunk or shoot up, aren't all of these available for free? Like, can't you hit up the homeless shelter = way less chance of dying of exposure, and get some food and water?

What do we have now? Emergency Rooms (aka the most expensive form of healthcare?) can't turn people away, or scan a wrist/ankle for their latest United Health Care benefits chip implant, or what have you, anyone else who uses hospitals, ever, basically has to pay for that service rendered to someone who doesn't pay. The only tangible benefit over the ACA in that regard appears to be the ability to never need a hospital and therefore sidestep hospital equivalent of the ACA insurance mandate.

Gold is a market commodity. Health Care is often a service, and a heavily subsidized one in terms of covering people who have care as the result of Public Sector Union negotiations or political pressure.

So the least productive members of society by dint of being old or not productive enough to have money get Medicare/Medicaid, everyone else gets to try to make it to the ER before they drop dead, at which point the care will be expensive, relatively speaking.

Ifallalot I think your market absolutism might have a rebuttal for all this, but that's even less popular than fckng Bernie - GOOD JOB!!

It seems like the things you don't want to be done in the US aren't hypotheticals. We're already doing them. The shittiest way possible in many instances.
 
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FecalFace

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Ifail comparing health care to food has to be one of his best falacies.

Because $100k cancer treatment and $1 hamburger and totes the same.
 

Billy Ocean

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Healthcare shouldn’t be a market good

think of the nations health like infrastructure

you wouldnt let private companies control the highway system
 
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Sharkbiscuit

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Ifail comparing health care to food has to be one of his best falacies.

Because $100k cancer treatment and $1 hamburger and totes the same.
I don't think it's a fallacy, it's just his frame is laughable relative to popular reality. He's the one guy in the debate who yelled back YES when the moderators asked Ron Paul do we let the guy die.

I don't understand the working class sometimes. They don't want redistribution and they don't want to retrain. I mean the cotton gin preceded minimum wage laws; what do people expect? That they'd have their grampy's job with inflation-indexed compensation, just because?
 

Billy Ocean

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The problem is all of the people pushing national healthcare are p-ssies

if you had a macho guy do it, it would sell better

frame it in militaristic fitness terms

military is mad socialist but people mostly respect it
 
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One-Off

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The problem is all of the people pushing national healthcare are p-ssies

if you had a macho guy do it, it would sell better

frame it in militaristic fitness terms

military is mad socialist but people mostly respect it
The military model will have some push back from doves.

Instead frame it like the Fire Department. You wouldn't want to have to pay to have the FD come when your house is on fire would you?

Post 911 the FD is the most unassailable "socialist" program we have.
 
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rice

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If you're willing to not get drunk or shoot up, aren't all of these available for free? Like, can't you hit up the homeless shelter = way less chance of dying of exposure, and get some food and water?

What do we have now? Emergency Rooms (aka the most expensive form of healthcare?) can't turn people away, or scan a wrist/ankle for their latest United Health Care benefits chip implant, or what have you, anyone else who uses hospitals, ever, basically has to pay for that service rendered to someone who doesn't pay. The only tangible benefit over the ACA in that regard appears to be the ability to never need a hospital and therefore sidestep hospital equivalent of the ACA insurance mandate.

Gold is a market commodity. Health Care is often a service, and a heavily subsidized one in terms of covering people who have care as the result of Public Sector Union negotiations or political pressure.

So the least productive members of society by dint of being old or not productive enough to have money get Medicare/Medicaid, everyone else gets to try to make it to the ER before they drop dead, at which point the care will be expensive, relatively speaking.

Ifallalot I think your market absolutism might have a rebuttal for all this, but that's even less popular than fckng Bernie - GOOD JOB!!

It seems like the things you don't want to be done in the US aren't hypotheticals. We're already doing them. The shittiest way possible in many instances.
Yes. We already pay!

And we share the cost for all kinds of stuff, as I said earlier, for the betterment of our society and all of us. This is the same thing.
 

Sharkbiscuit

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Yes. We already pay!

And we share the cost for all kinds of stuff, as I said earlier, for the betterment of our society and all of us. This is the same thing.
(Edit: Some) costs would go up though. I've had health insurance for like 13 years. I haven't seen a doctor since I got the shots I needed for Costa Rica 23 years ago.

If I was certain I wouldn't have to become my own accounting and legal department, at every step of the way, on the off chance I actually exceeded my deductible and got something for my trouble, I'd use it.

If there was no needing to fill out every form in triplicate, signed by a notary public and United Health's legal department, my Doctor, Duval County, and the credit ratings agencies, I'd probably get a checkout or whatever the hell it is.
 
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hammies

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The thing about health insurance is, the cost of anything is so high you really need it. $20k/day for the hospital, even outpatient surgeries are $30K+ if they put you under. So basically getting sick = financial ruin for a lot of people, unless you have insurance. This is a particularly American problem, BTW.

Politicians, pundits, and other assorted gasbags talk all day long about the cost of insurance, but nobody ever talks about how to lower the actual cost of the services the medical system provides.
 
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Kento

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The thing about health insurance is, the cost of anything is so high you really need it. $20k/day for the hospital, even outpatient surgeries are $30K+ if they put you under. So basically getting sick = financial ruin for a lot of people, unless you have insurance. This is a particularly American problem, BTW.

Politicians, pundits, and other assorted gasbags talk all day long about the cost of insurance, but nobody ever talks about how to lower the actual cost of the services the medical system provides.
Nailed it. What's the answer for getting the actual costs down? How come every other developed nation can do it and we can't?
 
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Sharkbiscuit

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Aug 6, 2003
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The thing about health insurance is, the cost of anything is so high you really need it. $20k/day for the hospital, even outpatient surgeries are $30K+ if they put you under. So basically getting sick = financial ruin for a lot of people, unless you have insurance. This is a particularly American problem, BTW.

Politicians, pundits, and other assorted gasbags talk all day long about the cost of insurance, but nobody ever talks about how to lower the actual cost of the services the medical system provides.
Think about the number of people living paycheck to paycheck. Think about the average high deductible threshold, how many people can't cover that. If 43.2% of Americans have high deductible health plans, I think getting sick can be ruin for plenty of people with insurance.

 

FecalFace

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Politicians, pundits, and other assorted gasbags talk all day long about the cost of insurance, but nobody ever talks about how to lower the actual cost of the services the medical system provides.
Actually, Bernie talks about it all the time.

100% agree on the rest.

It's downright bizzare that the richest country in the world is the only developed country that doesn't guarantee health care to the taxpayers.

It's laughable that libertards like ifailalot think that because he has health insurance, other people wouldn't be paying for him if he or his family got sick and stuck with a 6 figure bill.

Or maybe he thinks he'll never get sick because he eats KEEETO

More childish than an anarchist.
 

VonMeister

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Apr 26, 2013
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JOE BIDENS RAPE FINGER
Actually, Bernie talks about it all the time.

100% agree on the rest.

It's downright bizzare that the richest country in the world is the only developed country that doesn't guarantee health care to the taxpayers.

It's laughable that libertards like ifailalot think that because he has health insurance, other people wouldn't be paying for him if he or his family got sick and stuck with a 6 figure bill.

Or maybe he thinks he'll never get sick because he eats KEEETO

More childish than an anarchist.
Another immigrant Russian sleeper.