DHD MF Eclipse

[Hazrus]

that was easy! ~AUD$450 is a good price too. I thought that facebook marketplace had largely replaced gumtree, but not so? The facebook second hand marketplace looks the worst I have seen it, prices plunged and some hardly used known model model boars not selling for weeks at prices such as $350. Maybe its particularly bad in Vic. I haven't been able to sell my local custom with "professionally repaired deck crease" for $150 and that price includes FCS carbon reinforced performer fins in perfect condition.

Your conversion to USD doesn't give a representative cost for our N hemi friends because we are not on US salaries - I say we as Australians, individual circumstances vary! We only need to take a look at the "great unbiased wetsuit review thread" to see that N America is on a completely different retail level to ours and that's not taking into consideration we are in a per capita recession. So its more like the equivalent of US $450 up there. Its not all bad here though, we are rich in waves.

Yeah $450AUD is what I bought it for.

It apparently retails for $1000 + $50 for a pad, so about 57% off new price for what was effectively new. Maybe that is a better comparison for the wave-starved Northern Hemisphere friends on here.

And trying to sell a board with a "professionally repaired deck crease" is going to be tough at the best of times, regardless of the market conditions.

 

[Mr J]

that's a good universal way of looking at it @Hazrus - almost 60% markdown on an almost new boar. I also like your how bad a boar sucks index which is the ratio of amount of boar model on the second hand market to number in the lineup. Another one which works better for the sparse lineups I've been surfing is ratio of amount hardly used boar model on the market to well used. The HS hypto does quite well - a high ratio of well used (loved) boars on the second hand market.

I think we can also gain some insight into relative costs by borrowing the Economist Magazine's Big Mac Index. Although I like to use it in a different way. So if we consider the Big Mac to be an indicator of the cost of living based on it being assembled with local labour and ingredients which can be easily sourced locally - N America, Europe and Australia are all capable of farming cows, wheat and canola oil or whatever is used to add grease to them.

So a new MF Eclipse at AU$1,000 is 151 local Big Macs. (AU 6.60 each)
MF Pheonix at US$ $755 is 134 local Big Macs (US 5.60 each)
Pyzel White Tiger GBP 680 is 188 local Big Macs (GBP 3.6 each)

The US comes out top in surfboar affordability relative to the cost of living. Although international brand surfboards are expensive in the UK I am jealous of their 5mm hooded winter wettie retail situation.

 

[waxfoot]

that's a good universal way of looking at it @Hazrus - almost 60% markdown on an almost new boar. I also like your how bad a boar sucks index which is the ratio of amount of boar model on the second hand market to number in the lineup. Another one which works better for the sparse lineups I've been surfing is ratio of amount hardly used boar model on the market to well used. The HS hypto does quite well - a high ratio of well used (loved) boars on the second hand market.

I think we can also gain some insight into relative costs by borrowing the Economist Magazine's Big Mac Index. Although I like to use it in a different way. So if we consider the Big Mac to be an indicator of the cost of living based on it being assembled with local labour and ingredients which can be easily sourced locally - N America, Europe and Australia are all capable of farming cows, wheat and canola oil or whatever is used to add grease to them.

So a new MF Eclipse at AU$1,000 is 151 local Big Macs. (AU 6.60 each)
MF Pheonix at US$ $755 is 134 local Big Macs (US 5.60 each)
Pyzel White Tiger GBP 680 is 188 local Big Macs (GBP 3.6 each)

The US comes out top in surfboar affordability relative to the cost of living. Although international brand surfboards are expensive in the UK I am jealous of their 5mm hooded winter wettie retail situation.

Came here for the lols, walked out being educated.

Learning about world economy wasn't on my bingo card for 2024 Honestly thought you cousins across the pond are doing it tough.... things sound fucking ridiculously expensive over there ... plus the weird unseen cost of having to tip every c!nt that walks past you.

 

[Mr J]

Came here for the lols, walked out being educated.
Honestly thought you cousins across the pond are doing it tough.... things sound fucking ridiculously expensive over there ... plus the weird unseen cost of having to tip every c!nt that walks past you.

Ha, our N American cuzs doing it tough?! They are buying custom yamamoto wetties over there. So it's only expensive if we visit and convert our AUD to USD. On the subject of tipping I have seen posts from erBB arriving with a case of beer to collect their local custom orders, I've never done that - should I?

Comparative cost of standard design PU/PE surboars is interesting because they are like Big Macs - put together with local labour and ingredients. Both US and Aus blow their own foam and are at least capable of weaving their own glass and producing resin although some import sillyness goes on I'm told. When it comes to labour, brand name boars are all built locally (except for JS who were too lazy to work with the Oceanside CA guilds).

So we are prepared to pay 151 local Big Macs for our boars, whereas the US consumer will only pay 134 Big Macs. I'd imagine we can mine glass cheaply so I hypothesize that the extra cost is going to labour. So cheaper boars relative to the cost of living is the wrong way to look at it from an ethical point of view. What it means is that we as Australian's value the skill of sanding/glassing relative to the difficulty of flipping burgers more than US consumers.

PS Waxy - you unloaded your Great White twin easily - was that on FB or gumtree or are you friendly with your local surfshop who felt bad about selling you a reject and did a trade in deal for your mid-length?

 

[waxfoot]

Ha, our N American cuzs doing it tough?! They are buying custom yamamoto wetties over there. So it's only expensive if we visit and convert our AUD to USD.

The cost of living there ( its a huge fucking place, but let's just say Socal'ish) struck me as insanely expensive - let's not even get into the cost of your actual life, your health (the thing that actually matters) even without converting currency. My life can be summarised in 3 parts so far, so I don't really do currency conversation, as I've lived in 3 countries. Hell knows how they can cough up the dough for virgin-pussy-fur-lined wetsuits once a year.

On the subject of tipping I have seen posts from erBB arriving with a case of beer to collect their local custom orders, I've never done that - should I?

Don't know, but I tend to do it. I bring South African Biltong though ( I hate to call it jerky, but let's just do that for the sake of brevity) .. it's just a habit of mine - I tip good c!nts with meat ( tattoo artist last week was frothing on his bag of meat) - the same with a shaper.

PS Waxy - you unloaded your Great White twin easily - was that on FB or gumtree or are you friendly with your local surfshop who felt bad about selling you a reject and did a trade in deal for your mid-length?

I don't use Gumtree at all anymore, it's all Facebook Marketplace. I put a touch more effort in though, so I think it helps me unload easily - I don't know if it makes a difference, but it's the way I'm wired. I take good pics, I clean the board, I write a good description ... and actually put the dims in the description, instead of just saying " look at the dims in the dogshit photo I took"

 

[Black]

....I write a good description ... and actually put the dims in the description, instead of just saying " look at the dims in the dogshit photo I took"

<Open rant>
This really gets my goat. By the time you've written "look at the pics for dims" you could have just typed the dims, moran.
And the title without at least length in it means I have to look at ten photos of a 5'6" to find its not a 6'2", time wasting morans... grrrrr!
<Close rant>

 

[Mr J]

The cost of living there ( its a huge fucking place, but let's just say Socal'ish) struck me as insanely expensive - let's not even get into the cost of your actual life, your health (the thing that actually matters) even without converting currency. My life can be summarised in 3 parts so far, so I don't really do currency conversation, as I've lived in 3 countries. Hell knows how they can cough up the dough for virgin-pussy-fur-lined wetsuits once a year.
.. .

I've had a 3 part life too.
brought up in the UK, S Wales where I learned to surf. Left for 1y in the US, but that was brief - moved to Australia in 1989 for the obvious reasons - Reston was 4hrs from the east coast surf. Then ~2000 moved to San Jose, CA where I was well paid compared to Aus then and now.

Its not just the salary, its the variety of consumable goods, most of which are cheaper than here. So lets take that custom virgin-pussy-fur-lined wetsuit that I have been coveting. There is only one source that I know of - Zak surfshop northern suburbs of Melbourne are an Axxe dealer. There is no Cyber here. So pricing is not clear, but the main website gives two pricings, one for US and one for EU (confusingly in USD). So I'd assume I'd be on Euro pricing at best, so looking at AU $1,560 which is 236 aussie big macs. So doing the purchasing power parity conversion and multiplying 236 US big macs by 5.60 each is US $1,323 - that's over 300 more than the US price and I bet they can get custom Cybers for less than that.

As for health, jobs like ours in the US typically come with health insurance as part of the salary package. Here in Aus I pay AU$130 a month for medibank private - which recently came in useful as I am now recovering from my very expensive rotator cuff surgery which I wouldn't have been able to get done in a reasonable time by state healthcare (not serious enough).

 

[Mr J]

<Open rant>
And the title without at least length in it means I have to look at ten photos of a 5'6" to find its not a 6'2", time wasting morans... grrrrr!
<Close rant>

And I have to look at twenty photos of a 6' 2" to find out its not a 5' 6".

Can you help me understand why UK surfers are prepared to pay 188 great British Big Macs for a locally built Pyzel? According to the Aku machine directory there are two machines in Cornwall. Does the UK blow blanks? I know its perfectly capable of weaving glass, I'm guessing doesn't make the easy to lap surfboar grade because not enough surfboar industry to support it.

I did my home made boars out of UK manufactured unidirctional roofing sheet glass when I lived there, light and strong but a bugger to lap.

You got a good wettie situation, I've been buying 5mm hooded xcel drylocks on visits to the UK which are not available here. I've stopped that, because I've got more fussy about getting suits that fit instead of too big for me.

 

[Black]

And I have to look at twenty photos of a 6' 2" to find out its not a 5' 6".

Can you help me understand why UK surfers are prepared to pay 188 great British Big Macs for a locally built Pyzel? According to the Aku machine directory there are two machines in Cornwall. Does the UK blow blanks? I know its perfectly capable of weaving glass, I'm guessing doesn't make the easy to lap surfboar grade because not enough surfboar industry to support it.

I did my home made boars out of UK manufactured unidirctional roofing sheet glass when I lived there, light and strong but a bugger to lap.

You got a good wettie situation, I've been buying 5mm hooded xcel drylocks on visits to the UK which are not available here. I've stopped that, because I've got more fussy about getting suits that fit instead of too big for me.

188 big macs on a uk made Pyzel saves a whole lot more on an import. Boards are just very costly here (could be due to importing materials?). I know Ocean Magic up the road do them and they've been going since the 70s if I remember right. Pyzel gave them the contract so he must think they're worthy? No different to any other contract made boards in other countries?

As for blowing blanks there used to be a few here in the UK but I'm not 100% sure who's doing that now. Most are imported.

As for using roofing glass - I like to see a free-lap, why the ubiquity of cut-lap in artisan boards?

I had to order my last wetsuit from the continent during lockdown as there were none left here in my size, so not always the perfect situation but yes, most shops usually have a really good selection and they always sell as its bloody freezing in winter although climate change means I've done the last few winters in a 4/3.

 

[pterodroma]

Homeblown are no more as far as I know, so possibly no UK blown blanks these days. I think a PU Ocean Magic/Pyzel will be a Burford blank & seabase supply US blanks... So we probably pay hefty import costs for raw materials here.

 

[pterodroma]

Can you help me understand why UK surfers are prepared to pay 188 great British Big Macs for a locally built Pyzel?

The premium for a Pyzel branded board compared to a local shaper is not that much.

You have a better chance of selling/trading a big brand board if needed (still expect heavy depreciation though).

Lots of UK surfers are relatively high income adult learners.

Everything is expensive in the UK so surfboard pricing doesn't feel too outrageous.

 

[Mr J]

Yes, @Black and @pterodroma , the Aku machine directory listed Ocean Magic as one the 2 UK factories and that's where I got the Pyzel price from and assumed they must be made locally. So blanks, surfboard grade resin and glass are being imported.

Its not that the UK is incapable of manufacturing those 3 ingredients, its that there is not enough local industry to support it. So the extra cost of importing would explain the price and because the Pyzel is not that much more expensive than Ocean Magic's in-house brand it doesn't look like brand pricing power - some royalties would need to go to Pyzel.

 

[sdsrfr]

I think we can also gain some insight into relative costs by borrowing the Economist Magazine's Big Mac Index. Although I like to use it in a different way. So if we consider the Big Mac to be an indicator of the cost of living based on it being assembled with local labour and ingredients which can be easily sourced locally - N America, Europe and Australia are all capable of farming cows, wheat and canola oil or whatever is used to add grease to them.

So a new MF Eclipse at AU$1,000 is 151 local Big Macs. (AU 6.60 each)
MF Pheonix at US$ $755 is 134 local Big Macs (US 5.60 each)
Pyzel White Tiger GBP 680 is 188 local Big Macs (GBP 3.6 each)

The US comes out top in surfboar affordability relative to the cost of living. Although international brand surfboards are expensive in the UK I am jealous of their 5mm hooded winter wettie retail situation.

Our Big Mac index shows how burger prices are changing

In what countries is the ubiquitous meal cheapest—and dearest?

www.economist.com

 

[Black]

Yes, @Black and @pterodroma , the Aku machine directory listed Ocean Magic as one the 2 UK factories and that's where I got the Pyzel price from and assumed they must be made locally. So blanks, surfboard grade resin and glass are being imported.

Its not that the UK is incapable of manufacturing those 3 ingredients, its that there is not enough local industry to support it. So the extra cost of importing would explain the price and because the Pyzel is not that much more expensive than Ocean Magic's in-house brand it doesn't look like brand pricing power - some royalties would need to go to Pyzel.

We do have resin manufacturers in the UK and we have boat builders etc. so I don't understand why we import board resin, maybe its a numbers game.

 

[Hazrus]

I love how this thread has morphed.

 

[Mr J]

View attachment 175272

Our Big Mac index shows how burger prices are changing

In what countries is the ubiquitous meal cheapest—and dearest?

www.economist.com

View attachment 175272

Our Big Mac index shows how burger prices are changing

In what countries is the ubiquitous meal cheapest—and dearest?

www.economist.com

That's interesting, the British pound is very slightly overvalued compared to the US$ on the Big Mac index, I would have thought that due to the US$ being the unofficial world reserve currency it would command a higher value based on that meaning just about every other currency would be undervalued in purchasing power terms, with only dodgy countries doing strange things to overvalue.

The Economist don't intend that their index be taken too seriously and it does have a couple of problems - the idea of using a universally available basket of services and materials as a benchmark is nice, but basing it on that it should cost the same everywhere is not right because the finished product is not something that can be exported and still remain edible. So in countries where labour is cheap we wouldn't expect a Big Mac to cost the same, - it should be cheaper. Also when beef noodle soup from a food cart in Vietnam is really cheap and more tasty (I've never been there, but guessing) then McDonald's might have to lower its price to compete. The index show this too - the south east asian countries being exceptionally undervalued (despite having plenty of goods to export which should send the value up) and as for my idea that only dodgy countries could have an overvalued currency Switzerland came out top and they do have a reputation for having an opaque banking system hiding the assets of billionaires. Disclaimer - I don't really understand this stuff.

The Economist's index is intended to show whether currencies are overvalued in purchasing power parity terms, my index is different and less general use to anyone other than us on the erBB. My index attempts to show how expensive it is to support a surfing hobby relative to the cost of living. It doesn't show how materially well off we are - we would need to do something like take the median or average per capita disposable income and find out how many burgers and boards an individual could buy in each country, I have no idea how to do that - maybe you are right @waxfoot and my anecdotal experience of living abroad is not representative because it was a long time ago - it seems to have got harder to maintain a job like ours in Aus, or maybe I'm just getting too old for it.

Anyway @sdsrfr thanks for digging up the actual index, my quick search on burger prices got prices a bit wrong, so assuming the Economist has got things right, the corrected burger prices are
US $5.69
AU $7.70
GPB 4.49

So my updated surfboards relative to the cost of living index is

132 Big Macs for a US built DHD Phoenix
130 Big Macs for an Australian build DHD Eclipse
151 Big Macs for a Cornish built Pyzel White Tiger.

So quite possibly we value surf labour much the same, taking into account that the UK has higher resin, foam and glass import costs.

 

[Mr J]

We do have resin manufacturers in the UK and we have boat builders etc. so I don't understand why we import board resin, maybe its a numbers game.

Maybe not enough surfboar building in the UK. The British made lay up resin, gel coat resin, woven roving and chopped strand glass are interchangeable for making kayaks, dinghies and boats, but not surfboars. Chopped strand takes too much resin, the rovings too coarse or the wrong weight - I managed to get some locally made woven glass of the right weight in the UK when I was building boars in my mother's back garden, but it wouldn't conform to the shape of the board and the tail rails in particular were full of air bubbles.

I don't understand this import export business either, we got a local manufacturer of surfboar grade glass Colan, but I know that some factories here use imported glass while Colan manages to export to other countries. Local builders sometimes use imported resin too despite making it here - one factory told me that the American resin is easier to work with.

Yesterday I almost bought "New Zealand's favourite peanut butter", then I thought to myself Mayvers peanut butter is delicious, Australian and available so I dismissed my curiosity. Maybe things aren't as simple for glass and resin.

 

[Mr J]

@Hazrus, as far as I know Victoria doesn't produce any of the big brands, its just boutique shapers, some of them shaping by hand and factories with machines doing local little known brands and boards for surshops. Maybe Maurice Cole gets some made locally, when he is here, but he is sort of boutique status. I think the big names like Channel Islands, Haydenshapes, Pyzel, Chilli, JS, DHD etc are all in NSW and Qld. Are the NSW factories located close to Sydney?

 

[Black]

Maybe not enough surfboar building in the UK. The British made lay up resin, gel coat resin, woven roving and chopped strand glass are interchangeable for making kayaks, dinghies and boats, but not surfboars. Chopped strand takes too much resin, the rovings too coarse or the wrong weight - I managed to get some locally made woven glass of the right weight in the UK when I was building boars in my mother's back garden, but it wouldn't conform to the shape of the board and the tail rails in particular were full of air bubbles.

I don't understand this import export business either, we got a local manufacturer of surfboar grade glass Colan, but I know that some factories here use imported glass while Colan manages to export to other countries. Local builders sometimes use imported resin too despite making it here - one factory told me that the American resin is easier to work with.

Yesterday I almost bought "New Zealand's favourite peanut butter", then I thought to myself Mayvers peanut butter is delicious, Australian and available so I dismissed my curiosity. Maybe things aren't as simple for glass and resin.

Yes, part of it may be like, the big named surfboard makers are using this resin so we'll use it too.
I could ask someone!!

Incidentally I thought the Eclipse looked really interesting until this thread unravelled it

 

[freeride76]

Interesting chat gents.

Culture plays a big part, as mentioned.

Surf culture in UK is young and dominated by lots of high income newbies so price is not an issue (they are used to paying big dollars for recreation).
Older culture in Aus/US/Hawaii of more hard core surfers who are not used to or prepared to pay big dollars except for hipster/fashion boards that have changed the pricing structure.