they are. underfunded pensions are the generational time bomb nobody wants to deal with.GromsDad said:
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College costs.
- Thread starter GromsDad
- Start date
Yeah, trump is a scam artist
But what is the difference between trump u and hundreds of supposedly not for profit small colleges with low admissions standards?
But what is the difference between trump u and hundreds of supposedly not for profit small colleges with low admissions standards?
I turned down a few baseball scholarships to go to a 2 year trade school in ATL (advertising school)
was hired before graduating, (still graduated)
and had a job before most of my friends every got out of a 4 year college. In the biz at 20, still going at 50.
highly recommend going to a trade school if you know what you want to do.
was hired before graduating, (still graduated)
and had a job before most of my friends every got out of a 4 year college. In the biz at 20, still going at 50.
highly recommend going to a trade school if you know what you want to do.
And there you have it. The purpose of education is to serve the individual. The idea that it takes a 4yr degree to learn how to read and write and think critically is asinine. The immigrant guy whose command of English is limited but who knows how to work on your car would be incapable of doing that job if they didn't have some critical thinking skills and the ability to identify and work the problem in front of them. As is true for all the trades. As is true for virtual any skilled occupation you could name.
IRL people learn what they need to know to the extent that they actually have that need. The Star Wars geek or the political hack that fixates on that one aspect of their life demonstrates the ability of people to learn what they want to learn on the self-directed basis - and THAT is the primary attribute that many 4yr degree holders take with them into their lives who don't go on to work in their field of study.
IRL people learn what they need to know to the extent that they actually have that need. The Star Wars geek or the political hack that fixates on that one aspect of their life demonstrates the ability of people to learn what they want to learn on the self-directed basis - and THAT is the primary attribute that many 4yr degree holders take with them into their lives who don't go on to work in their field of study.
I taught a sales training class for years and I can tell you that a sales career can be a great alternative to spending years in college. Although even an advanced sales degree (if that actually exists) means nothing unless you apply what you learned. And if you're one of the 90%+ who fail in sales, you need only to look in the mirror to see who's fault it was. Blaming the sales school for your failure is no worst than a law school graduate, blaming the law school for not passing the Bar exam.
Not sure if that was in response to the little Trump image above, but I completely agree with you.JEwing said:
The only time I take issue with an institution of "higher education" is when they lie to get students to commit to them. For instance, if a sales school "guarantees" you will see 50% increased sales and they don't have the track record to back it up, that's a problem. The law school example is salient. Several schools are in the midst of lawsuits right now based on false claims about graduate employment rates. Schools were reporting 90% employment within 6 months of graduation, but failed to divulge that they counted literally any kind of job in that number. Kids committed to law school - and took on tremendous debt - based on the false notion they were essentially guaranteed a job in the law after employment. Then reality smacked them in the face. But yes, even in those instances your mileage will vary greatly based on your own self motivation.
Whatever
Big picture
Thousands of students all over the country are lured into massive debt based on explicit or implicit promise of better careers
Outside of good schools and practical majors it is false
Everyone knows this
Big picture
Thousands of students all over the country are lured into massive debt based on explicit or implicit promise of better careers
Outside of good schools and practical majors it is false
Everyone knows this
For 2016 the top-10 fields of study for 4-yr degree graduates were
19%..Business
12%..Health Professionals and related jobs
..8%..Social Sciences and History
..6%..Biological and biomedical sciences
..6%..Engineering
..6%..Psychology
..5%..Communication, journalism and related programs
..5%..Education
..5%..Visual and Performing Arts
19%..Business
12%..Health Professionals and related jobs
..8%..Social Sciences and History
..6%..Biological and biomedical sciences
..6%..Engineering
..6%..Psychology
..5%..Communication, journalism and related programs
..5%..Education
..5%..Visual and Performing Arts
According to GDaddy post below, if we tally up Social Sciences and History, Psychology, Visual and Performing Arts, we get 19%. 24% if you think there is nothing of value in Comms or Journalism.BillyOcean said:
So worst case scenario, less than 1/4 of the students at the crappier private schools is your "big picture"? Without considering who is actually signing up for that?
You seem to indicate you live Up Nawth. I don't know if you live in Southie or Martha's Vineyard. I grew up in a decidedly Martha's Vineyard place. I little-brother-of-a-former-coworker know one (1) person who served in the War on Terror (cough naturalized Latin American immigrant cough) but I know plenty who went to Rollins, Stetson, Wheaton (Mass) etc.
The successful ones and the ate up on drugs ones have the same life, in West Greenwich Village or Williamsburg or wherever. As long as they don't pull a Kushner and leverage a $2B building at the absolute top of the cycle, they'll never, ever, ever have a problem with debt. Ever.
And for a liberal arts education at a boutique private school? Trust me, engineering at a public university isn't impressing their Range Rover and Yacht Club cocktail party set.
No, the big picture is the other 76% who are employed where the decent jobs are, but are getting bent over by the all powerful financial institutions.
GDaddy said:
And before GromsDad unleashes the kracken, Id like to say that I partially agree with him. College costs are out of control and they are sold as a mandatory step to a better life. The story that isnt told (and I think needs to be) , it that not all educations are created equal. You need to do a value assessment into every decision that you make especially one that could cost six figures. Going to be an engineer? Go ahead and go to a 4 year school (or at least graduate from one). Going to be a grade school teacher ? Consider a less expensive option.
We're doing our kids a disservice by this fable that we tell them "you can be anything you want to be, just go to college and everything will work out". The story should really be "no one loves their job all the time. Decide what you're good at or able to do then look at some jobs that might play to those attributes. Find the best path to that career while weighing how much it will cost to get there".
Also a conversation that needs to happen with kids is that not all jobs are created equal , or are equally likely. If a kid wants to be a teacher, great, but that conversation should come with a picture of what a teacher's salary actually is, and what a teacher's life is actually like.
We're doing our kids a disservice by this fable that we tell them "you can be anything you want to be, just go to college and everything will work out". The story should really be "no one loves their job all the time. Decide what you're good at or able to do then look at some jobs that might play to those attributes. Find the best path to that career while weighing how much it will cost to get there".
Also a conversation that needs to happen with kids is that not all jobs are created equal , or are equally likely. If a kid wants to be a teacher, great, but that conversation should come with a picture of what a teacher's salary actually is, and what a teacher's life is actually like.
Sharkbiscuit said:
Uhh, those are the top 10 fields of study, but there are more. If you break all the fields of study into bigger groups the totals come out a little different.
Going through the entire list and ilking each field of study into (a) the trades or technical, (b) commerce of some form, or (c) socially oriented - including education and journalism, theology and the like, it came out to
27% under the trades and technical fields like engineering, communication technology, health professionals, biomed,and the lke
29% under commerce, like business, architecture, legal, physical sciences
44% under the people-oriented fields like social sciences, psychology, multiidisciplinary studies, literature, etc.
What I trip out on is the willingness of people to spend more when they could be smart and spend less for the same thing.
Getting a BA is fantastic.
Spending 120 gs to get it is a misappropriation of resources.
Getting a BA is fantastic.
Spending 120 gs to get it is a misappropriation of resources.
I was poking around the graduation rates across time and found that the different fields of study are trending differently.
The total number of 4yr degrees being tracked increased between 2012-2016 by 7%. This is the column i arbitrarily ilked under the (c) category as being oriented to people, not things or forms of commerce.
-15% Ethnic/Group Studies
+10% Communications/Journalism
-17% Education
-20% English, literature and linguistics
+08% Family and Consumer Sciences
-15% Foreign Languages
-07% Liberal arts and general studies
-11% Library Science (95 in 2012 to 85 in 2017)
+07% Interdisciplinary Studies
+31% Parks, Recreation and Fitness Studies (39k in 2012; 51k in 2016)
-20% Philosophy, religious studies
+08% Psychology
+16% Public Administration (30k in 2012; 34.4K in 2016)
-10% Social Sciences and History
+05% Theology and Religious vocations
-03% Visual and Performing Arts
So some are more/less trending the same in relation to the totals, a couple are trending up but many declined significantly in relation to the totals. Which means the (arguably) more commercially viable fields would be increasing. I haven't broken those out yet.
The total number of 4yr degrees being tracked increased between 2012-2016 by 7%. This is the column i arbitrarily ilked under the (c) category as being oriented to people, not things or forms of commerce.
-15% Ethnic/Group Studies
+10% Communications/Journalism
-17% Education
-20% English, literature and linguistics
+08% Family and Consumer Sciences
-15% Foreign Languages
-07% Liberal arts and general studies
-11% Library Science (95 in 2012 to 85 in 2017)
+07% Interdisciplinary Studies
+31% Parks, Recreation and Fitness Studies (39k in 2012; 51k in 2016)
-20% Philosophy, religious studies
+08% Psychology
+16% Public Administration (30k in 2012; 34.4K in 2016)
-10% Social Sciences and History
+05% Theology and Religious vocations
-03% Visual and Performing Arts
So some are more/less trending the same in relation to the totals, a couple are trending up but many declined significantly in relation to the totals. Which means the (arguably) more commercially viable fields would be increasing. I haven't broken those out yet.