10 Myths About Lower Back Pain (LBP)

[SurfDoc]

Fortunately, I don't see a lot of "misinformation" on these boards, but there is a lot of conjecture and opinion. Nothing wrong with that. Those who read the boards should take the conjectures and opinions with a grain of salt. For example, you wouldn't want to take my advice on what stocks to buy based on what I write here.

 

[Bob Dobbalina]

Had a cortisone epidural shot yesterday. That was an interesting experience.

They gave me Ativan and a shot of something to loosen me up. That was enjoyable. I wasn't pain free, but it certainly made me more amenable to the whole process and took some of the edge of certain movements that have been difficult (getting to a standing position).

I haven't been in the prone position in months because it's too painful (lying flat on my back isn't much better), so trying to put myself flat on a table was excruciating. I got close enough after a few attempts and was moaning in pain from the feeling in my hip flexors, glutes, and back. and then the actual shot was wild. Like a painful current of electricity running up and down the nerves from my pelvis to my hips and legs. It wasn't the sharp pain of the muscle spasms or the jolt of back pain that I'm accustomed to, but honestly much more like grabbing on to an electric fence or grabbing a live wire (ask me how I know).

Luckily it dissipated quickly. The actual injection process from getting on to the table, getting the local anesthetic and the cortisone, to getting off the table was only about 15 minutes. The whole appointment was about an hour. I felt better that day. Walked a few blocks by the house, probably pushed it a bit far trying to walk down the hill to the water and back, but my body was noticably straighter, lacking the "hip out- upper body lean to the left-hunched at the waist-knees bent like a frail 80 year old". I slept through the night for the most part with no painful spasms keeping me up which was a huge improvement. It still hurts in my legs when I move, and sleeping still required my upper body be propped up and on my side with a pillow between my legs. Rolling over when my hip got sore was tough but still possible.

This morning I did not have the excruciating pins and needles experience getting out of bed that I've had for the better part of the month. It was still tough and I had pain in my hamstring area and my knees, but the worst of it abated. I still get muscle spasms around my hip flexors/groin, and sitting down on a low seat (getting into my car this morning was not worth it so i bailed on it) is painful, but overall I'd say I'm feeling a bit better. Hopefully it improves through the week.

 

[grg]

Had a cortisone epidural shot yesterday. That was an interesting experience.

They gave me Ativan and a shot of something to loosen me up. That was enjoyable. I wasn't pain free, but it certainly made me more amenable to the whole process and took some of the edge of certain movements that have been difficult (getting to a standing position).

I haven't been in the prone position in months because it's too painful (lying flat on my back isn't much better), so trying to put myself flat on a table was excruciating. I got close enough after a few attempts and was moaning in pain from the feeling in my hip flexors, glutes, and back. and then the actual shot was wild. Like a painful current of electricity running up and down the nerves from my pelvis to my hips and legs. It wasn't the sharp pain of the muscle spasms or the jolt of back pain that I'm accustomed to, but honestly much more like grabbing on to an electric fence or grabbing a live wire (ask me how I know).

Luckily it dissipated quickly. The actual injection process from getting on to the table, getting the local anesthetic and the cortisone, to getting off the table was only about 15 minutes. The whole appointment was about an hour. I felt better that day. Walked a few blocks by the house, probably pushed it a bit far trying to walk down the hill to the water and back, but my body was noticably straighter, lacking the "hip out- upper body lean to the left-hunched at the waist-knees bent like a frail 80 year old". I slept through the night for the most part with no painful spasms keeping me up which was a huge improvement. It still hurts in my legs when I move, and sleeping still required my upper body be propped up and on my side with a pillow between my legs. Rolling over when my hip got sore was tough but still possible.

This morning I did not have the excruciating pins and needles experience getting out of bed that I've had for the better part of the month. It was still tough and I had pain in my hamstring area and my knees, but the worst of it abated. I still get muscle spasms around my hip flexors/groin, and sitting down on a low seat (getting into my car this morning was not worth it so i bailed on it) is painful, but overall I'd say I'm feeling a bit better. Hopefully it improves through the week.

Get some Percocets and you won't even know you have a back. I remember the Epidural days for me. Gives some relief and sometimes doesn't. Get well

 

[Bob Dobbalina]

Get some Percocets and you won't even know you have a back. I remember the Epidural days for me. Gives some relief and sometimes doesn't. Get well

A coworker said the same about Percs.

I have Tramadol and Gabapentin right now. Kaiser ain't trying to prescribe opiates for chronic pain at the moment. Frankly, I'm ok with it at the moment. We'll see what happens moving forward.

 

[grg]

A coworker said the same about Percs.

I have Tramadol and Gabapentin right now. Kaiser ain't trying to prescribe opiates for chronic pain at the moment. Frankly, I'm ok with it at the moment. We'll see what happens moving forward.

Tramadol is def. low level. Never had Gaba...
Most places are steering away from the gnar drugs although I have a bunch from my last surgery LOL.

 

[tacos]

Took 21 pages for a thread about treating LBP with strength training to devolve into using opioids for chronic LBP. Knice.

What is the best lift for treating opioid induced hyperalgesia?

 

[One-Off]

Well I hope the meds can get you on the road to recovery. It's just a little helping hand to get you moving. I know what a relief it is to be able to do just basic things without crippling pain, like walking.

Tramadol is an opiate, although not heavy. I had Percocet when I got my ear drilled. I remember waking up after the first night with that and saying to myself, "That was the best night's sleep I've ever had." I felt soooo good. I recognized right away that it could be addictive. I tapered off them as fast as I possibly could. Same with tramadol. The ER gave me a week supply and I used it for two days and then stopped. If I were you I would try to do the same.

My back pain has persisted for two months now despite constant exercise. It moved mostly to my glute. I had a follow up with the PT and he told me to back off the bridges and supermans. He said anytime anything seems to be making something worse, then hold off until the pain subsides and then slowly add it back in.

A close friend just dislocated his shoulder. I told him it was time to get on the strength training train. He's a great surfer, but a 6'-1" string bean. He's 61 and still on low volume short boards. Getting old sucks!

 

[Mr J]

... my body was noticably straighter, lacking the "hip out- upper body lean to the left-hunched at the waist-knees bent like a frail 80 year old"...

one of the things that I have picked up is that muscle spasms, pain and muscles switching off are the bodies attempt to protect itself from further damage, but sometimes the body does not know best and some sort of intervention is needed. If the altered muscle action goes on too long then it can create further problems. I am talking out of my arse about stuff I don't know, but hoping this gives you some encouragement that whatever gets you standing straighter and walking more normally is going to be good for getting your body recovered.

 

[Mr J]

Question for VM. I watched this video because this week I have my appt with the cardiologist.

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… .

Never heard the term "vasalva" before - does it just mean holding ones breath? That vid made me smile, if any of the vids posted here smell of bro science it is that one. What the lady is saying might be true for all I know, its just the way it is delivered - so serious and dramatically in front of a squat school classroom

Serious question for VM - I thought the idea was to breath out while raising the weight - done in a slow controlled manner a bit like letting the air out of a tire, sound right?

 

[VonMeister]

Never heard the term "vasalva" before - does it just mean holding ones breath? That vid made me smile, if any of the vids posted here smell of bro science it is that one. What the lady is saying might be true for all I know, its just the way it is delivered - so serious and dramatically in front of a squat school classroom

Serious question for VM - I thought the idea was to breath out while raising the weight - done in a slow controlled manner a bit like letting the air out of a tire, sound right?

A valsava is taking and holding a large breath and creating pressure inside your body by tightening your core muscles against your now expanded abdomen. This pressure keeps your spine very rigid and protects against injury.

When you see people wearing a weight belt or delivery guys wearing a belt around their waist, it's not for support, it's to increase the amount of internal pressure you can build by providing additional resistance.

You want to breath in before you lift the weight, and hold your breath until the completion of the rep, where you gather another if you have another rep, or just breath normally if you are finished. You never want to exhale while lifting a weight. That would reduce internal pressure.

 

[Mr J]

I know I am. But, in my world, at least up until now, minor sh!t didn't put me in the ER unable to stand unassisted. And it's over but the pain is not gone. My wife thinks I'm over exercising. I spend 2-3 hours every evening, when I used to be on the couch watching TV, doing a myriad of exercises.
.. .

I know you only been squatting light with dumbbells, but you are not trying to do squats every day are you? Heavy exercises need recovery days, I used to squat twice a week, which is 2 and 3 day rest intervals. Go a bit heavier before the 3 day rest. Maybe starting out light would be good every other day. VM and Havoc would be able to advise on this.

Elastic band exercises for smaller muscles are different. I have been prescribed elastic band exercises every day by one physio, isometric too from same physio. Another one prescribed 5 days a week for elastic band exercises.

edit --> not sure about planking, but I would have thought twice a week is enough, that's what I used to do. Doing my home training session a week now due to more days in the water. I have been extrapolating on professional advice with my home routine - I am doing more than any one health professional has prescribed individually.

 

[One-Off]

I know you only been squatting light with dumbbells, but you are not trying to do squats every day are you? Heavy exercises need recovery days, I used to squat twice a week, which is 2 and 3 day rest intervals. Go a bit heavier before the 3 day rest. Maybe starting out light would be good every other day. VM and Havoc would be able to advise on this.

Elastic band exercises for smaller muscles are different. I have been prescribed elastic band exercises every day by one physio, isometric too from same physio. Another one prescribed 5 days a week for elastic band exercises.

edit --> not sure about planking, but I would have thought twice a week is enough, that's what I used to do. Doing my home training session a week now due to more days in the water. I have been extrapolating on professional advice with my home routine - I am doing more than any one health professional has prescribed individually.

Yeah, I've been doing everything every evening.....

 

[Mr J]

Yeah, I've been doing everything every evening.....

that's too much llilibel! need rest days to build strength. Its only little things like some rotator cuff and little tear drop shaped vastus medialis above knee that can be done every day and its not so much a case of making them strong, but getting them working properly. As you might guess I am built far from perfect - that's how I know these things. Surely the physio didn't prescribe the planking type stuff every day?

I would guess VM, Havoc, GWS are even on some sort of upper body lower body split training system where they do just legs one day, then chest and shoulders the next day. Some body builders even have just arm days. Could we have some suggestions from the collective erBB think tank please?

 

[Havoc]

No split. Train 2-3 days a week. When the dL gets heavy u will alternate with rows or chins to allow for recovery. Squat every session but can alternate a light day in there once it gets heavy.

 

[One-Off]

Really? Even just body weight exercises need rest days? Push ups, pull-ups, body weight squats (10lb dumbbells), planks? I think I read in another thread about paddling fatigue in the general section some guy who does like 50 pull-ups every day. I've been doing sets of 7-8 (presently my form fail point) 2-3 times a day. Been doing 2 sets of 20 push ups and then 2 set of 25 on my knees. I figure I'm not surfing and need to get some exercise. Deadlifts right now only 55lb 10 reps once or twice a day. So even these "light" exercises require rest days?

PTs never mentioned or asked about the number of reps or frequency of what I was doing, though I showed him a list of everything. I guess I was thinking what a PT said about my neck stretches and the fact that the pain was not going away. He said, "Try doing them 3 times a day." So I was thinking if some is good then more is better.

Fook me. Shows how much I know about all this stuff.

Maybe alternate exercise days with stretch days?

 

[Mr J]

sounds like far too much, you are stronger than me if you can 7-8 pull ups every day, multiple sets per day, but I reckon you are setting yourself up for over-use tendonitis if you carry on like that. You getting your chin above the bar? I try not to arch my back when pulling up, but nobody told me that.

My chiro is a competitive body builder and knows what I am up to with the planking type stuff (as mentioned I call it planking, but its stuff I do with a ball), when I started I asked if it sounded ok and at twice a week and was told "that's plenty, don't want to overdo it". The physio who prescribed my dumbbell overhead presses (at a weight quite heavy for me - 8 ten reps sort of stuff) looks after AFL players - a tough sport - not as rough as rugby, but approaching it. I can't remember exactly, but he had prescribed me either 2 or 3 times a week max for that. He was the one who has had me on rotator cuff elastic band exercises every day x 3 times a day though - as mentioned I had another shoulder physio who thought elastic band 5 days a week again 2 or 3 times a day.

If you want to do something most days then maybe some sort of split system for you. Stretches vary - for things like hamstrings I would do them immediately after bent rows and going surfing, but not on rest days. You know the really gentle stretch which you got given - lie on your back, pull one knee up to chest keep the other leg straight? I got prescribed them every day, plus 3 other "easy type" stretches - they are different from really extending (sorry not a medical term) a ham string or trying to increase range of motion for taekwondo.

Even after massage/foam roll I will rest the next day - there can be some muscle break down from a deep tissue massage - I know Havoc and VM are sniggering its alright chaps, I am enjoying the exchange of opinion/information.

That hip flexor vid you posted - I would guess that sort of thing can be done every day/most days.

edit --> you also doing pull ups in a steady controlled manner - not using any swinging type momentum to help you up?

 

[Chee-to]

Really? Even just body weight exercises need rest days? Push ups, pull-ups, body weight squats (10lb dumbbells), planks? I think I read in another thread about paddling fatigue in the general section some guy who does like 50 pull-ups every day. I've been doing sets of 7-8 (presently my form fail point) 2-3 times a day. Been doing 2 sets of 20 push ups and then 2 set of 25 on my knees. I figure I'm not surfing and need to get some exercise. Deadlifts right now only 55lb 10 reps once or twice a day. So even these "light" exercises require rest days?

PTs never mentioned or asked about the number of reps or frequency of what I was doing, though I showed him a list of everything. I guess I was thinking what a PT said about my neck stretches and the fact that the pain was not going away. He said, "Try doing them 3 times a day." So I was thinking if some is good then more is better.

Fook me. Shows how much I know about all this stuff.

Maybe alternate exercise days with stretch days?

Not necessarily. It depends on how taxing the workouts are to both your muscles and central nervous system, and how much (and high quality) the food, rest (and maybe steroids) you're getting are. National team Olympic weightlifters will sometimes squat 8x per week. Yoga and Pilates are basically bodyweight exercises - people do those daily or more frequently without issue. Convicts probably do bodyweight training more frequently than you are now and get ridiculously strong and ripped. The more CNS taxing the lift is, the longer rest you're going to need. 3x3 squats at 60% of your 1RM and you can probably go again an hour later. Max out or go to failure on deadlifts and you might want to give it a week.

 

[VonMeister]

I know you only been squatting light with dumbbells, but you are not trying to do squats every day are you? Heavy exercises need recovery days, I used to squat twice a week, which is 2 and 3 day rest intervals. Go a bit heavier before the 3 day rest. Maybe starting out light would be good every other day. VM and Havoc would be able to advise on this.

Elastic band exercises for smaller muscles are different. I have been prescribed elastic band exercises every day by one physio, isometric too from same physio. Another one prescribed 5 days a week for elastic band exercises.

edit --> not sure about planking, but I would have thought twice a week is enough, that's what I used to do. Doing my home training session a week now due to more days in the water. I have been extrapolating on professional advice with my home routine - I am doing more than any one health professional has prescribed individually.

As a novice, max effort three days a week with two consecutive days of rest after day three....adding 5lbs of weight to the bar every workout is the general guideline. Example MON, WED, FRI are training days.


Personally I'm not trying to hit numbers, I'm applying stress so I use observed effort when I train people and bring them incrementally to a working set, then some back off sets from there....which is how I train myself. It takes experience to know what your effort is so for someone without experience or a trained eye to assist the previous formula works.

Small muscles and big muscles all work together. Rubber bands as a means of focusing on small muscles is a waste of time and one of the red flags that the person prescribing isn't qualified to give this advice.

 

[One-Off]

As a novice, max effort three days a week with two consecutive days of rest after day three....adding 5lbs of weight to the bar every workout is the general guideline. Example MON, WED, FRI are training days.


Personally I'm not trying to hit numbers, I'm applying stress so I use observed effort when I train people and bring them incrementally to a working set, then some back off sets from there....which is how I train myself. It takes experience to know what your effort is so for someone without experience or a trained eye to assist the previous formula works.

Small muscles and big muscles all work together. Rubber bands as a means of focusing on small muscles is a waste of time and one of the red flags that the person prescribing isn't qualified to give this advice.

I assume you're talking weights. Do you need to rest between days of bodyweight exercises? I'm not getting sore so I never figured I was over exerting. Never really feel exhausted.

My glute thing is not soreness, it's momentary intense spasm reactions, so I'm thinking it's still a nerve thing. If it was from the body weight squats, I figure both glutes would be sore but it's only my right side. Fooking annoying.

I found sitting on the couch is kryptonite, kills my back, so this is what I'm doing instead, every evening. It's spread out over 3 hours.


Neck and shoulder (from previous PT sessions)-

Chin Tuck (several times a day)

Shoulder external rotation with band, squeeze blades, simultaneously- neck extension (look up)

Neck rotation with towel

Side bending with towel

Prone on elbows, press up, look left and right ( like paddling looking at wave behind )



Back (on stomach)-

Plank 2 minutes

Side plank, left and right , 1 minute each

Push ups- 20, 10,

Push ups from knees- 25, 25

Quadruped rocking “child pose’( between each exercise)

Cat cow

Superman



Back (on back)-

Single knee to chest stretch

Trunk twist

Bridge (with extended leg)

Supine hamstring stretch with belt

Crunches



Lunges 10 x 2

Squats (with 10 lb dumbbells) 10 x 2

Overhead press 25 (dumbbells )



Hangs

Pull ups 5-7 (2x day)

Chin ups 5-7 (2x day)

Dead lift 5 x 2 (55lbs)

 

[Havoc]

dont Do crunches