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SF beatdown

B

Bob Dobbalina

Miki Dora status
Feb 23, 2016
4,361
4,771
113
casa_mugrienta said:
San Francisco now joining the ranks of Indianapolis, Cleveland, and Detroit.

If you've ever been to Indianapolis (and not just on a business trip - please no "Indianapolis is a hidden gem" stupidity) you know something is REALLY wrong when one of the most desirable cities on the planet has fallen into the same ranking.

Recovery Rankings

www.downtownrecovery.com www.downtownrecovery.com

View attachment 137809
Click to expand...

:ROFLMAO:
Downtown Bakersfield is better than it's ever been........
 
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B

Bob Dobbalina

Miki Dora status
Feb 23, 2016
4,361
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To be fair,
The Bay area in general, particularly Oakland, San Jose, and San Francisco, are in a pretty wild time in regard to homelessness. Are they vast post apocalyptic wastelands? no. The majority of all of those areas are great. But there are some areas thickly concentrated with people outside in varying degrees of crisis.

The demographic of people living in unstable housing situations is very, very wide. COL is insane, but there is demand for low wage (but still better wages than elsewhere) labor, forcing many families and otherwise single people into temporary housing situations, living out of a vehicle, or without a home. People ask me how I can afford to live in SF when I work in SJ, but San Jose is now the most expensive city in the country.

The Bay Area is not alone in the opiod crisis, but it's worn pretty visibly. It's a massive issue. SF spends A LOT of money to address "homelessness" but collectively, we haven't figured out "what to do".

Criminalizing poverty vs quality of life of others
Personal Autonomy vs Forced Care
Harm Reduction vs Whatever other plan people think will work.

As always, homelessness, poverty, mental health, and drug use is not a "problem" until it's visible. But whatever the answer is, we haven't reached it yet.
 
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PRCD

PRCD

Tom Curren status
Feb 25, 2020
12,810
8,830
113
Bob Dobbalina said:
To be fair,
The Bay area in general, particularly Oakland, San Jose, and San Francisco, are in a pretty wild time in regard to homelessness. Are they vast post apocalyptic wastelands? no. The majority of all of those areas are great. But there are some areas thickly concentrated with people outside in varying degrees of crisis.

The demographic of people living in unstable housing situations is very, very wide. COL is insane, but there is demand for low wage (but still better wages than elsewhere) labor, forcing many families and otherwise single people into temporary housing situations, living out of a vehicle, or without a home. People ask me how I can afford to live in SF when I work in SJ, but San Jose is now the most expensive city in the country.

The Bay Area is not alone in the opiod crisis, but it's worn pretty visibly. It's a massive issue. SF spends A LOT of money to address "homelessness" but collectively, we haven't figured out "what to do".
Click to expand...
SF spends $1 billion per year. The homeless industrial complex is paid handsomely for its work - truly a pork-barrel project they can retire on.
Criminalizing poverty vs quality of life of others
Personal Autonomy vs Forced Care
Harm Reduction vs Whatever other plan people think will work.

As always, homelessness, poverty, mental health, and drug use is not a "problem" until it's visible. But whatever the answer is, we haven't reached it yet.
Click to expand...
This problem has nothing to do with poverty - it's a drug problem. Even the psychotic homeless became that way through hard drug use. But the problem pays very well for its constituents, thus the homeless you will always have with you.
 
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Random Guy

Random Guy

Duke status
Jan 16, 2002
32,160
6,351
113
PRCD said:
SF spends $1 billion per year. The homeless industrial complex is paid handsomely for its work - truly a pork-barrel project they can retire on.

This problem has nothing to do with poverty - it's a drug problem. Even the psychotic homeless became that way through hard drug use. But the problem pays very well for its constituents, thus the homeless you will always have with you.
Click to expand...
Blaming the victim
Did all people with mental illness get that way through hard drug use, or just the homeless ones?
 
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PPK96754

PPK96754

Miki Dora status
Apr 15, 2015
4,699
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Kauai's north shore ~
Drugs have no boundaries, like COVID. It touched every Class of modern day society

Some seek help. Other's, have better resources to escape the drug plague. Still, other can only wallow in their own poop and despair. Sucks, in any case because you got in from the start .... and getting out, an't so easy as it was, getting in.
 
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hammies

hammies

Duke status
Apr 8, 2006
15,611
14,264
113
PRCD said:
SF spends $1 billion per year. The homeless industrial complex is paid handsomely for its work - truly a pork-barrel project they can retire on.

This problem has nothing to do with poverty - it's a drug problem. Even the psychotic homeless became that way through hard drug use. But the problem pays very well for its constituents, thus the homeless you will always have with you.
Click to expand...
There are multiple entry points on the homelessness / substance abuse / mental illness spiral. Easy to get in, but exit points are really hard to find. Once in you either have to work hard to find the exit or be dragged out kicking and screaming.
 
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PRCD

PRCD

Tom Curren status
Feb 25, 2020
12,810
8,830
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santacruzin said:
Its a mental illness problem the drug abuse is a symptom. Started with Reagan.
Click to expand...
Reagan was in office a long time ago - almost half a century. Anyways, the backlash against the mental hospitals started long before him:

Time to deal with reality today. Anything else is just making excuses.

I'm not a hard drug user so I can't say what gets them started. Down the street, a 20-something young man is now on all kinds of anti-psychotic meds because he started using pot and progressed to hard drugs and had a psychotic break. His stepfather said he was the most popular kid in school before this and now his personality is completely changed. He has a home to go to but otherwise looks like these other street drug addicts. We have a lot of drug users on here. Mental health caused you all to use? Were mental health services unavailable at the time, or they just failed? Was the solution locking you up in a mental hospital until you got well? This seems to be the path Andrew Doheny is on.
 
B

Bob Dobbalina

Miki Dora status
Feb 23, 2016
4,361
4,771
113
PRCD said:
SF spends $1 billion per year. The homeless industrial complex is paid handsomely for its work - truly a pork-barrel project they can retire on.

This problem has nothing to do with poverty - it's a drug problem. Even the psychotic homeless became that way through hard drug use. But the problem pays very well for its constituents, thus the homeless you will always have with you.
Click to expand...

We agree in some nuances, and differ on others.

The $ pipe will direct much of the flow, indeed.
And there are plenty of drug addicts that are not on the street.
 
PRCD

PRCD

Tom Curren status
Feb 25, 2020
12,810
8,830
113
Bob Dobbalina said:
We agree in some nuances, and differ on others.

The $ pipe will direct much of the flow, indeed.
And there are plenty of drug addicts that are not on the street.
Click to expand...
A friend just died of a fentanyl overdose in his mid 40s. He wasn't on the street and had a job. Another friend who died years earlier wasn't on the street either. Sounds like you're saying not all addicts are on the street therefore addiction does not cause homelessness, is that right?
 
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santacruzin

santacruzin

Kelly Slater status
Oct 17, 2007
9,037
10,153
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valley purgatory
PRCD said:
Reagan was in office a long time ago - almost half a century. Anyways, the backlash against the mental hospitals started long before him:

Time to deal with reality today. Anything else is just making excuses.

I'm not a hard drug user so I can't say what gets them started. Down the street, a 20-something young man is now on all kinds of anti-psychotic meds because he started using pot and progressed to hard drugs and had a psychotic break. His stepfather said he was the most popular kid in school before this and now his personality is completely changed. He has a home to go to but otherwise looks like these other street drug addicts. We have a lot of drug users on here. Mental health caused you all to use? Were mental health services unavailable at the time, or they just failed? Was the solution locking you up in a mental hospital until you got well? This seems to be the path Andrew Doheny is on.
Click to expand...
Great point. You clearly know a lot about this so I will defer to your expertise.

How do we solve this?
 
PRCD

PRCD

Tom Curren status
Feb 25, 2020
12,810
8,830
113
santacruzin said:
Great point. You clearly know a lot about this so I will defer to your expertise.

How do we solve this?
Click to expand...
Get them off the street and into treatment followed by work (dignity). "Housing first" is a grift for rich developers colluding with bureaucrats. The other aspects of the homeless industrial complex are a well-paying jobs program for bureaucrats and need to be shut down.

On the supply side, capital punishment for drug dealers (bye bye Eddie Rothman).
 
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Ifallalot

Ifallalot

Duke status
Dec 17, 2008
88,977
18,013
113
PRCD said:
Reagan was in office a long time ago - almost half a century. Anyways, the backlash against the mental hospitals started long before him:

Time to deal with reality today. Anything else is just making excuses.

I'm not a hard drug user so I can't say what gets them started. Down the street, a 20-something young man is now on all kinds of anti-psychotic meds because he started using pot and progressed to hard drugs and had a psychotic break. His stepfather said he was the most popular kid in school before this and now his personality is completely changed. He has a home to go to but otherwise looks like these other street drug addicts. We have a lot of drug users on here. Mental health caused you all to use? Were mental health services unavailable at the time, or they just failed? Was the solution locking you up in a mental hospital until you got well? This seems to be the path Andrew Doheny is on.
Click to expand...
What's up with Andrew Doheny?
 
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