It's been there for a while - sorry to get off thread but judging from some of the comments - somewhat relevant. When i moved back to SoCal from Oahu in the early eighties .... i had some of the same feelings expressed here - crowds, shitty waves, attitudes etc ..... started branching into other things - i.e. rock climbing. When i started everything was outdoors .... you learned not just about climbing but proper safety, setting anchors, handling the rope, knots, figuring out what route to take, etc. After a few years - the first climbing gym opened in SoCal .... it wasn't long before a handful more opened. All of a sudden - you had people showing up at outdoor climbing spots who claimed they had been climbing for months yet didn't have a clue about safety, setting anchors, proper climbing etiquette and when you tried to coach or explain to them - they'd have a whole bunch of attitude. They would get stuck on a climb and freeze because they were so used to just following the color coded climbing holds and never had to think about what route they were taking and potential difficulty. The absolute worst though - were the Boy Scout or Church - father/son outings. The kids were never the problem - the "dads" were always the problem and a danger to themselves, their group and everyone else at the location. It was like a bad Chevy Chase or John Candy movie - where the "Dads" were out to prove to the other dads or their sons how macho they were when they'd hadn't been outdoors for years. As soon as we see one of those groups - we would bail to some other location as fast as we could.