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Universal Basic Income

S

Surfdog

Duke status
Apr 22, 2001
21,817
2,032
113
South coast OR
LoonPointLocal said:
Skilled tradesmen bill to the client between $90 and $110 an hour. Ever try to hire a plumber tok fix that leak? Maybe a little workers comp reform by way of universal health care could solve your conundrum.

You would be in favor of that, right? Universal healthcare would be able to reduce that $10 an hour per worker that goes to cover a workplace injury insurance.

Do you even payroll, bro?
Click to expand...
I was talking entry level tradesmen/apprentices (fairly well over minimum wages). Not skilled or senior skilled trades.

Of course they charge $90-110 an hr.

Pretty much what I charge clients for my time designing PCB's at home. (like making a 3D maze CAD puzzle, and solving it at the same time). Yes, I payroll and know I need to make at least $150k a year to break even after taxes, health insurance and internet/phone for my biz, if I pay myself roughly $60+ a hour (sometimes more, sometimes less). I usually make more than that, but last year, some clients went skeleton crew in engineering and no new projects due to Covid. They're just maintaining existing product with minor updates if at all. Luckily others continued onward as they're more leading edge R&D or other well positioned industries not dependent on basic public consumption.

If average wages go up, I and many other trades will have to start charging $150-$200 and hr. Lawyers and other professional services will follow in rates, and on upward it goes.

If we get to Universal healthcare, we'll have a whole new payroll tax to deduct from our checks. Like SS and Medicare today. How much % of MORE our checks is anyone's guess.
 
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S

Surfdog

Duke status
Apr 22, 2001
21,817
2,032
113
South coast OR
Autoprax said:
Why is the surf dog worried about minimum wage going up?
Click to expand...
Because if it's doubled on a national scale, most everyone else near and over that $15 an hour will expect close to that near double increase in wages also.

That or increased automation, or jobs going faster to 3rd world where they pay pennies on the dollar we pay.

Can you say massive inflation pressures? Sure you can.
 
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L

LoonPointLocal

Feb 24, 2021
56
51
18
Surfdog said:
I was talking entry level tradesmen/apprentices (fairly well over minimum wages). Not skilled or senior skilled trades.

Of course they charge $90-110 an hr.

Pretty much what I charge clients for my time designing PCB's at home. (like making a 3D maze CAD puzzle, and solving it at the same time). Yes, I payroll and know I need to make at least $150k a year to break even after taxes, health insurance and internet/phone for my biz, if I pay myself roughly $60+ a hour (sometimes more, sometimes less). I usually make more than that, but last year, some clients went skeleton crew in engineering and no new projects due to Covid. They're just maintaining existing product with minor updates if at all. Luckily others continued onward as they're more leading edge R&D or other well positioned industries not dependent on basic public consumption.

If average wages go up, I and many other trades will have to start charging $150-$200 and hr. Lawyers and other professional services will follow in rates, and on upward it goes.

If we get to Universal healthcare, we'll have a whole new payroll tax to deduct from our checks. Like SS and Medicare today. How much % of MORE our checks is anyone's guess.
Click to expand...
You know of apprentices getting paid $30 an hour? I don't. Can you get me one of those sweet gigs, making $30 an hour at entry?

You make payroll? How many guys you got working for you?
 
Autoprax

Autoprax

Duke status
Jan 24, 2011
68,891
23,506
113
62
Vagina Point
Surfdog said:
Because if it's doubled on a national scale, most everyone else near and over that $15 an hour will expect close to that near double increase in wages also.

That or increased automation, or jobs going faster to 3rd world where they pay pennies on the dollar we pay.

Can you say massive inflation pressures? Sure you can.
Click to expand...
Are you really afraid of that?
 
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hammies

hammies

Duke status
Apr 8, 2006
15,672
14,362
113
kidfury said:
hamburgers will cost more
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Yeah but not for the reasons you think.

At some point the cost of robotics will get low enough and the cost of labor will get high enough that fast food will eventually automate and employ far less workers. But, they'll still raise the price of hamburgers and blame higher wages, while profits skyrocket.
 
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S

Surfdog

Duke status
Apr 22, 2001
21,817
2,032
113
South coast OR
Autoprax said:
Are you really afraid of that?
Click to expand...
Myself, not "afraid". Rapid inflation is hardest on the poor and lower middle class.

Like inflation in housing/rent costs, utilities, and other necessities haven't been enough lately?

Even in our "low to zero inflation" of averaged out costs for everything else we've taken for granted the last 35 years?

We're seeing it creep up faster in the restaurant services costs. Every time the minimum wage goes up another dollar closer to the $15 an hour next year, we see another dollar added per item costs to plates, sandwiches, main dishes. Imagine doubling it in a year or 2?

Do you even pay rent or a mortgage? I don't think so, from what we've gathered from your posts here (living at mom's house in coastal O'side a block from the beach).
 
donuts

donuts

Tom Curren status
Jan 23, 2005
12,237
1,775
113
@ the fun house
hammies said:
Yeah but not for the reasons you think.

At some point the cost of robotics will get low enough and the cost of labor will get high enough that fast food will eventually automate and employ far less workers. But, they'll still raise the price of hamburgers and blame higher wages, while profits skyrocket.
Click to expand...
 
Autoprax

Autoprax

Duke status
Jan 24, 2011
68,891
23,506
113
62
Vagina Point
Surfdog said:
Myself, not "afraid". Rapid inflation is hardest on the poor and lower middle class.

Like inflation in housing/rent costs, utilities, and other necessities haven't been enough lately?

Even in our "low to zero inflation" of averaged out costs for everything else we've taken for granted the last 35 years?

We're seeing it creep up faster in the restaurant services costs. Every time the minimum wage goes up another dollar closer to the $15 an hour next year, we see another dollar added per item costs to plates, sandwiches, main dishes. Imagine doubling it in a year or 2?

Do you even pay rent or a mortgage? I don't think so, from what we've gathered from your posts here (living at mom's house in coastal O'side a block from the beach).
Click to expand...
Why must you always mischaracterize?

My mom's been dead for 12 years.

I just don't have the scarcity mindset about money that you have.

And I bet I have far less.
 
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S

Surfdog

Duke status
Apr 22, 2001
21,817
2,032
113
South coast OR
hammies said:
Yeah but not for the reasons you think.

At some point the cost of robotics will get low enough and the cost of labor will get high enough that fast food will eventually automate and employ far less workers. But, they'll still raise the price of hamburgers and blame higher wages, while profits skyrocket.
Click to expand...
Those burger flipping robots are not cheap, and need constant maintenance. Being a robot repair man will be in high demand.

So 2 or 3 low paying jobs go, and one new better paying one is created.

Mom and pop shops will have a tough time competing/surviving, but corpo-burger will adjust and knock them out with kiosks, Jetson's style

.
 
S

Surfdog

Duke status
Apr 22, 2001
21,817
2,032
113
South coast OR
Autoprax said:
Why must you always mischaracterize?

My mom's been dead for 12 years.

I just don't have the scarcity mindset about money that you have.

And I bet I have far less.
Click to expand...
We know she's been passed away for years, rest her soul.

You live in the house she left you, rent free, is what I was getting at.
 
donuts

donuts

Tom Curren status
Jan 23, 2005
12,237
1,775
113
@ the fun house
Autoprax said:
I love how you make stuff up.
Click to expand...
i always thought you said you had living arrangements with your old music teacher...

most of us here picture a lot of harmony & falsetto action in the aprax household.

of course, most (not speaking for myself, really...) erbbers just believe what they want to believe...


:)
 
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