***Official FIRES thread***

grapedrink

Duke status
May 21, 2011
26,384
15,202
113
A Beach
So what?
Get a ladder installed at your pad, climb it once a week, clean 'em.
Just like i do on my shark research vehicle which has 4 ~100 watt panels on it,
with plenty of agm batteries to store them watts, so i don't have to spend gas $$ to go into town to charge my stuff...
Solar is thee sheee~it!
Get up on my roof once a week? Screw that.
 
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afoaf

Duke status
Jun 25, 2008
49,904
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you could smell the fires from bed this morning....

strong offshores last night
 

~rwright~

Michael Peterson status
Apr 14, 2015
2,544
971
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Los Angeles~California!
Get up on my roof once a week? Screw that.
Well,
if your panels are on a slanted roof,
you could alwayz just hose thee grime off...
My truckz panels are flat, so i do indeed clean 'em as needed,
especially as i spend my 'old'' dayz at thee beach, gettin' sea~spray+pch grime on 'em...

but so what?
i get free electricty, from thee sun, when i'm parked,
or if i'm out kayakin'+observin' my local L.A environment,
or heck even drivin' 'round town, + guess what, i dig it!
You like payin' thousands, over thee years, for electricity?
:cursing:
 

Mr Doof

Duke status
Jan 23, 2002
25,023
7,980
113
San Francisco, CA
Imagine if we didn't still use 19th century technology to deliver electricity to our homes.
You don't have to if you don't want to.

Just get yourself one of these bad boys.

I mean, if it works for your car by powering it through the lighter port, surely it could power your whole block.

 

grapedrink

Duke status
May 21, 2011
26,384
15,202
113
A Beach
I'd be all for hosing them down . . .. From the ground.

As for cost/benefit, my power bill averages $40-45/month, so I would need to get at least 20+ years out of a system just to cover the install cost. No way in hell I would deal with any of those leasing companies who camp out at Coscto/Lowes/Home Depot and their sketchy contracts. IMO the tech still has a ways to go, but if PGE starts regularly shutting down power where I live, that would certainly push me in that direction.
 

ElOgro

Duke status
Dec 3, 2010
32,482
12,594
113
Pretty sure that's what hal meant by our technology being 19th century. Don't most developed countries run their power lines under ground? No worry about wind there.
Not so much in rural areas.
 

Mr Doof

Duke status
Jan 23, 2002
25,023
7,980
113
San Francisco, CA
you could smell the fires from bed this morning....

strong offshores last night
Woke up in the middle of the night to scent of smoke.

Neighbor's house on fire or ours.

Get out of bed, walk to the front and back window, and nope, no glare of flame, so I shut the windows and go back to bed.

This A.M. decided not to fill my lungs with condensing particulate matter by cycling to work, so I took BART in.

As the BART was coming into my SF station from the East BAY, it was pushing a tube of smokey air before it from West Oakland station. Get on BART headed downtown, and when I get off at Embarcadero station, the scent of smoke/fire was even stronger.

Bleah.
 

Mr Doof

Duke status
Jan 23, 2002
25,023
7,980
113
San Francisco, CA
Not so much in rural areas.
Super expensive to run lines underground, slow to build out, then someone had to keep track of where they are, and then earthquakes/landslide/construction/trees/erosion happen. But yeah, fires from downed lines might make everyone want to pay a boatload more for undergrounding the lines.
 

ElOgro

Duke status
Dec 3, 2010
32,482
12,594
113
I'd be all for hosing them down . . .. From the ground.

As for cost/benefit, my power bill averages $40-45/month, so I would need to get at least 20+ years out of a system just to cover the install cost. No way in hell I would deal with any of those leasing companies who camp out at Coscto/Lowes/Home Depot and their sketchy contracts. IMO the tech still has a ways to go, but if PGE starts regularly shutting down power where I live, that would certainly push me in that direction.
It wouldn’t be all that expensive to patch your way around power outages
 

ElOgro

Duke status
Dec 3, 2010
32,482
12,594
113
Super expensive to run lines underground, slow to build out, then someone had to keep track of where they are, and then earthquakes/landslide/construction/trees/erosion happen. But yeah, fires from downed lines might make everyone want to pay a boatload more for undergrounding the lines.
That’s the bottom line.
 

Mr Doof

Duke status
Jan 23, 2002
25,023
7,980
113
San Francisco, CA
I'd be all for hosing them down . . .. From the ground.

As for cost/benefit, my power bill averages $40-45/month, so I would need to get at least 20+ years out of a system just to cover the install cost. No way in hell I would deal with any of those leasing companies who camp out at Coscto/Lowes/Home Depot and their sketchy contracts. IMO the tech still has a ways to go, but if PGE starts regularly shutting down power where I live, that would certainly push me in that direction.
We did some math on putting solar on our SF roof top a number of years ago.

Rough numbers are based on that.

1 Might as well put new roof up while putting on solar - $15,000
2 Cost for average set of panels, wiring, permitting - $25,000
3 Cost for good battery storage (optional but useful?) - $20,000
4 Average power and gas during 6 summer months - $300
5 Average power and gas during 6 winter months - $600
6 Still have to pay PGE line fees monthly - so $100 a year

Therefore power and gas is approximately $1000 a year, so it would take 40 yrs to recover cost at the low end.

Barely had the $ to buy the place in the '90s, so couldn't afford the upgrade then. I could put it in now, but unless I stay put and live another 40 years here, could recover cost (but I could put it in and sell the place, and add it to the sale price, but it would be an amortized gain, so....) Then I just rebuilt my stairs, etc., and blew up my savings, so now I definitely can't afford it now.

I think new roofs haven't gotten cheaper, but maybe solar installs have(?), so the above figuring is possibly invalid, but a reasonable starting point for a single family home in SF.
 

Mr Doof

Duke status
Jan 23, 2002
25,023
7,980
113
San Francisco, CA
Yeah, it can't cost much more than this, and this is only for one year.
View attachment 81992
A friend of mine lives in the Oakland hills where it all burned to the ground in the early 90s.

He paid $300 every month for the last 20+ years to underground the lines in that part of the hills.

$72,000 from one household (20 years * $300 * 12 months).

Now lets talk to someone in the Hayward/San Leandro hills and use $350 a month because inflation....$84,000.

"I'll take my chances and save $84,000. I'm more careful about those things they were."

Lots of humans think like this. We are tough to convince that someone else's problems can become ours.
 

ElOgro

Duke status
Dec 3, 2010
32,482
12,594
113
We did some math on putting solar on our SF roof top a number of years ago.

Rough numbers are based on that.

1 Might as well put new roof up while putting on solar - $15,000
2 Cost for average set of panels, wiring, permitting - $25,000
3 Cost for good battery storage (optional but useful?) - $20,000
4 Average power and gas during 6 summer months - $300
5 Average power and gas during 6 winter months - $600
6 Still have to pay PGE line fees monthly - so $100 a year

Therefore power and gas is approximately $1000 a year, so it would take 40 yrs to recover cost at the low end.

Barely had the $ to buy the place in the '90s, so couldn't afford the upgrade then. I could put it in now, but unless I stay put and live another 40 years here, could recover cost (but I could put it in and sell the place, and add it to the sale price, but it would be an amortized gain, so....) Then I just rebuilt my stairs, etc., and blew up my savings, so now I definitely can't afford it now.

I think new roofs haven't gotten cheaper, but maybe solar installs have(?), so the above figuring is possibly invalid, but a reasonable starting point for a single family home in SF.
But ...”Everyone has a share!” And it’s not free.

My son/wife/jr. and two nieces evacuated from Santa Rosa.
 

rice

Duke status
Jul 2, 2002
24,304
1,801
113
CA
I hope there is some serious restructuring of energy company services.

A company that the public is beholden to requires some regulation. Some of that regulation needs to be reinvestment in safe equipment. High wind events aren't new. Fires aren't new. But reinvestment in safer, newer technology rather than windfall returns on investment could help. I'm not a fan of knee jerk legislation, but the fact that rate payers, with limited-no other option, shoulder the burden for corporate mismanagement while investors and administration continue to make mega $$ is wrong. Not my area of expertise, but that's my take.
This.
 

rice

Duke status
Jul 2, 2002
24,304
1,801
113
CA
Super expensive to run lines underground, slow to build out, then someone had to keep track of where they are, and then earthquakes/landslide/construction/trees/erosion happen. But yeah, fires from downed lines might make everyone want to pay a boatload more for undergrounding the lines.
It's going to cost a ton, and it's going to take a long time, but it needs to get started.
 

studog

Duke status
Jan 15, 2003
35,863
637
113
CA
Getty fire is just right above me. Drove past there on the 405 last night about 11am and there wasn't any fire. crazy how fast it started.
 

JBerry

Billy Hamilton status
Dec 8, 2017
1,602
873
113