Varial RIP

[tedshred]

I’m bummed about this because a year ago I tried one and was sold. I wonder if they could set up their own factory and actually produce the foam under licensing to use the formula from whoever they were buying the blanks? Would take a big capital investment but maybe they were paying the producers a ton to make it worth while and manufacturing themselves would be able to get costs closer to PU.

Also as mentioned above cutting themselves out of the equation by selling the blanks direct to shapers would probably help get the name out there.

Fortunately I ordered 6 in January on a Yolo.

 

[Duffy LaCoronilla]

A buddy has an Album on order with Varial foam and Infused Glass. We had been discussing the apparent liquidation and ceasing custom orders through their site. My buddy asked Matt Parker what was up and his response from yesterday was (copy pasted):

"Ya Varial is done. Such a bummer. They only owned the license usage of the foam for watersports. THe aerospace co that owns the formula & manufactures it cut them off permanently. not a big enough market for them to waste their time with unfortunately. I think your Disaster is the last order that made it under the cut!"

That‘s a neat story.

 

[Mr J]

... Stay tuned for part 2

ok, so I was on the right track when I first suggested that rectangular slabs thick enough to accommodate rocker were being supplied. I also said "or maybe as Sharky alluded to, they are thermoformed - needs a high temp to avoid springback, doesn't sound cheap. "

So Evonik say it can be thermoformed at low or high temp (200c). At low temp they say "however, the panel must be held in form during subsequent processing."

As a side note when I was a hobbyist in California, I obtained one of the last blue Dow XPS rectangular slabs produced for surfboards thick enough to accommodate rocker. You know this, but for others XPS is the generic name for the foam XTR uses. I hot wirecut it with two masonite rocker templates pinned to either side and by the time it was outlined and further shaped down, I would have ended up throwing more than half the volume away - terrible waste. I've also glued two thinner sheets of pink XPS/EPS together to make a thicker one which is why I gave @stringcheese 's glue up suggestion the thumbs up. There would be cosmetic issues from the glue line with a non sandwich lam.

Nevertheless, you gave my post the thumbs down. I am not necessarily expecting an answer and enjoying wondering if it is because:
a) I've guessed the wrong foam - its not PMI.
b) The reason for discontinuation is not due to the manufacturers reluctance to produce slabs of suitable dimensions.
c) or you are not impressed with the promotional material I shared from Varial


I got a theory on the double springback in your part 1. The foam would have insulating properties so without prolonged exposure to a hot oven only the outer layer of the sheet would become thermoelastic and the outer layers would be holding in place a tensioned inner core. So once the thermoformed outer layers are machined off the inner layer is free to spring back to its original shape.

Regarding your PVC stringer suggestion - custom stringers and bending the polyurethane when glueing up was how Clark and others produced custom rockers wasn't it? It must have worked, although I always wondered that when it got shaped down the perimeter would want to curl back up a little, so if say a rocker increase was supplied then when machined the hull might concave a little?

I enjoyed your insider tales, thanks for sharing.

 

[casa_mugrienta]

I obtained one of the last blue Dow XPS rectangular slabs produced for surfboards thick enough to accommodate rocker. You know this, but for others XPS is the generic name for the foam XTR uses.

They stil make these, XTR has a warehouse full of them.

 

[surfwhere]

The Australian PU seems to be even better judging from my last few boards.

Rumors for some AU big name(s) were blanks made and cut in or closer to China. Then those got shipped to AU and finish shaped + glassed there. That allows the Country of Origin to be Australia. So maybe not an Aussie blank on all brands they sell in US.

 

[casa_mugrienta]

Rumors for some AU big name(s) were blanks made and cut in or closer to China. Then those got shipped to AU and finish shaped + glassed there. That allows the Country of Origin to be Australia. So maybe not an Aussie blank on all brands they sell in US.

Interesting.

Whatever the case, both the Aussie boards I've ridden over the past few years seem to be a superior foam product, one being a handshape.

 

[jkb]

I was told Varial uses rocker beds during glassing.

 

[oeste858]

It’s one of the Mayhems isn’t it

dibs!

 

[Sharky]

ok, so I was on the right track when I first suggested that rectangular slabs thick enough to accommodate rocker were being supplied. I also said "or maybe as Sharky alluded to, they are thermoformed - needs a high temp to avoid springback, doesn't sound cheap. "

So Evonik say it can be thermoformed at low or high temp (200c). At low temp they say "however, the panel must be held in form during subsequent processing."

As a side note when I was a hobbyist in California, I obtained one of the last blue Dow XPS rectangular slabs produced for surfboards thick enough to accommodate rocker. You know this, but for others XPS is the generic name for the foam XTR uses. I hot wirecut it with two masonite rocker templates pinned to either side and by the time it was outlined and further shaped down, I would have ended up throwing more than half the volume away - terrible waste. I've also glued two thinner sheets of pink XPS/EPS together to make a thicker one which is why I gave @stringcheese 's glue up suggestion the thumbs up. There would be cosmetic issues from the glue line with a non sandwich lam.

Nevertheless, you gave my post the thumbs down. I am not necessarily expecting an answer and enjoying wondering if it is because:
a) I've guessed the wrong foam - its not PMI.
b) The reason for discontinuation is not due to the manufacturers reluctance to produce slabs of suitable dimensions.
c) or you are not impressed with the promotional material I shared from Varial


I got a theory on the double springback in your part 1. The foam would have insulating properties so without prolonged exposure to a hot oven only the outer layer of the sheet would become thermoelastic and the outer layers would be holding in place a tensioned inner core. So once the thermoformed outer layers are machined off the inner layer is free to spring back to its original shape.

Regarding your PVC stringer suggestion - custom stringers and bending the polyurethane when glueing up was how Clark and others produced custom rockers wasn't it? It must have worked, although I always wondered that when it got shaped down the perimeter would want to curl back up a little, so if say a rocker increase was supplied then when machined the hull might concave a little?

I enjoyed your insider tales, thanks for sharing.

Hey, I was moving fast. The thumbs down was for the video. Considering all the problems no stringer was causing me, watching them brag about it triggered me. My bad. You were pretty darn close re a bunch of that.

 

[trifish]

Nothing better than a soft, rounded edge from the front fins through the tail. - an XTR classic, added as a surprise gift to you, compliments of the house.

Never seen that issue with any of mine and i've had a lot of them. I guess i'm lucky

 

[JDJ]

Hey @Sharky, I recall you were an early user of Varial. I don’t know if their processes improved over time but FWIW Stamps told me was carefully measuring all of the cuts done in house by Varial for his boards and they were accurate.

 

[Sharky]

Hey @Sharky, I recall you were an early user of Varial. I don’t know if their processes improved over time but FWIW Stamps told me was carefully measuring all of the cuts done in house by Varial for his boards and they were accurate.

I think they eventually got it more figured out, as I indicated. Some of their blank profiles had ridiculous rockers. A lot of the time, I was cutting flatter rocker profiles out of blanks that had high rocker numbers nose and tail. I would wind up tilting, raising, lowering the design file to get it to fit. That would leave the design file much closer to one side than the other. These were really thick blanks that were the same thickness on the nose/tail blocks as they were at center. But, as I previously mentioned, if you got a rocker profile in the blank that kind of paralleled that of the design file and then sunk the design file into the blank file, things went better. To simplify, you wanted say an inch of foam over the deck of the design file and an inch of foam under the bottom of the design file. (I pulled the 1 inch thing out at random for explanation purposes) And you wanted that as even as possible as you headed out in either direction to the nose and tail. The concept of letting it spring both ways and finding equilibrium in there was valid.

When they got their machine I mostly ceased to have to deal with it. I just sent my customers to them. Some of them wouldn't go, and I would wind up doing them anyway, but it was infrequent after that. Thankfully.

 

[shoaltoad]

A couple more hard booches and I just might yolo the ultra tracker they have up

 

[Mr J]

They stil make these, XTR has a warehouse full of them.

That's what I was told anyway by the shop that sold it to me - a place which did a lot of aeromodelling supplies. So XTR use the blue coloured from DOW? I would have thought they would use white or grey XPS for cosmetic reasons. There are a number of manufacturers of XPS - Owens Corning is the another major one - makes pink foam. Australia makes it in a green colour.

 

[Mr J]

I was told Varial uses rocker beds during glassing.

that is a good thing to do with any stringerless blank, particularly if they were thermoformed rocker with springback issues like Sharky was saying.

 

[Mr J]

Wasn't Hydroflex just proprietary glassing? I think it was very similar to Varial's Infused process where there was an adhesive applied to the blanks before vacuum-bagging.

yeah, I think hydroflex started off as Bufo surfboards from Germany. XPS foam that had the fibreglass lam punched into the foam at intervals (or something like that).

I think this demo exaggerates how strong it is - rigged with 12oz glassing

 

[oeste858]

Pretty sure I remember XTR doing a video a couple years ago showing their latest unglassed foam driven over alongside PU and EPS. I’ve barely even dinged one and never snapped one- even the stringerless- and think of them as pretty bulletproof. Over several boars, I have not had any QC issues that Muscles and some others have, but hearing those has probably kept me from ordering the last couple years and nudged me to try varial (DEP)

 

[casa_mugrienta]

That's what I was told anyway by the shop that sold it to me - a place which did a lot of aeromodelling supplies. So XTR use the blue coloured from DOW?

Yes. If I remember they use it to make stringers. This was probably 5 years back.

 

[enframed]

yeah, I think hydroflex started off as Bufo surfboards from Germany. XPS foam that had the fibreglass lam punched into the foam at intervals (or something like that).

I think this demo exaggerates how strong it is - rigged with 12oz glassing

I absolutely loved my Hydroflex board, the one that you pumped air into. One ding though and you were kind of fucked, I was anyway. Delam city after that. But before the ding, fuckinghell that thing was fire. Best board I ever had.

I have a Varial Christenson Ultra Tracker, 7'2". I like it a lot. Fairly close to the feel of Hydroflex. Would like to YOLO a 6'0 or so twin/fish from them before they sell out...

 

[nickpheous]

Bummed they are done. I was getting close to selling my varial twinsman 5'11 for a shorter Ap version. Guess I'll hang on to it as its a great board just wish it was shorter.

fwiw I've had more bad luck with varial boards than good. One seemed to get more rockered out (vbowls), a moonstone that I just didn't like, and a bom dia was good but heavy af (8lbs)