The Great Unbiased Wetsuit Review Thread

rgruber

Miki Dora status
May 30, 2004
3,627
1,365
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Just ordered a Colby 3/2 standard limestone, to test the waters (and because my Xcel 3/2 comp ass seam just blew out). Since it seems that I use a 3/2 for all of like 3 weeks a year, a nice cheap one seemed like the call.

Was contemplating their 4/3 and 5/4 offerings along with all the Yamamoto options. See how the 3/2 goes.

At this point I'm just replacing all my leaky Xcels one by one. Except the all 2 comp, which is still money.

NY'er - have been happy with needs suits through the winter..gonna buy a new one this year, probably just get another 5/4. That said Im gonna try out a new colby hooded 4/3 when they arrive and be the guinea pig.
 
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nowayout

OTF status
Nov 8, 2010
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Just ordered a Colby 3/2 standard limestone, to test the waters (and because my Xcel 3/2 comp ass seam just blew out). Since it seems that I use a 3/2 for all of like 3 weeks a year, a nice cheap one seemed like the call.

Was contemplating their 4/3 and 5/4 offerings along with all the Yamamoto options. See how the 3/2 goes.

At this point I'm just replacing all my leaky Xcels one by one. Except the all 2 comp, which is still money.
Im also tempted to try the Colby 3/2 to replace my Xcel Comp 3/2. I do like my NeedEssentials 4/3 too. Its really all about price for me.
 

ReForest

Michael Peterson status
Oct 7, 2020
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My finger is on the checkout button as we speak for a 3/2 Buell for $150.00 with tax and shipping!!!
 

jkb

Tom Curren status
Feb 22, 2005
10,165
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Central California
Just ordered a Colby 3/2 standard limestone, to test the waters (and because my Xcel 3/2 comp ass seam just blew out). Since it seems that I use a 3/2 for all of like 3 weeks a year, a nice cheap one seemed like the call.

Was contemplating their 4/3 and 5/4 offerings along with all the Yamamoto options. See how the 3/2 goes.

At this point I'm just replacing all my leaky Xcels one by one. Except the all 2 comp, which is still money.
Just keep in mind that not all Yamamoto is equal.

There are different grades of Yamamoto out there and some are cheap for a reason.
 

casa_mugrienta

Duke status
Apr 13, 2008
43,946
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Petak Island
Out of the brands you listed:

Feral - no thermal liner (they have a whole design philosophy on why this isn't needed); smoothy on the hoods (again, design philosophy behind this)

Isurus - thermal liner and smoothy panels

Crooked - thermal liner, no smoothy panels

Colby+ - no thermal liner, no smoothy panels

Whether you really need that sh!t in your suit seems to be subjective (based on either the individual or the neoprene in the suit). Crooked is a New England-based brand--you'd think if the smoothy really mattered for warmth, they'd use it. I wear Feral through NJ winters and never feel like I need more of one or the other.
Smoothskin is warmer - this has been studied and there's no question about it.

OTR wetsuit manufacturers don't like to use it because they get too many warranty complaints from people who don't take care of their stuff.

It provides wind blocking and drastically decreases permeability and evaporative cooling.
 
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jkb

Tom Curren status
Feb 22, 2005
10,165
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Central California
Are their different grades of yamy 40 or 39 for example?
The different numbers represent the differences in grades.

#38 is their basic offering
#39 is their lightest, most flexible
#40 is a compromise of durability, warmth, and flexibility

They have higher grades for diving that don't require the neoprene to be as durable.

There are also some limestone based neoprenes that are not Yamamoto. I have no idea how they perform but I don't have a lot of confidence in them.
 
Jun 4, 2019
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Smoothskin is warmer - this has been studied and there's no question about it.

OTR wetsuit manufacturers don't like to use it because they get too many warranty complaints from people who don't take care of their stuff.

It provides wind blocking and drastically decreases permeability and evaporative cooling.
Sure, and if you were looking at it in terms of only using what's warmest, you'd just make the whole suit smooth skin. Durability is a factor, though, like you mentioned. Also, with limestone neoprene not absorbing and retaining as much water as petro neoprene, the effect of evaporative cooling is already lessened. So there are other factors that need consideration versus just "what is warmest". Good thing is that there are different options out there for OTR and custom suits.
 

casa_mugrienta

Duke status
Apr 13, 2008
43,946
18,535
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Petak Island
Sure, and if you were looking at it in terms of only using what's warmest, you'd just make the whole suit smooth skin. Durability is a factor, though, like you mentioned.
So you smoothskin the chest and back. Significant difference in warmth.

Also, with limestone neoprene not absorbing and retaining as much water as petro neoprene, the effect of evaporative cooling is already lessened.
Limestone neoprene (aka Geoprene) has been around for several decades now. Bong was using it, West was using it etc starting back around 2000. It's nothing new. It breaks down, just like any other neoprene and thus retains water.

Other than my own, I see very few suits looking dry with water rolling rolling off of them after 10 minutes in the water. That means the neoprene is absorbing water and evaporative cooling has started.

So there are other factors that need consideration versus just "what is warmest".
Agree. My point is manufacturers are being dishonest when they act as if smoothie is an outdated product.

Jerseyed neoprene has to be taken care of the same as smoothskin.

Smoothskin will crack and neoprene will suck water.

The consumer is less likely to notice the latter because there's less of a visual.

It's the same as when manufacturers act like thinner neoprene provides equivalent warmth as thicker neoprene due to new wetsuit tech. Totes bullshit.

Large scale wetsuit manufacturing is a race to the bottom
 

enframed

Tom Curren status
Apr 11, 2006
11,781
6,563
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Del Boca Vista, Phase III
Buell's are on sale. Anyone have any bad (or good) experience with Buell?

I actually had great experiences with Buell's in Santa Cruz *until* the inner lining started delaminating, which unfortunately is pretty much right away. If they could have done something to take care of that issue I would have thought they were the best suits I had ever used. I had three Buell's I think. This was like 10 years ago though. Never had much issue with flushing, just the inner lining.

Was really nice the first few weeks.
Yeah, that.

Colby has arrived but have not used yet.
 
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Sharkbiscuit

Duke status
Aug 6, 2003
26,904
19,892
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Jacksonville Beach
I'm with casa_mowgli on smoothskin for anti-wind. Also IMHO smoothskin catches the sun better.

I have a 2/1 xcel jacket that has smoothskin almost all over. Wore it for years. Started to crack, so I got a Matuse that seems pretty similar with a shitload of smoothskin. 5-6 weeks depending? Still warm and comfy now.
 

oeste858

Phil Edwards status
Sep 11, 2017
7,101
17,662
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San Diego, CA
The different numbers represent the differences in grades.

#38 is their basic offering
#39 is their lightest, most flexible
#40 is a compromise of durability, warmth, and flexibility

They have higher grades for diving that don't require the neoprene to be as durable.

There are also some limestone based neoprenes that are not Yamamoto. I have no idea how they perform but I don't have a lot of confidence in them.
FWIW I think the Feral and Isurus use the #40, or at least they did 1-2 years ago when I ordered both. Very comparable suits, the Isurus 3mil in LT just fit me better that the Feral 3/2 so I kept that... and it's been one of the best consumer purchases I've made in the last 10 years. Have since added the 2 mil and hooded 3.
YMMV of course
 
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jkb

Tom Curren status
Feb 22, 2005
10,165
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FWIW I think the Feral and Isurus use the #40, or at least they did 1-2 years ago when I ordered both. Very comparable suits, the Isurus 3mil in LT just fit me better that the Feral 3/2 so I kept that... and it's been one of the best consumer purchases I've made in the last 10 years. Have since added the 2 mil and hooded 3.
YMMV of course
I know they use #40 in some parts, but I think the majority of those suits are #39 and maybe even some #38.

Having worn suits with lower and higher grade Yamamoto (Isurus, Matuse, Nineplus), I think the suits that are all #40 are notably better. Especially when you can customize features.

For example, I add smoothskin and fuzzy liner to the chest and back of the #40 suits I get. From this, I believe you can get away with 1 less mm. In SD, I would be perfectly comfortable in a 3/2 Cyber all winter. I know for a fact I couldn't do a 3/2 Isurus or Matuse all winter in SD.
 

slipped_disc

Billy Hamilton status
Jun 27, 2019
1,698
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I know they use #40 in some parts, but I think the majority of those suits are #39 and maybe even some #38.

Having worn suits with lower and higher grade Yamamoto (Isurus, Matuse, Nineplus), I think the suits that are all #40 are notably better. Especially when you can customize features.

For example, I add smoothskin and fuzzy liner to the chest and back of the #40 suits I get. From this, I believe you can get away with 1 less mm. In SD, I would be perfectly comfortable in a 3/2 Cyber all winter. I know for a fact I couldn't do a 3/2 Isurus or Matuse all winter in SD.
If their site copy is accurate, both brands are using #39 and #40 — with the #40 being in the upper body. Feral has a little more specifity on their construction:

Our 4mm3 is made with the best wetsuit material available—100% Yamamoto Neoprene: stretchier #40 in the upper body for paddling, and #39 in the body and legs for maximum warmth and lightness.