SF beatdown

Ifallalot

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Dec 17, 2008
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Yep. Same can be said about the Berkeley Hills, etc. they’ve all been gentrified for ages using geographic barriers.
Is that a bad thing? Part of the reason for working hard and making money is the ability to put your family in a nice place rather than the hood
 
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waxhead

Legend (inyourownmind)
Mar 31, 2009
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Yep. Same can be said about the Berkeley Hills, etc. they’ve all been gentrified for ages using geographic barriers.

Data source? Or is this antidotal?

No hard data, just a feeling that renters move more than homeowners, and even folks who owned and moved out of sf likely held their properties. Renters had nothing holding them here during the pandemic.

did I? I just said it doesn’t suck as much as some of the folks here let off, yourself included.
Unless you spent the 60's and 70's in SF you can't know what it was like compared to today.

As an example, I visited a musician friend who lived in SD in the 90's. He was living in a crap apt. and playing sh!t restaurant gigs. After hanging with him for a couple days, I left thinking SD was a rat hole. A few years later a HS buddy invited me on a fishing trip out of SD. His buddy owned a fat house in SD, was a member of the yacht club and we took his 40ft grady white to Ensenada to fish for a few days.

We hung out at the yacht club watching the chargers when we got back. I thought SD was so beautiful-warm blue water full of people, boats, waves, etc. A sample is just that. A lifetime of experience gives one a better view.
 

sdsrfr

Phil Edwards status
Jul 13, 2020
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Is that a bad thing? Part of the reason for working hard and making money is the ability to put your family in a nice place rather than the hood
no, I don’t necessarily think it is bad. it’s part of the area’s history and certain home values make a lot more sense when you understand this kind of history.

I only pointed out those neighborhoods as when people say city X is a shithole, I wonder if they’re aware of such areas.

In pointing out the geographic barriers I mean to imply they have been gentrified since the homes were developed, not just as a result of a wealth boom.

I will add, imo, emeryville was and is and will always be - a shithole.

Unless you spent the 60's and 70's in SF you can't know what it was like compared to today.

As an example, I visited a musician friend who lived in SD in the 90's. He was living in a crap apt. and playing sh!t restaurant gigs. After hanging with him for a couple days, I left thinking SD was a rat hole. A few years later a HS buddy invited me on a fishing trip out of SD. His buddy owned a fat house in SD, was a member of the yacht club and we took his 40ft grady white to Ensenada to fish for a few days.

We hung out at the yacht club watching the chargers when we got back. I thought SD was so beautiful-warm blue water full of people, boats, waves, etc. A sample is just that. A lifetime of experience gives one a better view.
tl;dr antidotal? lifetime of antidotal evidence is still antidotal.
 
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hammies

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Not long ago I visited some relatives back east. They were shocked that my daughter lives in SF, they couldn't believe that I was OK with that. I tried to tell them that Fox News' cameramen get all their footage from the Tenderloin and SOMA and the Mission, and the Inner Richmond is a whole other world. We finally agreed that SF is just like all big cities, there are nice areas and some no-go areas.
 

Ifallalot

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no, I don’t necessarily think it is bad. it’s part of the area’s history and certain home values make a lot more sense when you understand this kind of history.

I only pointed out those neighborhoods as when people say city X is a shithole, I wonder if they’re aware of such areas.

In pointing out the geographic barriers I mean to imply they have been gentrified since the homes were developed, not just as a result of a wealth boom.

I will add, imo, emeryville was and is and will always be - a shithole.
Where the sewer meets the sea
 
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kane

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Downtown sd is bad as well as most democratic major cities. Recently did a job in downtown sd and the sidewalk was much more crowded than that. Luckily we were across the street but that's the only time I been working 10 ft from my truck and actually locked it up.
 

casa_mugrienta

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Apr 13, 2008
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Downtown sd is bad as well as most democratic major cities. Recently did a job in downtown sd and the sidewalk was much more crowded than that. Luckily we were across the street but that's the only time I been working 10 ft from my truck and actually locked it up.
Indeed. The encampment in Midway is awful too, as well as the on-again-off-again RV park on Hancock.
 
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Woke AF

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Jul 29, 2009
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In San Francisco, thieves are now stealing catalytic converters from police cars
DAVID PESCOVITZ 7:42 AM THU SEP 15, 2022
image: ChameleonsEye/Shutterstock
In San Francisco, the brazen theft of cars' catalytic converters has reached a new low (high?). This week, the San Francisco Police Department experienced a rash of thefts of the catalytic converters from their own marked police vehicles. And it happened right outside a police headquarters. I wonder if the officers called each other to report the crime. From MIssion Local:
"On September 12, 2022 at approximately 1 p.m., a San Francisco Police Officer discovered a marked police truck parked in the area of 16th Street and De Haro Street had its catalytic converter stolen," confirmed the SFPD media relations department. "The officer inspected other police vehicles, and discovered that another marked police truck and two marked police vans also had their catalytic converters stolen." […]
"The people engaging in this activity really don't think much of the police if they think they can steal catalytic converters from the best of us," said an SFPD higher-up.
Catalytic converters loomed large in a recent unflattering article about the department. A pair of Richmond District roommates watched a man sawing a catalytic converter off a car in the wee hours and called 911. They complained to the Chronicle, however, that police declined to detain the suspect, handed him his tools and directed him to the nearest bus stop.
 

johnson7

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Sep 29, 2016
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I think if we just vote yes, on prop 27, this we all be cleared up in a few weeks?

The catalytic converter thing baffles me, how much police work does it take to figure out, where these things are going? Just a couple of weeks ago, some woman in SF had video of the thieves caught in the act by SFPD, they just let them go.
 
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PeterDj

Legend (inyourownmind)
Jul 11, 2018
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I think if we just vote yes, on prop 27, this we all be cleared up in a few weeks?

The catalytic converter thing baffles me, how much police work does it take to figure out, where these things are going? Just a couple of weeks ago, some woman in SF had video of the thieves caught in the act by SFPD, they just let them go.
Silent quitting.
 

npsp

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Indeed. The encampment in Midway is awful too, as well as the on-again-off-again RV park on Hancock.
The whole Hancock/Kurtz area is a mess. Open prostitution and drug dealing all day and night. Saw a guy getting ready to shoot up on my way to the office this morning. Cop car just drove right on by....
It doesn't help that the County Mental Health Dept. is around the corner releasing the 5150s right into the frying pan.
 
Jul 8, 2008
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Unless you spent the 60's and 70's in SF you can't know what it was like compared to today.

As an example, I visited a musician friend who lived in SD in the 90's. He was living in a crap apt. and playing sh!t restaurant gigs. After hanging with him for a couple days, I left thinking SD was a rat hole. A few years later a HS buddy invited me on a fishing trip out of SD. His buddy owned a fat house in SD, was a member of the yacht club and we took his 40ft grady white to Ensenada to fish for a few days.

We hung out at the yacht club watching the chargers when we got back. I thought SD was so beautiful-warm blue water full of people, boats, waves, etc. A sample is just that. A lifetime of experience gives one a better view.
I can't speak for what the city was like in the 70s/80s, but I've lived around the Bay Area for 27 years and I tend to side with sdsfr on this one. Sure various areas (parts of the mission, tenderloin, mid market, etc..) have gotten worse. And that is saying a lot considering what they used to be. That said those areas were always sketchy. Back in the late 90's when living in Pac Heights, I got so annoyed with Muni (needed to take a 5am bus that may or may not decide to show up) I started skating into downtown..man going through the Tenderloin at 5am..there are things you can't unsee. Walking home from bars at 1am you'd always see guys walking down a street and checking every car door no matter the neighborhood. Same thing with OB, there were always people scoping out cars. No bueno getting locked out of your car with no wallet, cellphone and in a wetsuit when it's 50 degrees outside. This isn't to excuse the current situation, it sucks mightily. I wonder how much of it is just that we are older and tolerate a lot less.

As for migrating east, sure affordability plays a part in leaving the city for the east bay, but there are factors..primarily revolving around kids. Schools (and simply being able to drive to one), being able to park at CVS to buy the emergency box of diapers, etc.
 

hammies

Duke status
Apr 8, 2006
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Downtown sd is bad as well as most democratic major cities. Recently did a job in downtown sd and the sidewalk was much more crowded than that. Luckily we were across the street but that's the only time I been working 10 ft from my truck and actually locked it up.
Downtown SD was so much worse in the '70s. Super sketchy and dangerous. Of course as teenagers we loved it!
It's so nice now in comparison.
 

waxhead

Legend (inyourownmind)
Mar 31, 2009
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Well we all have our own experience and perspective. Growing up in the city in the 60's and 70's it was a lot different than today. I'm pretty sure anyone who did the same will agree. My experience isn't limited to the past. I still work in the city, and drive around all over the city for my job. Been doing it for over 40 years. Today I went through the castro, and also the dog patch. The dog patch had scattered tents on the sidewalk. The castro not so much, just a few bums passed out and sleeping on the sidewalk. I work in the tenderloin a lot, and I'ma tell you, it's worse than it used to be. You aren't going to find tents on Lake st. or in seaclift. Why exactly is that? Bullsh*t, that's why.

There are a lot of factors that contribute to my disgust of the state of things, and it's not all the druggies and homeless. Uber, and SFMTA's war on cars has made driving around more difficult and time consuming. City worker's covid holiday continues, and I think many city workers, including the cops, have decided to do less.

Drivers speed with impunity, and bikes act like red lights don't apply to them, while the cops do nothing. As a business owner, dealing with city agencies in an attempt to simply get them to do their jobs, is an increasingly frustrating endeavor. But the fees keep going up. Have a forklift? You need to apply for a permit to store a propane tank. Application fee? $500.00 Yearly fee? Another $500.00.......have a sprinkler system? Yearly, bi annual, and five year inspections required. And you get a separate water bill just for them having water available in case your sprinkler system goes off. So far, no fire, but have paid 9k to have that water "available" I wish I had confidence that it really was. That is just a few things-there are more. City residents and businesses are getting less for their tax dollar.
My saving grace? I'm going to retire soon, and I doubt I'll spend much time in the city. It's fine, I have the memories.


I can't speak for what the city was like in the 70s/80s, but I've lived around the Bay Area for 27 years and I tend to side with sdsfr on this one. Sure various areas (parts of the mission, tenderloin, mid market, etc..) have gotten worse. And that is saying a lot considering what they used to be. That said those areas were always sketchy. Back in the late 90's when living in Pac Heights, I got so annoyed with Muni (needed to take a 5am bus that may or may not decide to show up) I started skating into downtown..man going through the Tenderloin at 5am..there are things you can't unsee. Walking home from bars at 1am you'd always see guys walking down a street and checking every car door no matter the neighborhood. Same thing with OB, there were always people scoping out cars. No bueno getting locked out of your car with no wallet, cellphone and in a wetsuit when it's 50 degrees outside. This isn't to excuse the current situation, it sucks mightily. I wonder how much of it is just that we are older and tolerate a lot less.

As for migrating east, sure affordability plays a part in leaving the city for the east bay, but there are factors..primarily revolving around kids. Schools (and simply being able to drive to one), being able to park at CVS to buy the emergency box of diapers, etc.
 
Jul 8, 2008
67
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Well we all have our own experience and perspective. Growing up in the city in the 60's and 70's it was a lot different than today. I'm pretty sure anyone who did the same will agree. My experience isn't limited to the past. I still work in the city, and drive around all over the city for my job. Been doing it for over 40 years. Today I went through the castro, and also the dog patch. The dog patch had scattered tents on the sidewalk. The castro not so much, just a few bums passed out and sleeping on the sidewalk. I work in the tenderloin a lot, and I'ma tell you, it's worse than it used to be. You aren't going to find tents on Lake st. or in seaclift. Why exactly is that? Bullsh*t, that's why.

There are a lot of factors that contribute to my disgust of the state of things, and it's not all the druggies and homeless. Uber, and SFMTA's war on cars has made driving around more difficult and time consuming. City worker's covid holiday continues, and I think many city workers, including the cops, have decided to do less.

Drivers speed with impunity, and bikes act like red lights don't apply to them, while the cops do nothing. As a business owner, dealing with city agencies in an attempt to simply get them to do their jobs, is an increasingly frustrating endeavor. But the fees keep going up. Have a forklift? You need to apply for a permit to store a propane tank. Application fee? $500.00 Yearly fee? Another $500.00.......have a sprinkler system? Yearly, bi annual, and five year inspections required. And you get a separate water bill just for them having water available in case your sprinkler system goes off. So far, no fire, but have paid 9k to have that water "available" I wish I had confidence that it really was. That is just a few things-there are more. City residents and businesses are getting less for their tax dollar.
My saving grace? I'm going to retire soon, and I doubt I'll spend much time in the city. It's fine, I have the memories.
Yeah hard to argue with any of that. And no way would I want to run a small business in the city which entailed having to actually work with the city. Which is depressing. While I'm always perplexed by people who don't live there saying the whole place is completely dystopian, Union Square and soma have definitely gone downhill, and considering those two areas are where so many tourists/conventioneers visit...I can appreciate how that point of view is developed.

Can we talk about the deterioration of sand bars at Ocean Beach? I swear already marginal conditions have gotten worse over the last 15 years out there. To the point where I'm willing to put it on par with any other crappy beach break between it and pigeon point. I blame Gavin.
 

npsp

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Downtown SD was so much worse in the '70s. Super sketchy and dangerous. Of course as teenagers we loved it!
It's so nice now in comparison.
It was sketchy into the 80s as well. The building of Horton Plaza was the catalyst for the rebirth of the gas lamp and Petco for the east village. 4th, 5th and Broadway was all strip joints and tattoo parlors catering to sailors and bikers.
Ironically, back then it was much safer to go to TJ for night out than downtown.
 
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casa_mugrienta

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I work in the tenderloin a lot, and I'ma tell you, it's worse than it used to be. You aren't going to find tents on Lake st. or in seaclift. Why exactly is that?
This.

All we hear is how the city can't do nuffin' cuz the 9th District Court says they can't.

Well then how is it that some areas of town don't seem to get the homeless riffraff?

For instance here in dowtown SD the area around the library and Park 12 used to be crawling with homeless - before Park 12 opened - but now that it's open they've mysteriously moved east and into Barrio Logan.