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Public beach access threatened!

HarryLopez

HarryLopez

Phil Edwards status
Jan 17, 2007
6,580
544
113
Neck deep
http://www.civilbeat.com/posts/2014/04/08/21734-fencing-off-doris-dukes-dangerous-shangri-la-harbor/

Not sure how to feel. Spent many days diving/surfing/nighttime shenanigans there. But, once the lawsuits start, hard not to shut it down.

I just wonder if the fence would even work? Wouldn't the bruddahs just try to jump from on top of the fence? I've seen guys bringing ladders to get more height on their jumps.. :shrug:
 
kolohe

kolohe

Michael Peterson status
Jul 29, 2006
2,290
1
0
Kaimukesia
you'd think that fence would require a variance or exemption according to Hawaii's Coastal Zone Management Laws.
 
psychophant

psychophant

Miki Dora status
Jun 25, 2011
5,607
0
0
Hawai'i
Well that sucks, and is rather predictable...
Many good times around there.


kolohe said:
you'd think that fence would require a variance or exemption according to Hawaii's Coastal Zone Management Laws.
Click to expand...
The whole thing is private property and predates statehood, how would that work anyhow?

 
mrstaggerlee

mrstaggerlee

Phil Edwards status
Jan 6, 2009
6,875
1
38
kolohe said:
you'd think that fence would require a variance or exemption according to Hawaii's Coastal Zone Management Laws.
Click to expand...
Yup, SMA zones require a whole bunch of special effort to do any construction. But if it's in the name of safety a lot can get fast tracked I would imagine. I have never been but too bad they couldn't dredge it deeper instead. Create safe fun zones instead of illegal unsafe temptation
 
psychophant

psychophant

Miki Dora status
Jun 25, 2011
5,607
0
0
Hawai'i
Mr_Stagger_Lee said:
kolohe said:
you'd think that fence would require a variance or exemption according to Hawaii's Coastal Zone Management Laws.
Click to expand...
Yup, SMA zones require a whole bunch of special effort to do any construction. But if it's in the name of safety a lot can get fast tracked I would imagine. I have never been but too bad they couldn't dredge it deeper instead. Create safe fun zones instead of illegal unsafe temptation
Click to expand...
That's drunken idiots for you.
I've been diving into that pool for decades, just don't do it at the shallow end.

:socrazy:
 
psychophant

psychophant

Miki Dora status
Jun 25, 2011
5,607
0
0
Hawai'i
Mr_Stagger_Lee said:
kolohe said:
you'd think that fence would require a variance or exemption according to Hawaii's Coastal Zone Management Laws.
Click to expand...
Yup, SMA zones require a whole bunch of special effort to do any construction. But if it's in the name of safety a lot can get fast tracked I would imagine. I have never been but too bad they couldn't dredge it deeper instead. Create safe fun zones instead of illegal unsafe temptation
Click to expand...

So are all the old seawalls "coast"?
The swimming area is mostly enclosed by the jetty, and the fence wouldn't go up on the outer most wall of the basin.
 
mrstaggerlee

mrstaggerlee

Phil Edwards status
Jan 6, 2009
6,875
1
38
psykophant said:
So are all the old seawalls "coast"?
The swimming area is mostly enclosed by the jetty, and the fence wouldn't go up on the outer most wall of the basin.
Click to expand...
They are, so you cant do anything with them without an act of God. SMA is 40ft from hide tide line.
 
psychophant

psychophant

Miki Dora status
Jun 25, 2011
5,607
0
0
Hawai'i
Mr_Stagger_Lee said:
psykophant said:
So are all the old seawalls "coast"?
The swimming area is mostly enclosed by the jetty, and the fence wouldn't go up on the outer most wall of the basin.
Click to expand...
They are, so you cant do anything with them without an act of God. SMA is 40ft from hide tide line.
Click to expand...
Interesting.

Do you know how they determine that, that is are canals and harbors subject to that ruling?
It was originally built to house her yacht, and is a de facto harbor i would assume.

So Kahala/BP and Lanikai are coast 40 ft above HHW?
I see all sorts of construction within 40 ft it seems.

 
HarryLopez

HarryLopez

Phil Edwards status
Jan 17, 2007
6,580
544
113
Neck deep
psykophant said:
Mr_Stagger_Lee said:
kolohe said:
you'd think that fence would require a variance or exemption according to Hawaii's Coastal Zone Management Laws.
Click to expand...
Yup, SMA zones require a whole bunch of special effort to do any construction. But if it's in the name of safety a lot can get fast tracked I would imagine. I have never been but too bad they couldn't dredge it deeper instead. Create safe fun zones instead of illegal unsafe temptation
Click to expand...
That's drunken idiots for you.
I've been diving into that pool for decades, just don't do it at the shallow end.

:socrazy:
Click to expand...
I paddle/kick/swimfin the 6' soft top around the jetty with my 5 year old daughter on the front sometimes. Mostly hung out near the stairs away from the party. This last weekend, there were guys loading the coolers at the right of way, bottles of tequila, green bottles. About 40-50 people there total. The sand at the W end (8 ft jump) was knee deep when the surge would recede. I saw a 2-3 year old get bumped/pushed into the water, just missing the rocks on the fall. Mom and dad jumping into water to save ... it was a small kine circus.

At the same time there were a bunch of groms going into the concrete tube where the swell runs in and out having a blast!

 
psychophant

psychophant

Miki Dora status
Jun 25, 2011
5,607
0
0
Hawai'i
HarryLopez said:
I paddle/kick/swimfin the 6' soft top around the jetty with my 5 year old daughter on the front sometimes. Mostly hung out near the stairs away from the party. This last weekend, there were guys loading the coolers at the right of way, bottles of tequila, green bottles. About 40-50 people there total. The sand at the W end (8 ft jump) was knee deep when the surge would recede. I saw a 2-3 year old get bumped/pushed into the water, just missing the rocks on the fall. Mom and dad jumping into water to save ... it was a small kine circus.

At the same time there were a bunch of groms going into the concrete tube where the swell runs in and out having a blast!
Click to expand...
Yeah, all the broken glass kinda sucks too.

I swim through that pipe all the time.
:roflmao:

I like to jump off the jetty on the ocean side and time the surge to push me into the "pool".
It doesn't always work out properly.
I got stuck in there once, with the back and forth surges on a high tide with a bit of swell.
I think i changed direction 4 times before i could get out.

:roflmao: :loser: :drowning:
 
S

slopokecr

Billy Hamilton status
Sep 28, 2007
1,647
19
38
Subject Header is somewhat alarmist. Access is not threatened at all. DD foundation is forced to do something to mitigate danger due to lawsuits. Fence is intended to keep people from jumping in from the edge of the harbor. Will it work? I don't think so--it will just give the donkeys a higher place to jump from.

The broken glass, bottle caps, graffiti and litter in the area tells the story. DD has to demonstrate that they tried to something. I think they should get real cops to monitor the donkey show.
 
psychophant

psychophant

Miki Dora status
Jun 25, 2011
5,607
0
0
Hawai'i
slopokecr said:
Subject Header is somewhat alarmist. Access is not threatened at all. DD foundation is forced to do something to mitigate danger due to lawsuits. Fence is intended to keep people from jumping in from the edge of the harbor. Will it work? I don't think so--it will just give the donkeys a higher place to jump from.

The broken glass, bottle caps, graffiti and litter in the area tells the story. DD has to demonstrate that they tried to something. I think they should get real cops to monitor the donkey show.
Click to expand...
I did some work for the estate, all of the security there were HPD at the time.
Really cool grounds.
Place is around 5 acres iirc.
 
HarryLopez

HarryLopez

Phil Edwards status
Jan 17, 2007
6,580
544
113
Neck deep
slopokecr said:
Subject Header is somewhat alarmist. Access is not threatened at all. DD foundation is forced to do something to mitigate danger due to lawsuits. Fence is intended to keep people from jumping in from the edge of the harbor. Will it work? I don't think so--it will just give the donkeys a higher place to jump from.

The broken glass, bottle caps, graffiti and litter in the area tells the story. DD has to demonstrate that they tried to something. I think they should get real cops to monitor the donkey show.
Click to expand...
Otherwise no one reads my posts. :roflmao: And, is that how you troll? :shrug:

When I was there last weekend, there is a security guard that sits out there. She must've called HPD, cause 2 officers were walking out there while 2 waited at the right of way. I was in the water, so I didn't see what happened even though the donkeys were pounding da greenies! Cops looked like they gave warnings and left.
 
mrstaggerlee

mrstaggerlee

Phil Edwards status
Jan 6, 2009
6,875
1
38
psykophant said:
Interesting.

Do you know how they determine that, that is are canals and harbors subject to that ruling?
It was originally built to house her yacht, and is a de facto harbor i would assume.

So Kahala/BP and Lanikai are coast 40 ft above HHW?
I see all sorts of construction within 40 ft it seems.
Click to expand...
I don't know how they break up the specific areas (especially a harbor area with commerce) I think it is such that things can get done but it is WAY more difficult and expensive to tackle. Re: Lanikai, the DPP has an room dedicated to the eroding beach so that is a special case already. I know that some places can get permits to "save" structures that are in that setback zone. They may be grandfathered in and therefore protected.

ref: http://planning.hawaii.gov/czm/special-management-area-permits/
 
S

SUPKing

Oct 23, 2009
103
0
16
water
kolohe said:
you'd think that fence would require a variance or exemption according to Hawaii's Coastal Zone Management Laws.
Click to expand...
read the article, it's all in place.

will be glad to see the neighborhood free of the riff-raff.

 
C

craigj532

Kelly Slater status
Nov 9, 2002
9,286
325
83
SUP_King said:
kolohe said:
you'd think that fence would require a variance or exemption according to Hawaii's Coastal Zone Management Laws.
Click to expand...
read the article, it's all in place.

will be glad to see the neighborhood free of the riff-raff.
Click to expand...
And that's the real issue with all of these places - the surrounding landowners want to limit access so that they don't have to deal with the "riff-raff" who want to use their neighborhoods. "Liability" is nothing more than a convenient scapegoat.
 
psychophant

psychophant

Miki Dora status
Jun 25, 2011
5,607
0
0
Hawai'i
craigj532 said:
SUP_King said:
kolohe said:
you'd think that fence would require a variance or exemption according to Hawaii's Coastal Zone Management Laws.
Click to expand...
read the article, it's all in place.

will be glad to see the neighborhood free of the riff-raff.
Click to expand...

And that's the real issue with all of these places - the surrounding landowners want to limit access so that they don't have to deal with the "riff-raff" who want to use their neighborhoods. "Liability" is nothing more than a convenient scapegoat.
Click to expand...


Which has it's own particular irony since while alive, Doris, the silveriest of silver spoons, seemed fine with the "riff-raff" using that space.
I think she even provided the trash cans at one point.

So now, someone else is calling the shots in the name of the estate.

But yeah i hear you on the liability, i don't see it going too well for anyone taking on the Duke estate's legal team.
Old money comes to mind.

:socrazy:
 
HarryLopez

HarryLopez

Phil Edwards status
Jan 17, 2007
6,580
544
113
Neck deep
Good idea or not, da Fence is going up! Started on Monday. Da bruddahs will have to raft in their green bottles now. :roflmao: :toilet:
 
M

Muscles

Michael Peterson status
Jun 1, 2013
2,599
3,607
113
California/Hawaii
The place was a lot of fun when I was in highschool. We used to go after school a couple of times a week. It started turning into a poop show though. People drunk all the time and starting fights with other people. I stopped going eventually to avoid the crowd and people.
 
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