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panda shiitake HP
- Thread starter tedshred5
- Start date
my dyslexia confuses this model name with shitcake.
anyone else?
anyone else?
I am absolutely serious. What I think I am looking at is a concave with rounded chines following the nose outline. Excuse this 2D diagram, but my drawing skills aren't good enough to do a more illustrative 3D pic. So as water hits the outer chine and travels over the ridge (which it will do in a straight paddle in situation) there will be a region of suction. So an elaborate design which creates a ridge of suction. In the angled takeoff situation on the waves side then the situation will be reversed - lift as water flows into the corner of the concave, then suction on the chine as water has to bend upwards. I expect not as simple as that, but that is the principle of turning flow. Bend mass of water down, force in the opposite direction = lift. Bend water up - force in the opposite direction = suction.
is anyone really feeling bottom contour design when you're paddling? If so, you're way more in tune to your bottom contours than I.
I have 3 boards that every time I paddle them feel like they are so good to paddle. Like really, really good paddlers.
Both the 5'8" mini-Simmons and the 5'10" fish have a pronounced tri-plane bottom which means concave up to the nose and the 7'4" DVS carbon fish has a single concave from the nose that goes in a V with concave set in the V.
Coincidence?
Edit: the much higher surface area of the boards I've mentioned would naturally amplify the effects of the design when in comparison to the subtlety of a hpsb one would think?
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definitely not in mid/rear end when paddling into a wave. Theoretically it would be producing some drag while paddling and before it is fully up on the plane going across the wave, but I am prepared to live with that because I want that rail to rail push back from the concaves in the rear end that just about every HPSB has. Do I want rail to rail push back under my hands while popping to my feet? ha no! I just want to stand up for the bottom turn. Having said that I think the difference between a moderately V'd entry section in a longboard Vs a concaved nose longboard would be very noticeable. The concaved nose board would be slamming on the chop.
I also think you would notice V in the entry section of a shortboar, particularly when paddling in on chop - it would be a bit smoother and cut through the surface. However I really don't think its an issue on a normal HP shortboar - they are small and narrow enough to handle a bit of bumping around in the chop, so I would rather do without the drag from the V. As for concave (or any significant concave) in the nose of shortboar I just think there is no point, it won't help with anything. Better rockers are the key to getting in.
I think the HS psycheledic germ is an example of a shortboar with V'd nose entry - anyone ridden one and think it paddles into a choppy wave more smoothly? @Aruka ?
I actually think the Psych Germ is pretty bad at paddling and catching waves. Feels like a total plow. I've had some Stretch boards with mellow V entry that paddle and catch waves well, as do most Stretch boards I've tried. I think it's more of a rocker thing than any other factor.
I’ve got one of Muzza‘s cathedral hull designs atm and have had a couple in the past. Can’t remember the others’ paddling performance tbh but the one I have now is a very efficient and early wave catcher for its dims.
Mr J, I know what you’re driving at with the cross ways flow doing the Coanda thing on the soft round bits but it’s the very front of the board and the flow will for the most part be coming head on until the board starts to plane and the surfer engages the arse end of the board. If anything I see the chines recycling a bit of the energy that is wasted when the nose is acting at displacement speeds.
Oh, very important afterthought edit…. I have pigdogged this thing a fair bit. I’m still getting a feel for the board (it’s Muzza’s version of the twinzer) due to lack of waves, but holy fk I can really milk total Hail Mary closeouts with my foot right up in the naip of the rocker. It’s a really good backhand tube board…even though I haven’t totally loved it FS in hollow stuff.
Mr J, I know what you’re driving at with the cross ways flow doing the Coanda thing on the soft round bits but it’s the very front of the board and the flow will for the most part be coming head on until the board starts to plane and the surfer engages the arse end of the board. If anything I see the chines recycling a bit of the energy that is wasted when the nose is acting at displacement speeds.
Oh, very important afterthought edit…. I have pigdogged this thing a fair bit. I’m still getting a feel for the board (it’s Muzza’s version of the twinzer) due to lack of waves, but holy fk I can really milk total Hail Mary closeouts with my foot right up in the naip of the rocker. It’s a really good backhand tube board…even though I haven’t totally loved it FS in hollow stuff.
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@Clamsmasher because the chined concave follows the nose outline, head on flow means diagonally crossing in the entry section and the diagram I drew would apply. Sounds like a really good boar for your tastes, but I am convinced it works well despite the cathedral hull not because of it.
I am not deliberately picking on Murray Bourton and am aware of his rich history with Pipedreams surfboards, its just that the design got brought up by Feralseppo. He is far from the only shaper to put overly elaborate contours into a board to provide some sort of mystical appeal - remember the "vent system" claiming beronoulli's principle
? I think former world champ Barton Lynch was pushing that design at one point, probably was a good board for its time, but despite the vent not because of it - bernoulli's principle is of course nonsense in an open shallow channel. Normally applies to a closed pipe widening, although apparently some deep valleys in the Swiss Alps can produce a venturi effect when the wind blows, but a quarter of an inch or so channel ain't the Swiss Alps.
Do you think Rob Machado's "board eat board" is a good design? I don't!
Then there is HS's Psychedelic germ. I just took a look at the website and it has less detail than before where he used to have diagrams showing the contour distribution. But sounds (and looks from the photo) V double into single, with a sidecut tail. Craig Anderson used to like that board, perhaps it goes really well - although Aruka reckons it plows water There is a reason why 99% of pros use much simpler designs.
I am not deliberately picking on Murray Bourton and am aware of his rich history with Pipedreams surfboards, its just that the design got brought up by Feralseppo. He is far from the only shaper to put overly elaborate contours into a board to provide some sort of mystical appeal - remember the "vent system" claiming beronoulli's principle
? I think former world champ Barton Lynch was pushing that design at one point, probably was a good board for its time, but despite the vent not because of it - bernoulli's principle is of course nonsense in an open shallow channel. Normally applies to a closed pipe widening, although apparently some deep valleys in the Swiss Alps can produce a venturi effect when the wind blows, but a quarter of an inch or so channel ain't the Swiss Alps.Do you think Rob Machado's "board eat board" is a good design? I don't!
Then there is HS's Psychedelic germ. I just took a look at the website and it has less detail than before where he used to have diagrams showing the contour distribution. But sounds (and looks from the photo) V double into single, with a sidecut tail. Craig Anderson used to like that board, perhaps it goes really well - although Aruka reckons it plows water
There is a reason why 99% of pros use much simpler designs.thanks for your informative response. I thought you had owned/tried one, or if it wasn't my memory then a reasonable bet that you would have, so I decided to summon you
yes, I think rocker is the main factor for getting into waves. My 2022 build is a manually transposed 2021 shape3d into Aku. Exact same numbers on the outline. Exact same rocker numbers in the tail tip and 1' up. A minute 1/16 adjustment to the 1' entry rocker where I agonised over whether to leaving the nuimber exactly as is or lower it, so settled on something that should not make a significant difference. Then purely for aesthetics took some of the nose end flip out. However the Aku program seems to behave a bit differently and the rocker feels quite different - and I am fairly sure it paddles into waves better, but better rocker definitely - feels the right amount overall. There has been some regression in other performance though - I think too much cant in the rear fins. Maybe 2023 will be the one.
That's what we're all thinking Mr. J.
Maybe 2023 will be the year I find the board that finally puts me on the CT!
If I don't beat you first so you miss the cut
Do you think you're feeling the paddling benefits of the hull/chine portions of the tri hull maybe?
my anecdotal experience is that my wave catching became much easier when i started putting a little belly or v right in the entry, compared to concave from the nose back.
awesome to hear that the board is going great for you. I am not disputing whether it is a good board or not. However this is what I am thinking would be the situation in an angled takeoff.
So the other thing about my 2022 build that is preventing me from surfing pro level is that there is too much tuck in the rail, caused by unfamiliarity with the Aku program. I spent a lot of time getting the rail height and apex right, but didn't pay attention to the large amount of default tuck the program gave me
Its already got the better rocker and I have fixed up the tuck in Aku. So if I buy the FCS 6 degree boxes instead of the 9 degrees and don't touch anything else then I reckon the 2023 build is going to be the magic boar
Fvck 2023. You should just make another board in 2022.So the other thing about my 2022 build that is preventing me from surfing pro level is that there is too much tuck in the rail, caused by unfamiliarity with the Aku program. I spent a lot of time getting the rail height and apex right, but didn't pay attention to the large amount of default tuck the program gave me
Its already got the better rocker and I have fixed up the tuck in Aku. So if I buy the FCS 6 degree boxes instead of the 9 degrees and don't touch anything else then I reckon the 2023 build is going to be the magic boar