Energy Blind

[TangTonic]

We are all energy blind. (and to a further extent, water blind in places like CA)

I have been thinking a lot about this lately. When are we going to wake up from this delusion.

Please watch this and then post your thoughts. I think a great discussion could be had here on the forum.

 

[Subway]

So we have ONE thread about Putin and nukes, that somehow maintained civility and hilariously dark, vaguely intellectual interchange, and with minimal squabbling and turd flinging. And now you think we can do it AGAIN on THIS topic? In the same week?

you, sir, are either very optimistic, or delightfully delusional (like myself- that’s not a dig)

I will watch the video once I’m on office time and report back

 

[crustBrother]

We can do it. Again. Better.

 

[Subway]

That’s the spirit!!!

 

[crustBrother]

my take...

the great (and hopefully gradual) simplification *is* coming and here's why:

industrialization is the great double-edged sword. it produces the things we need and want in abundance. but it also drives increasingly extreme specialization from us as it evolves and as we participate in it. increased specialization is usually accompanied by two unfortunate side effects:

I. increased disconnection from people
II. increased disconnection from nature

these two forms of disconnectedness are making people sick, anxious, depressed.

as the disconnectedness increases, the associated pathology gets worse. it becomes deadly. eventually the problem gets big enough that it forces adaptation.

the adaptation is to move towards a more balanced (more primal) lifestyle where people exists as members of tight knit communities that live closer to nature such that they are less dependent on industrial systems. balance is the key. industry and technology are neither good, nor evil - they are simply tools that must be used wisely with respect to the fundamental nature of human beings.

for a good model of what the fix probably looks like, see blue zone life (especially in terms of food production and community)

PS - the video makes one major mistake in assuming that depletion of fossil fuels will force the great simplification. unfortunately (or fortunately depending on how you look at it) that is not the case. we can (and probably should) solve for the energy problem with nuclear reactors (so that we can prevent billions of people from starving to death). but if all we do is solve the energy problem, we will fail to address the modality problems that are driving humanity towards an increasingly nihilistic dystopia.

PPS - i see i've totally ignored the problem of physical pollution as a byproduct of industry. clearly a comprehensive analysis needs to include that. but for now, i think it suffices to say that a great, gradual simplification solves (or at least greatly improves) that problem

 

[TangTonic]

Damn crustBrother, couldn't have said it any better myself.

As for nuclear reactors. How do you transport the uranium to the reactor...fossil fuel. How do you mine the uranium...fossil fuel. How much uranium is really available...not enough to power the world. The safety of these reactors relies on a complex system of operations and maintenance. What happens when global unrest takes over and these skilled employees are not manning their stations? You can't just shut these things down and walk away.

This link describes the mining process. It requires a lot of energy and care must be taken to prevent the environment from being harmed in the process. Then you still have to get it from the mining site to the reactors.

Uranium: How is it Mined?

geoinfo.nmt.edu

Geothermal energy is probably the best option but we are many years away from that being a reality.

And the point of all this isn't just finding other sources of energy. Because if you do that, you haven't solved the problem of consumption. Think of all the automobiles, refrigerators, A/C's, etc. No one wants to give those things up. And the third world nations are rapidly trying to get these things too.

Subway, yeah I know could be a sh!tstorm but I do think we all need to be seriously thinking about this.

As surfers we like to travel and we like our fossil fuel made surfboards. At the same time, we are more connected to the natural environment than most people. We also understand that energy is the real source of it all no matter what you're talking about.

There is no denying that peak oil has gone and past. So much of our world relies on this precious resource that took millions of years to be created. What happens when it's more expansive to extract from the earth than what it's worth?

No president, CEO, economist wants to admit that the continued growth model is flawed. The resources we need for growth are not infinite. It's important to realize that no one is to blame including our leaders. We are stuck in this superorganism of a flawed model and its either we start making real change now, or face a world of calamity which is coming sooner than you think.

 

[crustBrother]

As for nuclear reactors ... <snip> ... the point of all this isn't just finding other sources of energy. Because if you do that, you haven't solved the problem of consumption.

i agree 100%

the only reason i mention nuclear power is that i think we need an energy source to keep the current system up and running while we gradually and greatly simplify how we live

i don't think the blue zone lifestyle scales up to support 8 billion people, so if we shift too quickly, i think lots of people starve and freeze

 

[erik1938]

Awesome topic.
Totally agree that the "American way of life" is un-sustainable. We were led astray at some point after WWII when companies that valued people and their products transitioned to being run and operated by MBA's with zero engineering or scientific knowledge that only valued the bottom line. Along that line of thinking came mass consumerism and throw away products.
Unfortunately, in order for the world to come to a sustainable equilibrium our current way of life will have to change. For some this is going to be more painful then for others.
As far as energy requirements, I too believe that during the transition Nuclear fission will help. New types of reactor designs that are more safe then the traditional water cooled reactors in addition to small scale reactors.
Although when nuclear fusion is developed to a point where it becomes self sustaining then this will be a major factor in humans advancement. (hopefully)
There are so many issues that come up when discussing a topic like this. Such as how humans use new discoveries and when greedy A-Hole 100% capitalist who only care about the money become involved society pays the price. What you are talking about is kind of like a utopia and right now in our stage of human evolution I don't think we are ready for it. Just look at Putin, Iran, Afghanistan, Trump and even our own US government and it becomes overwhelming to think that humans will survive in a sustainable balanced way of life.

 

[crustBrother]

 

[One-Off]

I didn’t watch the video because I’m in a public place but I can tell you this from my three years living in Sierra Leone- people in developing countries want what we have. They want live like we live. That will chafe if WE tell them they need to live simply or primitively.

 

[LarryTate]

If we could just figure out how to harness the enormous power of all the ignorance in this forum this planet would have all the energy we'd need 50 lifetimes over.

 

[Chocki]

There will come a day, when we think back to another time... when the world was powered by the black fuel... and the desert sprouted great cities of pipe and steel. Gone now... swept away. For reasons long forgotten, two mighty warrior tribes went to war, and touched off a blaze which engulfed them all. Without fuel they were nothing. They'd built a house of straw. The thundering machines sputtered and stopped. Their leaders talked and talked and talked. But nothing could stem the avalanche. Their world crumbled. The cities exploded. A whirlwind of looting, a firestorm of fear. Men began to feed on men. On the roads it was a white line nightmare. Only those mobile enough to scavenge, brutal enough to pillage would survive. The gangs took over the highways, ready to wage war for a tank of juice. And in this maelstrom of decay, ordinary men were battered and smashed

 

[Mr Pecker]

There will come a day, when we think back to another time... when the world was powered by the black fuel... and the desert sprouted great cities of pipe and steel. Gone now... swept away. For reasons long forgotten, two mighty warrior tribes went to war, and touched off a blaze which engulfed them all. Without fuel they were nothing. They'd built a house of straw. The thundering machines sputtered and stopped. Their leaders talked and talked and talked. But nothing could stem the avalanche. Their world crumbled. The cities exploded. A whirlwind of looting, a firestorm of fear. Men began to feed on men. On the roads it was a white line nightmare. Only those mobile enough to scavenge, brutal enough to pillage would survive. The gangs took over the highways, ready to wage war for a tank of juice. And in this maelstrom of decay, ordinary men were battered and smashed

Dear Doctor of Dankness,


What an excellent observation and poignant reference:

 

[Boneroni]

IMO, we are pretty much fcked. I really don’t like thinking about what the world will likely be like in 50 years. I feel really terrible for my daughter.

 

[TeamScam]

This is a wonderful time to be alive. Your daughter is living large in so many ways.

 

[Senor Sopa]

Pyramid Power



Teotihuacan vs computer chip

 

[Chocki]

Dear Doctor of Dankness,


What an excellent observation and poignant reference:

I used to be convinced that’s how it was going to go down.

But once everyone switches to driving EVs there’s nothing to worry about anymore

 

[freeride76]

AI will likely make it all redundant once they enslave humanity

 

[SurfFuerteventura]

AI will likely make it all redundant once they enslave humanity

Andy Irons is going to enslave humanity?



Cool story Brah.

 

[TangTonic]

The majority of the responses to this thread proves the point. We are energy blind in the Western world. I'm guilty of it too.

I guess if you never had children, don't care about the biosphere and all the life it supports, its easy to have blinders on and maintain a selfish mentality.

For those of us who do have children and do care about the incredible loss of biodiversity the planet is experiencing, this should really strike a chord.