Dimples and Texture on Surfboards

everysurfer

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Sep 9, 2013
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There has been some discussion about whether dimples have an effect on a surfboard. So I posed the question to mybrother who has his Masters from MIT in Mechanical Engineering. He posed the idea to his former professor. Here is the reply from a MIT professor,

"Dimples on a surf board is a non starter in my opinion.

For a golf ball, dimples reduce the drag by a massive 50%. This is because the drag coefficient is reduced by 50%. This is because for a smooth sphere, the separation point for the streamlines is just aft of the midpoint of the ball and as such, there is a massive low pressure aft side. Dimples on a golf ball move the separation point significantly backwards which causes the surface area exposed to the low pressure air to be dramatically reduced. This separation of the dividing streamline is associated with flow past bluff bodies.

A surfboard in not a bluff body. It is a streamlines body and as such, there is not a dividing streamline and thus not a low pressure side. For a streamlined shape like a surf board, the drag coefficient is very low to start with and there is very little form drag, which is what happens on bluff bodies. For a surfboard, 90% of the very little drag there is is due to surface friction. So to reduce drag, you reduce fouling and surface area.

You could play with changing the surface drag by using very small dimples or a shark skin shape, but you are really only going to see only a very small incremental change at the Reynolds number a surfboard operates.

See any undergraduates fluid mechanics text for discussion of bluff vs streamlined shapes and impact on drag. For dimpled vs smooth spheres, see http://www.efluids.com/efluids/bicycle/bicycle_pages/sportsballs.jsp

I am sure you could make some hay from a marketing perspective because the general public has been sensitized to the importance of dimples on golf balls, but from a purely technical perspective, I don't the incremental advantage would be worth the effort".
 

afoaf

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Jun 25, 2008
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could one construe this as the dimples-don't-matter as it relates to the coil finish?
 

everysurfer

Phil Edwards status
Sep 9, 2013
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afoaf said:
could one construe this as the dimples-don't-matter as it relates to the coil finish?
One could construe this to mean that a smooth bottom Coils would be faster than a Kick bottom Coil, all other things being equal.

Smooth and fair gloss is fastest, then maybe shark skin, but you wouldn't be able to tell they are so close.

Slower is sand finish, or wax on the bottom.

Slowest is any distortion/ dimpling.
 

JDJ

Miki Dora status
Mar 1, 2014
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everysurfr said:
One could construe this to mean that a smooth bottom Coils would be faster than a Kick bottom Coil, all other things being equal.
Based on personal and very unscientific experience, Coil with Kick is not slower in any sense than Coil without Kick.
 

everysurfer

Phil Edwards status
Sep 9, 2013
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J_D_J said:
everysurfr said:
One could construe this to mean that a smooth bottom Coils would be faster than a Kick bottom Coil, all other things being equal.
Based on personal and very unscientific experience, Coil with Kick is not slower in any sense than Coil without Kick.
Professors with their doctorates at MIT would disagree.
 

littlewave

Michael Peterson status
Nov 15, 2009
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everysurfr said:
J_D_J said:
everysurfr said:
One could construe this to mean that a smooth bottom Coils would be faster than a Kick bottom Coil, all other things being equal.
Based on personal and very unscientific experience, Coil with Kick is not slower in any sense than Coil without Kick.
Professors with their doctorates at MIT would disagree.
Um, I don't get that at all from the quote you posted...

everysurfr said:
"I am sure you could make some hay from a marketing perspective because the general public has been sensitized to the importance of dimples on golf balls, but from a purely technical perspective, I don't the incremental advantage would be worth the effort."
That looks to me like the dimpled would have a positive effect, however incremental.

In this case, the dimples on Kick are actually less effort, as no hot/filler coat is required to get a smooth surface...
 

Ifallalot

Duke status
Dec 17, 2008
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Does he realize that surfboards (besides displacement hulls) have a flat or concave bottom? His theory based on a streamline body makes me think that he's basing the theory on something with a convex bottom like a boat.

Just spitballin here. I"m dumb
 

kellsmith

Miki Dora status
Apr 18, 2011
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everysurfr said:
afoaf said:
could one construe this as the dimples-don't-matter as it relates to the coil finish?
One could construe this to mean that a smooth bottom Coils would be faster than a Kick bottom Coil, all other things being equal.

Smooth and fair gloss is fastest, then maybe shark skin, but you wouldn't be able to tell they are so close.

Slower is sand finish, or wax on the bottom.

Slowest is any distortion/ dimpling.
i have a good board that im really familiar with. for the first few months of our relationship it had a polished gloss bottom. after a little while i finesanded the bottom longitudinally. the first few sessions on that freshly sanded bottom made the board feel slightly different in my head. not any more top end speed, but slightly more slippery and free and a little extra "skate" right after the pop up and in slower / pivoty sections. possibly just mental. but interesting none the less. believe the fine longitudinal lines make a difference over the swirlies left by a disc sander. nice original post.
 

JDJ

Miki Dora status
Mar 1, 2014
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everysurfr said:
Professors with their doctorates at MIT would disagree.
Like I said, it's just one man's opinion based on riding Mike's boards:

[video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=560mV-q5DyI[/video]
 

SPP

OTF status
May 21, 2009
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It's not even the MIT guy's opinion, I'm not sure how you'd get dimples are slower from the quote. He said it's probably not worth the effort, which is completely different.
 

JDJ

Miki Dora status
Mar 1, 2014
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I'm not sure the dimples are the goal with Kick; they could be more like an interesting by-product of the glassing.
 

everysurfer

Phil Edwards status
Sep 9, 2013
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littlewave said:
In this case, the dimples on Kick are actually less effort, as no hot/filler coat is required to get a smooth surface...
Coil saves on labor/ materials to do it the way they do. No argument there. The point I was making with this thread is that any texture makes the board go slower.
 

everysurfer

Phil Edwards status
Sep 9, 2013
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SPP said:
It's not even the MIT guy's opinion, I'm not sure how you'd get dimples are slower from the quote. He said it's probably not worth the effort, which is completely different.
From the Professor's reply, "So to reduce drag, you reduce fouling and surface area."

Smooth surfaces have the least surface area, drag reduction equals more speed.
 

r32

Administrator
Staff member
Apr 1, 2005
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Morey Bodyboards tried it way back in the day with the Mach SCS and Mach 8tx

 

SPP

OTF status
May 21, 2009
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everysurfr said:
SPP said:
It's not even the MIT guy's opinion, I'm not sure how you'd get dimples are slower from the quote. He said it's probably not worth the effort, which is completely different.
From the Professor's reply, "So to reduce drag, you reduce fouling and surface area."

Smooth surfaces have the least surface area, drag reduction equals more speed.
And then he says "You could play with changing the surface drag by using very small dimples or a shark skin shape, but you are really only going to see only a very small incremental change at the Reynolds number a surfboard operates."

Bottom line it's not going to have much of an effect on performance, which is fine because MD has specifically said that's not the purpose of the kick dimples.
 

000

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Feb 20, 2003
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