How does this make you feel?

[Sharkbiscuit]

Because our economy is so based on consumer spending, a lot depends on whose taxes you cut and whose you raise.

If you cut taxes for the middle and lower class - people who spend everything they make on food, shelter. clothing, transportation, and so on, any additional money they get goes right back into the economy, because they spend it all.

Rich people don't spend all their money though, so cutting taxes on them doesn't feed the economy in the same way. They "invest". Maybe they'll buy another 1000 shares of AAPL, but they are not really investing in the company, since the only money AAPL ever got from those 1000 shares was at the IPO. They're really only investing in the person who sold them the 1000 shares.

The opposite is true when you raise taxes - it cuts straight into how much money poor and middle class can spend, so the economy takes a hit. But rich people have no trouble paying their taxes and it doesn't hurt them at all.

A decent assessment that the tax cuts the Republicans have championed for 40+ years blow goats. I concur.

But personally, I see some good in Rick Scott's plan to raise taxes on the lower class. IMHO it's going to involve making EVERYONE feel some pain before we have an honest conversation about cutting spending. The GOP threatens any federal subsidizing of school lunches for poor kids every chance they get. Basically nothing. The Democrats shave off a tiny bit of future growth and while it is a cut relative to baseline, it's not balancing the budget, because it's basically nothing.

The budget isn't like 5-10% out of whack. It's like 25-33% out of whack. A big chunk. I don't think we can get there solely soaking the rich and IMHO that approach won't yield an honest assessment of where we need to cut spending.

 

[Duffy LaCoronilla]

Right, so taxes were cut in 2001 and revenue declined for a couple years, in direct contrast to your assertion that revenue goes up even if there's tax cuts. Thanks for agreeing, bonus for using the same source I did!

What else happened in 2001?

 

[ElOgro]

What else happened in 2001?

Excellent uncrowded surf.

 

[Sharkbiscuit]

What else happened in 2001?

The real world crashed some passenger airliners into your absolutist proclamation?

Your blanket assertion is wrong when faced with reality. Receipts always go up is different than receipts go up unless it rains, the terrorists are mean, Goldman Sachs makes some CDOs out of nuclear waste, Volcker had to raise rates, my dog ate it, what had happened was, and whatever happened in 1970/1971 to cause that year over year decline.

 

[Sharkbiscuit]

Excellent uncrowded surf.

1998-2003 was the Dark Days. 2 hours from St. Augustine and no car. I used to worry I lobbied for Vilano too hard on mid+ tide and anything East/South when holding out gas money. Now I think I didn't lobby hard enough.

When September 11th happened there was a swell forecast for that weekend. Also a massive game vs Tennessee in the Swamp. I was still trying to put effort into the "college experience" instead of fucking off and going surfing. Everyone except the SEC and UF said the game would be cancelled, but by the time my classes were done and it was called off everyone with a car was gone. Their parents were cool but my mom probably would have skinned and gelded me if she knew I skipped class during the semester.

 

[Autoprax]

My friend saw it on TV and when surfing.

He said it was pumping.

I had just got divorced.

That was my own personal 9/11

 

[mundus]

My friend saw it on TV and when surfing.

He said it was pumping.

I had just got divorced.

That was my own personal 9/11

Pumping Hurricane swell in NY/NJ that day.

 

[sussle]

The fiscal conservative is about as real as Unicorns, look at debt/ deficits by Administrations, R's run it up, D's bring it down.

R's are not serious people, are incapable of governance, and get more ridiculous every year. Case in point:

House GOP leaders had hoped that inserting abortion policy into every major piece of their government spending plans would help win over conservative members and placate influential outside groups agitating for more aggressive action on the issue. But so far, the move has helped to seal the demise of what is usually among the easiest appropriations bills for Congress to pass, drawing fierce and rare pushback from more than a dozen moderate Republicans.

.

A House GOP attempt to advance abortion measure backfires in funding fight

House GOP leaders wanted more leverage in the spending wars. So far, they have less.

www.politico.com

 

[VonMeister]

A decent assessment that the tax cuts the Republicans have championed for 40+ years blow goats. I concur.

But personally, I see some good in Rick Scott's plan to raise taxes on the lower class. IMHO it's going to involve making EVERYONE feel some pain before we have an honest conversation about cutting spending. The GOP threatens any federal subsidizing of school lunches for poor kids every chance they get. Basically nothing. The Democrats shave off a tiny bit of future growth and while it is a cut relative to baseline, it's not balancing the budget, because it's basically nothing.

The budget isn't like 5-10% out of whack. It's like 25-33% out of whack. A big chunk. I don't think we can get there solely soaking the rich and IMHO that approach won't yield an honest assessment of where we need to cut spending.

You've touched the third rail with this one. The left thinks the poor should contribute nothing and the color of your skin dictates whether or not you should be held to anything that resembles an educational standard.

The problem today begins and ends with a president who doesn't understand how taxes work or what they even are...I mean all those years grifting in the Senate and he couldn't stop for a second and figure out what taxes are. Once him and the Dems are throughly confused by the monster they created they just blankly stare and chant something about rich people need to pay their fair share....but can't tell you what that means. Even afoaf can google it before fucking it all up...but at least he tries.

 

[VonMeister]

80% of the country getting taxed a bit more under their noses means definitive "tax brackets" don't have to officially change (it's a small amount, but that is a lot of money when the whole middle class takes it on). Doesn't mean it's right, we are paying more unil 2027 and again multi multi millionaires/billionaires less, you okay with that?

But let's distract with trannies, russia/ukraine, covid, etc etc etc...fcking bullshit

50 years of tax cuts for the uber rich is why we are in this situation...not left or right - who the hell started that??? REAGAN - trickle down doesn't work, it's been proven, yet here we are.

The wealthy pay taxes using the same tax code as everyone else. You know who doesn't pay their fair sale? The poor. They pay zero.

 

[Sharkbiscuit]

The wealthy pay taxes using the same tax code as everyone else. You know who doesn't pay their fair sale? The poor. They pay zero.

The wealthy are paying the long term cap gains rate. "Everyone else" is paying the Earned Income rate.

The poor are paying the same rate for Social Security/Medicare as everyone else, up to $120k or whatever the cutoff is. If that cap was removed it'd be a big deal.

 

[afoaf]

Saudi and Russia announced they were going to reduce output

apparently this upset Doug so much that he is blathering about it in other threads

the fact that Doug can't differentiate between total annual output and current production levels means he's either incredibly fkn stupid or he knows that he was wrong and is just going to act like an insolent little bitch

I can't decide which possibility is more hilarious

 

[grapedrink]

The wealthy are paying the long term cap gains rate. "Everyone else" is paying the Earned Income rate.

The uber wealthy are. Then there are shleps like us who make a good to excellent W2 paycheck who pay a bundle in taxes and have minimal options for deductions. I can see why that ilk gets frustrated and quietly vote R because at that point the tax tables make a significant difference. Especially if you live in a COL area and other trappings of adult family life.

 

[VonMeister]

Saudi and Russia announced they were going to reduce output

apparently this upset Doug so much that he is blathering about it in other threads

the fact that Doug can't differentiate between total annual output and current production levels means he's either incredibly fkn stupid or he knows that he was wrong and is just going to act like an insolent little bitch

I can't decide which possibility is more hilarious

OPEC annual output hasn't gone down since 2019. This is a fact that won't change no matter how many times you self flagellate over it.

 

[VonMeister]

The wealthy are paying the long term cap gains rate. "Everyone else" is paying the Earned Income rate.

The poor are paying the same rate for Social Security/Medicare as everyone else, up to $120k or whatever the cutoff is. If that cap was removed it'd be a big deal.

Everyone is paying the same long term capital gains rate....Wealthy is a political term as part of a broader culture war. No one gets a break on capital gains. The poor in this country are the only people getting a break from income tax rates.

My point was more about dipshits on the left using a persons asset worth as some barometer of how much they should be paying in tax. We don't have a wealth tax in this country....we have an income tax. When a barely functioning retard says "the rich need to pay their fair share" they are either embarrassingly stupid, or calling for communism.

 

[Sharkbiscuit]

Everyone is paying the same long term capital gains rate....Wealthy is a political term as part of a broader culture war. No one gets a break on capital gains. The poor in this country are the only people getting a break from income tax rates.

My point was more about dipshits on the left using a persons asset worth as some barometer of how much they should be paying in tax. We don't have a wealth tax in this country....we have an income tax. When a barely functioning retard says "the rich need to pay their fair share" they are either embarrassingly stupid, or calling for communism.

long-term capital gains IS a tax break. It's comically easy to make money investing compared to "Earned Income". There should be no long term capital gains tax. There should be no pass through loophole. Everything should fall under the Earned Income brackets.

We're a trillion short and the rich people are the only ones with any money. Mitt Romney and I pay similar effective rates, and the notion that he's ever worked a day in his life is comical compared to the average bus driver.

This wasn't a problem until Reagan and Arthur Laffer.

 

[afoaf]

OPEC annual output hasn't gone down since 2019. This is a fact that won't change no matter how many times you self flagellate over it.

try as you might with your stupid red herring, OPEC announced that they are cutting output through December

 

[VonMeister]

try as you might with your stupid red herring, OPEC announced that they are cutting output through December

OK afoaf.....OPEC hasn't cut output since 2019.

You said OPEC cutting production was causing high gas prices.

 

[Random Guy]

No, it doesn’t

Hurt feelings aren’t “damage”

Just like Covid, the damage that was done wasn’t firsthand, but rather from the reaction

Many have bounced back financially
im not aware of anyone coming back from the dead

 

[afoaf]

OK afoaf.....OPEC hasn't cut output since 2019.

You said OPEC cutting production was causing high gas prices.

I like how you can't wrap your dumb racist brain around cumulative annual output and monthly production output

OPEC announced production cuts in April, a second round of cuts in June, and an extension of those reductions through December a couple weeks ago....oil prices have been on the rise ever since

Opec: What is it and what is happening to oil prices?

Saudi Arabia is cutting output by one million barrels a day, and Opec+ is keeping past cuts in place

www.bbc.com

prices at the pump have moved with these announcements