The Middleman

[One-Off]

Starting a build thread. I' calling this one the Middleman not because it's a mid length but because of where I'll surf it.

It will replace this trusty old 7-4.





This board catches waves great and is fast, but could be looser. Not much tail rocker. It will lose the paddle battle with longboards. On the big days this swell it was a little hectic getting into waves and then wasn't loose. Flat bottom. I had this sensation on the big waves at speed that it didn't want to go over onto the rail.

Middleman will have more rocker and some vee in the tail. It will be 7-6 but I am not designing for the paddle battle. Now that I can surf whenever, I've found I can mostly avoid the crowd. I could go smaller but at this wave there is a limit. I had 6-10 that felt too small (unless the waves were bigger). Not enough glide.

More details coming soon, gotta run now...

 

[One-Off]

Template- I wanted to make it 20-7/8" wide but the curve called for 21." Pretty much following Eric Arakawa's outline.
Wide point 4" above center. 13-1/2" nose, 14-1/8" tail.




Playing with the idea of a round pin tail. I had to look for a good template. Red X's mark approximately where my back foot would be in trimming position and the front and back of twinzer cluster. I wanted to put max template curve where my back foot goes. The tails pulls in a little more than the 7-4 so more curve in tail. This one will have a 5" swallow speed vs 6" on the 7-4.






I have an idea but what does the venerable erBB braintrust think the difference between swallow and round pin would be?

 

[jkb]

It looks like it should be a rounded pin to me.

 

[One-Off]

It looks like it should be a rounded pin to me.

Why? What would the performance difference be in your opinion?

 

[jkb]

Less area giving you more control at faster speeds and/or bigger surf.

 

[kpd73]

It looks like it should be a rounded pin to me.

I'm currently debating this in my head for a re-make of a 7'2 Russ Short B5 round pin I have. Magic board that definitely has bumps and bruises, and while Malcolm is still shaping would Love to get another- slightly tweaked and one of those tweaks may be mini swallow.
Interesting to see how your design shakes out here- I do admire your stuff - and that outline really does look better as a round pin.
There is something so wild about a high speed gliding carve that a round pin gives...
Just my .02

 

[Aruka]

I've not ridden many swallow tail guns or midlengths so maybe I'm missing out. I love a good round pin though. I think the way the tip of the pin (ideally) stays in contact with the water as the board rolls from edge to edge is very predictable which helps inspire confidence for me in bigger surf.

This quote, "I had this sensation on the big waves at speed that it didn't want to go over onto the rail. " makes me think a rounded pin is at least worth considering for the reasons @jkb gave.

Increased tail rocker, less tail width and/or a thinner foil are other possible options for helping the board roll over onto rail easier at speed.

 

[rowjimmytour]

I would say round pin its like having a ole reliable friend but I did own a swallow semi gun really loved and my current step up is swallow tail

 

[One-Off]

I've not ridden many swallow tail guns or midlengths so maybe I'm missing out. I love a good round pin though. I think the way the tip of the pin (ideally) stays in contact with the water as the board rolls from edge to edge is very predictable which helps inspire confidence for me in bigger surf.

This quote, "I had this sensation on the big waves at speed that it didn't want to go over onto the rail. " makes me think a rounded pin is at least worth considering for the reasons @jkb gave.

Increased tail rocker, less tail width and/or a thinner foil are other possible options for helping the board roll over onto rail easier at speed.

Thanks for all the input everybody. My take is that the swallow has a longer rail line and would be more drivey.

The changes I made this time around include pretty much everything on your list- more tail rocker (+1/8"), vee (rocker at swallow tips would be 2-1/2, 1/4" more than the trusty 7-4) and the rails are thinner all around. It also has slightly more nose rocker. It measures the same, but I have 1/8" single concave in the new one, so on the rail line it is more. The old one was pure flat bottom GG style.

I'd like to get a looser board without sacraficing too much speed (who wouldn't?). Like you said, the round pin has less area and should go over on rail easier (looser?), but with all the loose features I'm adding I hope it doesn't lack drive....but then that's where fins come into play...

I'm also designing this board not so much with all these DOH days we've just had (because that is not the norm), but for the head to head and half days which are pretty common.

Pics to come. Daughter's on the computer for onlne classes and I can't load photos on this one...

 

[One-Off]

Comparison of the two boards I rode this past swell. On the three really big days I surfed two were on the green 8-3 which felt better than the 7-4. I'm seriously considering chopping an inch off the tail though. It's a twinzer (you can see the fcsI plug shadows...I cut them out and replaced them with FCS II). I think I went with 8-1/2" Jobson placement but scaled them up for the length... and put them at almost 10".




7-4 compared to new shape. The last 1/2" on the tail will be cut. I leave it long for the eventual dings to the tips while maneuvering the shape in my small shaping room. The 7-4 had wide point aft of center ( I wanted to surf off the tail). The new one has it 4" above center. It doesn't look like it because it carries the width aft whereas the area reduces pretty quickly in front. More curve in the tail. The new one has 1-1/4" wider nose.

 

[need 4 speed]

I'm having the same internal debate, leaning towards baby swallow for a remake of the current 6-4

 

[rowjimmytour]

Love my 6'3" x19" x2.5" 2x4 step

 

[need 4 speed]

@rowjimmytour
What's the tip to tip ? (and depth of swallow)

 

[rowjimmytour]

@rowjimmytour
What's the tip to tip ? (and depth of swallow)

Sing to double out back and no idea depth of swallow never measured but would consider it baby swallow very mellow.

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[need 4 speed]

@rowjimmytour
I'd guess around 6ish for the tip to tip and maybe 1-1 1/2' on the depth of swallow ( kind of standard shortboard)

 

[Senor Sopa]

Template- I wanted to make it 20-7/8" wide but the curve called for 21." Pretty much following Eric Arakawa's outline.
Wide point 4" above center. 13-1/2" nose, 14-1/8" tail.

View attachment 146221


Playing with the idea of a round pin tail. I had to look for a good template. Red X's mark approximately where my back foot would be in trimming position and the front and back of twinzer cluster. I wanted to put max template curve where my back foot goes. The tails pulls in a little more than the 7-4 so more curve in tail. This one will have a 5" swallow speed vs 6" on the 7-4.

View attachment 146222

View attachment 146226


I have an idea but what does the venerable erBB braintrust think the difference between swallow and round pin would be?

View attachment 146223View attachment 146224

I think maybe a tad wider than 14.25 would be mo betta, keep the swallow

 

[20W-50 and blood]

I'm having the same internal debate, leaning towards baby swallow for a remake of the current 6-4

baby swallow tails are god. i said it.

 

[Mr J]

This board catches waves great and is fast, but could be looser. Not much tail rocker. It will lose the paddle battle with longboards. On the big days this swell it was a little hectic getting into waves and then wasn't loose. Flat bottom. I had this sensation on the big waves at speed that it didn't want to go over onto the rail.

Middleman will have more rocker and some vee in the tail. It will be 7-6 but I am not designing for the paddle battle. Now that I can surf whenever, I've found I can mostly avoid the crowd. I could go smaller but at this wave there is a limit. I had 6-10 that felt too small (unless the waves were bigger). Not enough glide.
...

Reading between the lines it sounds like it is intended for a wave frequented by and suited to longboards in standard conditions, on the other hand in big conditions this wave needs a gun. So this board has to do both.

My choice would be to go wider in the tail to get more glide and rounded pin to allow the extra width to be manageable in big conditions. Too late for this one, because you have cut the outline, but you can always make another!

Greg Griffin completely replaced V with extra tail rocker, because he believed that the same effect as V could be achieved with extra rocker (I presume including getting the board over on rail), but more efficiently.

 

[One-Off]

Thanks Mr J. Always appreciate your input, but like you said, it's shaped so I can't widen the tail. I don't generally like wide tail, maybe because I have small feet (size 8-1/2- 9)? I'm also fairly light weight (155lbs) and like to turn hard. I feel I don't have the heft to put a wide tail on its rail. As far as lack of glide...I'll just have to go at low tide when it's small.

I've done several things on this to make it looser and get on rail easier- more curve in tail, more tail rocker, more vee, thinner rail- so I've decided to go with the baby swallow for that extra 2-3 inches of rail to hopefully maintain some drive.


I was finish sanding with 120 grit and saw these lines that almost looked like a CNC cut. Discovered it was shitty Home Depot sand paper... and I bought a big pack. I guess I can still use it for glassing.







Single under front foot, transition between feet, vee under back foot-







Oh, and micro mini beak for extra paddling magic!

 

[Aruka]

Cute!