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Rusty custom
- Thread starter fadethetrade
- Start date
Totally agree that could be a factor, even subconsciously: regardless of dims, how foiled the rails are when you feel them up has a big effect on how HP you think the board will surf. My R. quad fish has flat deck and full rails- took me a while to get that out of my head and how "chunky" the rails felt, and just appreciate how fun the board is to surf. It's a blast.
GG, you're holding out. You know the real answer...
Get some different fins.
I've never ridden a Gremlin, but Fling will smoke it.Gotta get past my Gremlin first
Yeah but Puddle Jumper Slim is a better groveler than both of them
most of the #'s are thinner on the custom
front 6" slightly thicker like it has a small beak
Get out of here.Yeah but Puddle Jumper Slim is a better groveler than both of them
Only if it's filmed, and only if it's held in the PNW with downed trees floating in the lineup and 75 mph onshore winds.
What about the glassing schedule?
How about the blank density?
Can you still request to have the leash plug placed off center? Which side of placement will make your board spin counter-clockise when pulled by the leash?
Inquiring minds want to k ow.
The best thing about custom boards that didn’t come out the way you like...you will surf them harder because you don’t give a fark...then you love them..
You are delusional. Fling over everything. Have fun not groveling on your Gremlin and have fun going straight on your PJ.
Just order 3 like Alex did - one of them may work ! ;-)
Welcome to surfing, where shaping (even CAD) is a bit of art along with some basic mechanics.
By way of reference, out of the 3 best magic boards I've had over the years, two were used (just a few times) and one was custom ordered. While touching, holding, feeling are all great, you can't really determine the performance until you ride it (duh).
That's because once you're beyond basic form, you're dealing with flex, density, spring etc resulting from the blank, glass, weather (humidity, etc, even is semi climate controlled facilities) when each was created, stringer, etc. It's all super mysto and impossible to replicate. If something comes together, it "just does".
Paradoxically, the 3 all time worst boards I've had all involve attempted copies of the aforementioned magic boards. One was shaped by the **same exact shaper** of one of the magic boards! Another was by a semi-famous Malibu guru whose hipster boards sell for mucho dinero. And lastly, one was shaped by a well known local HB shaper.
It's just a crap shoot. That's why if you're not a pro churning through boards/week, you need to hold on and preserve a good board if you're ever lucky enough to get one. Whenever I've gotten a dog, I know it instantly, and just flip it back to a shop (sometimes driving directly after getting out of the water) to re-sell, take my loss and forget about it.
The reason this thread caught my eye is that I also have a (pending) custom order with Rusty.
Did you have a chance to exchange any emails with him? If so, did you read one of his blog entries that is included as a link in his email signature file?
I think many people know this, but unless you're a pro, minute differences in boards (unless for some reason they're completely off) aren't going to effect you/your surfing that much. That's why shapers come across as remote - they've seen/heard the whining a million times, knowing 99.9% of the time it's the surfer, not the board. I think that's the essence of what R is trying to say here:
---
www.rustysurfboards.com
That beer mug illustrates how negligible of a volume amount can completely consume a rider's perspective.
Nearly 20 years ago when I was first introduced to CAD software for surfboards, I was in a new wonderworld of design control. There is a lot of back and forth these days…handshape vs. computer. The fact is, as a shaper, once the demand for your boards reaches around a thousand boards a year, you need to consider options or your customers will be faced with a long wait.
The options are “ghost shaper” or computer, or a combination of both. One of the features of the software is that it calculates volume. Almost 20 years ago, Luciano Leao, the developer of SurfCad, told me that I must pay attention to the volume. It took me a little while but I soon understood what he meant.
Move forward into the last 4 or 5 years, most customers have become obsessed with volume. Virtually all programs calculate in liters, fractions of liters, or in some cases, beers. Most surfboard websites have charts or apps that help your to calculate what your volume should be. The good ones take into consideration, not only your weight, but your ability level, age, and the type of surf you want your board designed for.
At the end of the day, these charts/apps really only help you to understand what kind of volume you might want on your shortboard. You have to make a decision on thickness or volume. You cannot have both. Sometimes recommended dimension tables are spot on. Other times they are not. Designs evolve over time. Not dramatically, but they change.
"If You Are Getting A Custom, Trust Your Shaper’s Judgment."
THE EQUATION
The equation for performance shortboards is fairly simple.
Take your weight in pounds example; 160
Convert to kilos; divide by 2.2 equals 72.73
Multiply by .35
Equals 25.45 liters
The multiple comes from thousands of shortboards for average to advanced surfers.
As the ability level decreases, the multiple increases.
With age, the multiple increases.
TYPICAL SHORTBOARD
5’11 19.5 2.38 30 L
make it a half inch longer (yes I get asked to do that)
5’11.5 19.5 2.38 30.2
make it an inch longer
6’0 19.5 2.38 30.4
make it .5 wider
5’11 20.0 2.38 30.8
make it .125 thicker 1/8”
5’11 19.5 2.5 31.5
thickness affects volume the most
FUNBOARD
7’0 21.5 2.85 47.2
make it an inch longer
7’1 21.5 2.85 47.7
make it .5 wider
7’0 22 2.85 48.3
make it .125 1/8” thicker
7’0 21.5 2.98 49.3
My point? The thing that affects the volume the most is thickness.
The charts and tables are guidelines, not gospel. The shaper has to find a balance between the two. Unless you are a pro you shouldn’t let a variance of less than a liter bother you. You won’t feel it. You need to choose between volume and thickness; which number do you want your shaper to focus on.
Once again, TRUST YOUR SHAPER. There are other things to also consider such as width, rocker, bottom contours, and thickness flow, fin position, fin templates, fin construction. And weight.
The weight of your board: Is it 6 lbs? or 6.6 lbs? That’s 10%. That’s significant.
7lbs that’s 16%.
Not to mention the type of cloth and resin. That affects the flex and springback.
EPS? Roughly 10% I generally program EPS boards thinner to compensate.
.5 liters on 27…that’s 1.8 % on 160 lbs 2.88 lbs
1 liter on 27 = 3.7 % on 160 that’s 5.9lbs
Does the computer program calculate the volume on the cut blank? Or the finished blank? It's the cut blank. When the blank gets finished it looses .3? .4? .5 liters?
"Trust Your Shaper's Judgment."
Did you have a chance to exchange any emails with him? If so, did you read one of his blog entries that is included as a link in his email signature file?
I think many people know this, but unless you're a pro, minute differences in boards (unless for some reason they're completely off) aren't going to effect you/your surfing that much. That's why shapers come across as remote - they've seen/heard the whining a million times, knowing 99.9% of the time it's the surfer, not the board. I think that's the essence of what R is trying to say here:
---
Rusty's New Take on Volume
That beer mug illustrates how negligible of a volume amount can completely consume a rider's perspective. . Nearly 20 years ago when I was first introduced to CAD software for surfboards, I was in a new wonderworld of design control. There is a lot of back and forth these days…handshape vs...
www.rustysurfboards.com
That beer mug illustrates how negligible of a volume amount can completely consume a rider's perspective.
Nearly 20 years ago when I was first introduced to CAD software for surfboards, I was in a new wonderworld of design control. There is a lot of back and forth these days…handshape vs. computer. The fact is, as a shaper, once the demand for your boards reaches around a thousand boards a year, you need to consider options or your customers will be faced with a long wait.
The options are “ghost shaper” or computer, or a combination of both. One of the features of the software is that it calculates volume. Almost 20 years ago, Luciano Leao, the developer of SurfCad, told me that I must pay attention to the volume. It took me a little while but I soon understood what he meant.
Move forward into the last 4 or 5 years, most customers have become obsessed with volume. Virtually all programs calculate in liters, fractions of liters, or in some cases, beers. Most surfboard websites have charts or apps that help your to calculate what your volume should be. The good ones take into consideration, not only your weight, but your ability level, age, and the type of surf you want your board designed for.
At the end of the day, these charts/apps really only help you to understand what kind of volume you might want on your shortboard. You have to make a decision on thickness or volume. You cannot have both. Sometimes recommended dimension tables are spot on. Other times they are not. Designs evolve over time. Not dramatically, but they change.
"If You Are Getting A Custom, Trust Your Shaper’s Judgment."
THE EQUATION
The equation for performance shortboards is fairly simple.
Take your weight in pounds example; 160
Convert to kilos; divide by 2.2 equals 72.73
Multiply by .35
Equals 25.45 liters
The multiple comes from thousands of shortboards for average to advanced surfers.
As the ability level decreases, the multiple increases.
With age, the multiple increases.
TYPICAL SHORTBOARD
5’11 19.5 2.38 30 L
make it a half inch longer (yes I get asked to do that)
5’11.5 19.5 2.38 30.2
make it an inch longer
6’0 19.5 2.38 30.4
make it .5 wider
5’11 20.0 2.38 30.8
make it .125 thicker 1/8”
5’11 19.5 2.5 31.5
thickness affects volume the most
FUNBOARD
7’0 21.5 2.85 47.2
make it an inch longer
7’1 21.5 2.85 47.7
make it .5 wider
7’0 22 2.85 48.3
make it .125 1/8” thicker
7’0 21.5 2.98 49.3
My point? The thing that affects the volume the most is thickness.
The charts and tables are guidelines, not gospel. The shaper has to find a balance between the two. Unless you are a pro you shouldn’t let a variance of less than a liter bother you. You won’t feel it. You need to choose between volume and thickness; which number do you want your shaper to focus on.
Once again, TRUST YOUR SHAPER. There are other things to also consider such as width, rocker, bottom contours, and thickness flow, fin position, fin templates, fin construction. And weight.
The weight of your board: Is it 6 lbs? or 6.6 lbs? That’s 10%. That’s significant.
7lbs that’s 16%.
Not to mention the type of cloth and resin. That affects the flex and springback.
EPS? Roughly 10% I generally program EPS boards thinner to compensate.
.5 liters on 27…that’s 1.8 % on 160 lbs 2.88 lbs
1 liter on 27 = 3.7 % on 160 that’s 5.9lbs
Does the computer program calculate the volume on the cut blank? Or the finished blank? It's the cut blank. When the blank gets finished it looses .3? .4? .5 liters?
"Trust Your Shaper's Judgment."
I think most people here are ignoring the above.
When questions weren't getting answered a simple phonecall to the customer probably could've made this go a whole lot different.
he outline of the two boards is a bit different from the photos you have shown us.
For example:
Eric wide point: is at 35 5/8" from the tail,
stock wide point is at 34 7/8" from the tail (3/4 of a difference)
this will have the same effect on the thickness and volume of the board, more volume will be shifted up in the chest area on the custom.
Also
Eric custom has 5/16" less 'overall' rocker.
with the way most shapers are creating a new model from the smallest of change in board design, I'd say its a different board.