The Never-Trumpers Are Never Coming Back

GromsDad

Duke status
Jan 21, 2014
54,827
16,694
113
West of the Atlantic. East of the ICW.
[size:16pt]The Never-Trumpers Are Never Coming Back[/size]

By Patrick J. Buchanan

With never-Trump conservatives bailing on the GOP and crying out for the Party of Pelosi to save us, some painful truths need to be restated.

The Republican Party of Bush I and II, of Bob Dole and John McCain, is history. It’s not coming back. Unlike the Bourbons after the Revolution and the Terror, after Napoleon and the Empire, no restoration is in the cards.

It is over. The GOP’s policies of recent decades — the New World Order of George H.W. Bush, the crusades for democracy of Bush II — failed, and are seen as having failed. With Trump’s capture of the party they were repudiated.

There will be no turning back.

What were the historic blunders?

It was not supporting tax cuts, deregulation, conservative judges and justices, or funding a defense second to none. Donald Trump has delivered on these as well as any president since Reagan.

The failures that killed the Bush party, and that represented departures from Reaganite traditionalism and conservatism, are:

First, the hubristic drive, despite the warnings of statesmen like George Kennan, to exploit our Cold War victory and pursue a policy of permanent containment of a Russia that had lost a third of its territory and half its people.

We moved NATO into Eastern Europe and the Baltic, onto her doorstep. We abrogated the ABM treaty Nixon had negotiated and moved defensive missiles into Poland. John McCain pushed to bring Ukraine and Georgia into NATO, and even to send U.S. forces to face off against Russian troops.

Thus we got a second Cold War that need never have begun and that our allies seem content to let us fight alone.

Europe today is not afraid of Vladimir Putin reaching the Rhine. Europe is afraid of Africa and the Middle East reaching the Danube.

Let the Americans, who relish playing empire, pay for NATO.

Second, in a reflexive response to 9/11, we invaded Afghanistan and Iraq, dumped over the regime in Libya, armed rebels to overthrow Bashar Assad in Syria, and backed Saudi intervention in a Yemeni civil war, creating a humanitarian crisis in that poorest of Arab countries that is exceeded in horrors only by the Syrian civil war.

Since Y2K, hundreds of thousands in the Middle East have perished, the ancient Christian community has all but ceased to exist, and the refugees now number in the millions. What are the gains for democracy from these wars, all backed enthusiastically by the Republican establishment?

Why are the people responsible for these wars still being listened to, rather than confessing their sins at second-thoughts conferences?

The GOP elite also played a crucial role in throwing open U.S. markets to China and ceding transnational corporations full freedom to move factories and jobs there and ship their Chinese-made goods back here, free of charge.

Result: In three decades, the U.S. has run up $12 trillion in merchandise trade deficits — $4 trillion with China — and Beijing’s revenue from the USA has more than covered China’s defense budget for most of those years.

Beijing swept past Italy, France, Britain, Germany and Japan to become the premier manufacturing power on earth and a geo-strategic rival. Now, from East Africa to Sri Lanka in the Indian Ocean, and from the South and East China Sea to Taiwan, Beijing’s expansionist ambitions have become clear.

And where are the Republicans responsible for building up this potentially malevolent power that thieves our technology? Talking of building a Reagan-like Navy to contain the mammoth they nourished.

Since the Cold War, America’s elites have been exhibiting symptoms of that congenital blindness associated since Rome with declining and falling empires.

While GOP grass roots have begged for measures to control our bleeding southern border, they were regularly denounced as nativists by party elites, many of whom are now backing Trump’s wall.

For decades, America’s elites failed to see that the transnational moment of the post-Cold War era was passing and an era of rising nationalism and tribalism was at hand.

“We live in a time,” said U2’s Bono this week, “when institutions as vital to human progress as the United Nations are under attack.”

The institutions Bono referenced — the U.N., EU, NATO — all trace their roots to the 1940s and 1950s, a time that bears little resemblance to the era we have entered, an era marked by a spreading and desperate desire of peoples everywhere to preserve who and what they are.

No, Trump didn’t start the fire.

The world was ablaze with tribalism and was raising up authoritarians to realize nationalist ends — Xi Jinping, Putin, Narendra Modi in India, Erdogan in Turkey, Gen. el-Sissi in Egypt — before he came down that escalator.

And so the elites who were in charge when the fire broke out, and who failed to respond and refused even to recognize it, and who now denounce Trump for how he is coping with it, are unlikely to be called upon again to lead this republic.
 

Autoprax

Duke status
Jan 24, 2011
68,735
23,372
113
62
Vagina Point
I think he's simplifying things and ignoring relevant details that go counter to the narrative he wants to create.

Kinda like what you two clowns do on a daily basis here.

Duh!
 

Bohter

Michael Peterson status
Mar 7, 2006
2,665
232
63
Everyone should watch this one and wonder WTF....
[video:youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RC1Mepk_Sw[/video]

If you have not figured out that "terrorists with box cutters" did not do 9/11 by now....well...get busy...the truth is out there. Lots to learn....just requires some time & intestinal fortitude. It's not all apple pie and Chevrolet boys and girls....sad really.
 

Duffy LaCoronilla

Duke status
Apr 27, 2016
39,178
28,786
113
The whole “blood for oil” thing always kind of irritated me.

Of the very very very very few legitimate reasons to go to war, the free flow of oil at market prices is near the top of the list.

We started a war for oil?

Good.
 

GromsDad

Duke status
Jan 21, 2014
54,827
16,694
113
West of the Atlantic. East of the ICW.
Bohter said:
Everyone should watch this one and wonder WTF....
[video:youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RC1Mepk_Sw[/video]

If you have not figured out that "terrorists with box cutters" did not do 9/11 by now....well...get busy...the truth is out there. Lots to learn....just requires some time & intestinal fortitude. It's not all apple pie and Chevrolet boys and girls....sad really.
Don't know if I agree with your post but that video is pretty spot on. My views are similar to Pat Buchanan in terms of foreign policy. I'm an isolationist. We should mind our own business abroad and focus on things here at home.
If we don't fvck with others they probably won't fvck with us. If they do then we fight that war 100% to annihilate the enemy. Its part of why I strongly support oil and gas exploration here at home. Fvck the Middle East. Its a shithole full of even shittier people.

For all you petroleum hating enviro weenies please stop and consider this story: https://www.benzinga.com/analyst-ratings/analyst-color/17/04/9281777/war-torn-afghanistan-sits-stubbornly-atop-vast-reserves-
 

Bohter

Michael Peterson status
Mar 7, 2006
2,665
232
63
Duffy said:
The whole “blood for oil” thing always kind of irritated me.

Of the very very very very few legitimate reasons to go to war, the free flow of oil at market prices is near the top of the list.

We started a war for oil?

Good.
And got lied to in the process = not good.

GromsDad....spend some time on the "KS gets all political and sh!t" thread....last posted 9/11/16. Elevator problem = proof.

That...and you need to stop focusing on the left / right, red / blue pill government paradigm. Our government along with most of the other country's governments are not the end-game of the world's chess game....there's more to the picture than meets the eye. If you think Trump is the most powerful dude in the world....you got some learning to do son.

Nuf said...
 

Ifallalot

Duke status
Dec 17, 2008
88,990
18,040
113
Autoprax said:
I think he's simplifying things and ignoring relevant details that go counter to the narrative he wants to create.

Kinda like what you two clowns do on a daily basis here.

Duh!
Please illustrate these relevant details
 

Ifallalot

Duke status
Dec 17, 2008
88,990
18,040
113
GromsDad said:
Bohter said:
Everyone should watch this one and wonder WTF....
[video:youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RC1Mepk_Sw[/video]

If you have not figured out that "terrorists with box cutters" did not do 9/11 by now....well...get busy...the truth is out there. Lots to learn....just requires some time & intestinal fortitude. It's not all apple pie and Chevrolet boys and girls....sad really.
Don't know if I agree with your post but that video is pretty spot on. My views are similar to Pat Buchanan in terms of foreign policy. I'm an isolationist. We should mind our own business abroad and focus on things here at home.
If we don't fvck with others they probably won't fvck with us. If they do then we fight that war 100% to annihilate the enemy. Its part of why I strongly support oil and gas exploration here at home. Fvck the Middle East. Its a shithole full of even shittier people.

For all you petroleum hating enviro weenies please stop and consider this story: https://www.benzinga.com/analyst-ratings/analyst-color/17/04/9281777/war-torn-afghanistan-sits-stubbornly-atop-vast-reserves-
:cheers:
 

Autoprax

Duke status
Jan 24, 2011
68,735
23,372
113
62
Vagina Point
ifallalot said:
Autoprax said:
I think he's simplifying things and ignoring relevant details that go counter to the narrative he wants to create.

Kinda like what you two clowns do on a daily basis here.

Duh!
Please illustrate these relevant details
For one thing, he ignores the rise of the evangelicals in the GOP party in the last 15 years.

 

Ifallalot

Duke status
Dec 17, 2008
88,990
18,040
113
Autoprax said:
ifallalot said:
Autoprax said:
I think he's simplifying things and ignoring relevant details that go counter to the narrative he wants to create.

Kinda like what you two clowns do on a daily basis here.

Duh!
Please illustrate these relevant details
For one thing, he ignores the rise of the evangelicals in the GOP party in the last 15 years.
The evangelical movement started during the 80s and reached its peak during the GWB years. If anything its fading right now
 

afoaf

Duke status
Jun 25, 2008
49,654
23,266
113
ifallalot said:
Please illustrate these relevant details
What were the historic blunders?

It was not supporting tax cuts, deregulation, conservative judges and justices, or funding a defense second to none.
every GOP president since Reagan has implemented tax cuts, pushed for deregulation (more below),
defense funding....also, are Alito, Thomas, and Roberts not conservative?

The failures that killed the Bush party, and that represented departures from Reaganite traditionalism and conservatism, are:

First, the hubristic drive, despite the warnings of statesmen like George Kennan, to exploit our Cold War victory and pursue a policy of permanent containment of a Russia that had lost a third of its territory and half its people.
I think Russia's actions in the intervening years warrant this. Crimea, Ukraine, Syria.

We moved NATO into Eastern Europe and the Baltic, onto her doorstep. We abrogated the ABM treaty Nixon had negotiated and moved defensive missiles into Poland. John McCain pushed to bring Ukraine and Georgia into NATO, and even to send U.S. forces to face off against Russian troops.
we kicked the poor, innocent bear...? Russia was always going to require containment.

Thus we got a second Cold War that need never have begun and that our allies seem content to let us fight alone.

Europe today is not afraid of Vladimir Putin reaching the Rhine. Europe is afraid of Africa and the Middle East reaching the Danube.
I think they are legitimately concerned by both threats, eastern and southern.

Let the Americans, who relish playing empire, pay for NATO.
I agree that they should be chipping in more, but NATO members have also allowed
us permanent operating positions from their countries which has a large strategic value
to us, defense budget arguments aside.

Why are the people responsible for these wars still being listened to, rather than confessing their sins at second-thoughts conferences?
I agree with this point and the content I snipped out just previous to it. this is not new. the GOP has never
cut their hawks loose....Kissinger, North, Rumsfeld, etc. more importantly, the pro-Trump base is not
pro-Trump because they are eschewing the policies of these actors.

The GOP elite also played a crucial role in throwing open U.S. markets to China and ceding transnational corporations full freedom to move factories and jobs there and ship their Chinese-made goods back here, free of charge.
do we want deregulation or not? is the GOP not the party of fiscal conservatism and free markets?

you yourself advocate in favor of many free market principles...

While GOP grass roots have begged for measures to control our bleeding southern border, they were regularly denounced as nativists by party elites, many of whom are now backing Trump’s wall.
what's interesting is that while the GOP writ large is reacting to these emerging forces with nativism and
protectionism, the Democrats, who also have a working class base, are beginning to veer more towards
a democratic socialism platform.

I like this approach more than a retreat from global alliances and decorum.
 

FecalFace

Duke status
Nov 21, 2008
42,338
2,105
113
The Californias
ifallalot said:
Autoprax said:
ifallalot said:
Autoprax said:
I think he's simplifying things and ignoring relevant details that go counter to the narrative he wants to create.

Kinda like what you two clowns do on a daily basis here.

Duh!
Please illustrate these relevant details
For one thing, he ignores the rise of the evangelicals in the GOP party in the last 15 years.
The evangelical movement started during the 80s and reached its peak during the GWB years. If anything its fading right now
Wrong fucktard.

While earlier in the campaign some pundits and others questioned whether the thrice-married Trump would earn the bulk of white evangelical support, fully eight-in-ten self-identified white, born-again/evangelical Christians say they voted for Trump, while just 16% voted for Clinton. Trump’s 65-percentage-point margin of victory among voters in this group – which includes self-described Protestants, as well as Catholics, Mormons and others – matched or exceeded the victory margins of George W. Bush in 2004, John McCain in 2008 and Mitt Romney in 2012.



http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/09/how-the-faithful-voted-a-preliminary-2016-analysis/
 

Autoprax

Duke status
Jan 24, 2011
68,735
23,372
113
62
Vagina Point
ifallalot said:
Autoprax said:
ifallalot said:
Autoprax said:
I think he's simplifying things and ignoring relevant details that go counter to the narrative he wants to create.

Kinda like what you two clowns do on a daily basis here.

Duh!
Please illustrate these relevant details
For one thing, he ignores the rise of the evangelicals in the GOP party in the last 15 years.
The evangelical movement started during the 80s and reached its peak during the GWB years. If anything its fading right now
You heard of the freedom caucus?
 

Mike_Jones

Tom Curren status
Mar 5, 2009
11,557
2,350
113
.
There are a couple of really stupid things about this turmoil surrounding Trump's Supreme court pick.

1. Dems are complaining about Trump's choice, and calling him an extremist.

It hasn't even happened yet. Who's an extremist?

2. Dems do this at the confirmation hearings of every Republican president. They call him a radical extremist because he promises to rule based on law and the Constitution.

WTF?
.
 

sirfun

Duke status
Apr 26, 2008
17,881
7,077
113
U.S.A.
squidley said:
.
There are a couple of really stupid things about this turmoil surrounding Trump's Supreme court pick.

1. Dems are complaining about Trump's choice, and calling him an extremist.

It hasn't even happened yet. Who's an extremist?

2. Dems do this at the confirmation hearings of every Republican president. They call him a radical extremist because he promises to rule based on law and the Constitution.

WTF?
.
Republican's appointees ?? )



 

hal9000

Duke status
Jan 30, 2016
56,386
16,836
113
Urbana, Illinois
sirfun said:
squidley said:
.
There are a couple of really stupid things about this turmoil surrounding Trump's Supreme court pick.

1. Dems are complaining about Trump's choice, and calling him an extremist.

It hasn't even happened yet. Who's an extremist?

2. Dems do this at the confirmation hearings of every Republican president. They call him a radical extremist because he promises to rule based on law and the Constitution.

WTF?
.
Republican's appointees ?? )

Remember when Mitch McConnell blocked a Supreme Court nominee in april of 2016 because he said it was too close to the election? But Democrats are the problem.