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Rich Pavel Quad-Fish

J

JLW

Billy Hamilton status
Jul 7, 2004
1,665
62
48
What is the general template for the traditional Rich Pavel Quad-fin fish?

Is it drastically different from the traditional twin-fin Lis-inspired fish?

What are the differences between the two designs? (Besides the obvious difference in fins)

Also, what are the size of the fins on the quad fish? On average, what is the size (in inches) for the base of the fins, as well as how tall they are?

Thanks in advance,
John
 
T

tsenn

Billy Hamilton status
Feb 11, 2004
1,358
177
63
san diego
FWIW, There are some pictures of a Pavel Quad and a Lis fish on the resource section over at Swaylocks. I think they are in the 7 to 8' board pictures,just to give you an idea what the general shapes are. I have a 7'6" Pavel Quad myself, If I can fix my camera program I'll send some pics. Thanks
 
J

JLW

Billy Hamilton status
Jul 7, 2004
1,665
62
48
Okay, after some research I found out that the Pavel quad-fin fish is very similar to the Lis fish.

So, now that I found that out, what are the sizes (usually) of the fins of the typical quad-fin fish? What are the size of the fins that they have on the Mandala quad-fin fishes that Manny advertises on these forums?
 
J

JJR

Duke status
Mar 6, 2003
21,629
0
0
Cyclist hell
why not just call toby or lis up and copy it .
Click to expand...
Hey Skip, sign in the rub-out room at moonlight:
Q: What's the best thing about working at Mcdonalds?
A: You don't have to "buff" the fryes! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/monkey.gif" alt="" />
 
J

JLW

Billy Hamilton status
Jul 7, 2004
1,665
62
48
Okay, after some research I found out that the Pavel quad-fin fish is very similar to the Lis fish.

So, now that I found that out, what are the sizes (usually) of the fins of the typical quad-fin fish? What are the size of the fins that they have on the Mandala quad-fin fishes that Manny advertises on these forums?
Click to expand...

After that bad joke, can someone answer the above question? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/roflmao.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/socrazy.gif" alt="" />
 
H

highline rider

Miki Dora status
Jan 31, 2003
4,241
0
0
Orange County
i think your gonna have to experiment on that one unles you can find one. manny is kinda tight lipped about the set-up (rightfully so, as that is how he and rich pavel put the bread on the table). heres what i got so far --

front set -- single foiled, slightly toed and slightly canted.
rear set -- double foiled, parraleel to stringer, closer to stringer then front set.

it appears to me that the two sets of fins are around 1.5-2" from eachother, and the rear set is about 1-1.5" closer to the stringer.

both put together should resemble a keel outline, so if you have a 9x5" keel, to get the same area, you might wanna go 5x5" front fins, and 4x4" rear fins. just a guess, try what you like.

from my experiences, make sure to put them far enough forward, as the fins provide alot more bite then you might expect.

try making fins out of scrap surfboard foam, then glassing them. Its a cheap, light way to experiment with fins. they wont last forever, but should last enough for you to get the combo right.
 
J

JLW

Billy Hamilton status
Jul 7, 2004
1,665
62
48
i think your gonna have to experiment on that one unles you can find one. manny is kinda tight lipped about the set-up (rightfully so, as that is how he and rich pavel put the bread on the table). heres what i got so far --

front set -- single foiled, slightly toed and slightly canted.
rear set -- double foiled, parraleel to stringer, closer to stringer then front set.

it appears to me that the two sets of fins are around 1.5-2" from eachother, and the rear set is about 1-1.5" closer to the stringer.

both put together should resemble a keel outline, so if you have a 9x5" keel, to get the same area, you might wanna go 5x5" front fins, and 4x4" rear fins. just a guess, try what you like.

from my experiences, make sure to put them far enough forward, as the fins provide alot more bite then you might expect.

try making fins out of scrap surfboard foam, then glassing them. Its a cheap, light way to experiment with fins. they wont last forever, but should last enough for you to get the combo right.
Click to expand...

Very nicely detailed, and decisive reply, highline rider. I appreciate it a lot.

I'm very, very new to shaping (my first board was just done being shaped less than an hour ago), so what is a double-foiled fin? Is it like the center fin on a thruster where it is somewhat "arched" so water passes around it? And is a single-foiled fin like one on a twin-fin where only the outside part of the fin is "arched"?

I was very impressed with my first-ever shaped surfboard, it ended up pretty well. Surprisingly enough, it's pretty much symmetrical, and it came out just how i wanted.

From what I hear, a 5'8" quad fin (which is what I just shaped) is supposed to be like the drive and looseness of a Fish, while at the same time having thruster characteristics. Is this true?
 
L

LeeD

Rabbitt Bartholomew status
Jun 26, 2003
8,203
0
0
Berkeley,CA
Oh, I guess FedX/Conway finally delivered your blank...cool.
I kinda knew you could shape a decent board, so I'm glad it turned out good.
My take on quad/twinzers is that they are almost as loose as a twin, but much more positive, almost as positive as a tri.
And having 2 separate fins on each rail insures any spinout/cavitation should still be controllable on late, steep drops.
All the best worlds, only drawback is possibly more work and more chances of making a shaping/glassing/fin install mistake.
Good to see you're on here.
 
J

JLW

Billy Hamilton status
Jul 7, 2004
1,665
62
48
What's up LeeD.

Yeah, Con-way shipped my blank.

I expected shaping to be a lot harder. I mean, the only part where my board is noticeably assymetrical is in the nose. One side of the nose is thicker than the other by about 1/2 of an inch. But the shape of the nose doesn't matter so much, so I didn't bother to correct it.

Then again, I made a very, very simple template. It was just a 5'8" fish with almost no rocker, no concave, no vee, etc.

Oh, here are the dimensions of my first ever board:

5'8"x22"x2 3/4" quad fin, 3" of nose rocker, almost no tail rocker. It's very similar to a Lis fish.

The name of this template is the Maury eel-fish. Maury, because the first 2 syllables in my name are pronounced "More" and "ee", and Moray Eel is a type of fish. yeah, I know, it's corny.

The name of my new shaping company is "Exaggerated Circle Surfboards".
 
L

LeeD

Rabbitt Bartholomew status
Jun 26, 2003
8,203
0
0
Berkeley,CA
Good stuff there <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
And an easy travel board for you, for anything from knee high to almost 1.5 overhead. Treasure this one, as I didn't on my #1. It was screwy in symetry, kinda off the wall in design (6'x22.5"x3.5"thick single fin square tail), and of course, I blew the first bottom lam with quick setting catalyst, and not enough time.
Of course, no fish existed in those days to look at, and as far as I knew, no one rode shorter boards successfully then either. The year was 1967.
Now you gotta find a way to get blanks to your door cheaper, establish a growing clientele, and .....glass that #1, a truly frustrating/rewarding challenge.
Don't be shy with the questions, as HR and DK know as much as anyone on any construction subjects......and, they're your age, not some old fart living in the past <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
 
J

JLW

Billy Hamilton status
Jul 7, 2004
1,665
62
48
Hey Lee

Yeah, I hear that glassing is the hardest part. Approximately how much time does glassing take, without including waiting for the glass to dry?

What makes glassing so hard? Is it evenly distributing the resin within the "time limit"? And if the glass started to dry and there were a bunch of lumps, would you be able to fix it with a shitload of sanding?
 
L

LeeD

Rabbitt Bartholomew status
Jun 26, 2003
8,203
0
0
Berkeley,CA
Glassing is kinda an acquired skill.
First lams can take easily over 40 minutes...potlife likes to gell around 30.
If it's warm out, if you over mix catalyst, it can gell easily in 20 minutes.
Takes me about 8 minutes to layup either bottom or double layered deck, including final squeegee all around.
If you check swaylocks, notice every new glasser blows the first couple of lam jobs, taking too much time. I did, DK did, even the older craftsman like Schwuz.
You'll get it, and you can recover from almost any botched job, but it shows and looks ugly.
Glassing is sealing the board, making it strong, but most important, adding the aesthetics that complete the package.
 
J

JLW

Billy Hamilton status
Jul 7, 2004
1,665
62
48
Glassing is kinda an acquired skill.
First lams can take easily over 40 minutes...potlife likes to gell around 30.
If it's warm out, if you over mix catalyst, it can gell easily in 20 minutes.
Takes me about 8 minutes to layup either bottom or double layered deck, including final squeegee all around.
If you check swaylocks, notice every new glasser blows the first couple of lam jobs, taking too much time. I did, DK did, even the older craftsman like Schwuz.
You'll get it, and you can recover from almost any botched job, but it shows and looks ugly.
Glassing is sealing the board, making it strong, but most important, adding the aesthetics that complete the package.
Click to expand...
So, let's just say that the glass is starting to gel and I'm only half way done. If I know I won't finish in time, do I just peel the glass off and start over? What's the procedure for that? Just preparing for the worst. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
 
L

LeeD

Rabbitt Bartholomew status
Jun 26, 2003
8,203
0
0
Berkeley,CA
If you did that, it'd cost you about ....$15 worth of cloth plus about $15 worth of resin and catalyst plus about 2 hours reshaping the blank. Then you gotta replace the throwaway resin and cloth for $30.
Don't mix hotbatches. Use about just over 1/2 recommended catalyst. If it's warmer than say...80 degrees, you will have a problem with set time.
but ya gotta plunge right in and make the first step, because you only truely learn to glass by making the mistakes, and learning from them to NOT make the same mistakes again
There are sooooo. many variables coming up with glassing, sanding, sealing, glossing, fins, boxes, leash cups coming into your life. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
 
H

highline rider

Miki Dora status
Jan 31, 2003
4,241
0
0
Orange County
dude, dont even get sketched out by it. its really simple. the only mistakes youll make are ones from lack of practice. if you are really really worried about it, practice doing laps on a scrap piece of foam, and doing relief cuts too. i didnt do any of that and my board is still perfectly rideably 6 months later.
 
J

JLW

Billy Hamilton status
Jul 7, 2004
1,665
62
48
I know there's some kind of joke involved w/ that picture. I don't get it though <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/monkey.gif" alt="" />
 
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