Futures fin box - bubbles that occur during glassing

[surfMOMster]

Inspected my new board really well before surfing it for the first time. I found about 7 tiny air bubbles in the glass job. Was bummed about it but figured that since I got a great price on it I shouldn't grumble.
One of those little bubbles is on the center fin box above the screw. On Futures boxes there are two little semi-circles on top and an "F" on the bottom. I brushed some nail polish over the semi-circle and it seemed like it was sealed up okay.
Surfed the board two weeks ago, one session.
Stored the board upright.
Today I layed the board flat and was taking another good look at it. When I turned it over I noticed water had seeped out of the semi-circle in the fin box.
So now I'm disappointed that water's been sitting in that spot for two weeks now and I'm really worried that I could have caused damage to the foam.

Someone please tell me if those semi-circles are in direct contact with foam or is there resin in between the box and the foam before the box is layed in and glassed over.



For sure I'll put some resin over it when it drains completely.

 

[SurfCityNJ]

I'm having a somewhat similar problem rite now with my custom Planet Blue. The leash plug must not be fully sealed all the way around because my tail has a yellow circle around it now all the way through the board. Just seems like it happens on a rushed glassing job.
Peace,
Kyle

 

[TRI FINS ARE DANGEROUS]

Posted by "finslab" on 10/21/03

Tri Fins

I am sad to see that a professional like your self would not know the reason behind the air gussets in the Futures box
If you can see air bubbles in the box when finished, then you have incorrectly installed the box.
After the boxes are set in the board, all you have to do is level the board when you set your laminates and go pour a little resin over the tiny holes.
Futures put those holes in the system to ease your job.
All you have to do is call or e-mail and anyone at Future Fins would be glad to educate you.

<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/shrug.gif" alt="" />

 

[dk]

hahaha what a great post. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

such a professional?... <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/shrug.gif" alt="" /> 90 percent of the time you make jokes when asked questions <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/roflmao.gif" alt="" />

now that your a moderator and all it seems you have matured a little. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/socrazy.gif" alt="" />...now that your 53 years old and all <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

 

[have]

its one thing if theres little bubbles under the glass with futures but if theres water gettin in , of course thats an actual problem.

 

[gnarlydude]

I just lammed a board with futures and have some tiny bubbles i guess a should fill those very good.

 

[dk]

i put in leash plug and lokbox's on my board with epoxy and it bubbled up. the plug gave me a bitch of a time.

form now on ill use poly when doing it <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/socrazy.gif" alt="" />

 

[nice wave bro]

Someone please tell me if those semi-circles are in direct contact with foam or is there resin in between the box and the foam before the box is layed in and glassed over.

surfMOMster
To try to answer your question...It is possible that water has contacted the foam, however it is just as possible that it hasn't. If the box was installed correctly there should be resin surrounding the entire box effectively sealing the foam. It is possible for air to be trapped underneath the box potentially allowing water contact with the foam. If you have access to compressed air you can blow out any remaining water and the seal it with resin.

The first Futures didn't have those little "bubble magnets" and there wasn't a problem like what you're experiencing. Future claims they put them to help with insallation, but with their sloppy route and the added "bubble magnets" you have a right to be disappointed along with the glassers.

I hear there are some glassers experiencing bubble fatigue, bubble nerosis, and eyestrain from installing Futures. The industry is currently educating "bubble technicians", and has contracted a local university to put together a program to properly educate workers so they can keep up with the growing demand without "bubble burnout". Can anyone verify this? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

 

[Big Brother]

why doesn't future have a bonzer set up?

 

[rolliges]

why doesn't future have a bonzer set up?

Not worthy. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

 

[hackeysaky]

DK- if you are using Resin Research epoxy, use the "slow" hardener to set your plugs. The "fast" hardener will bubble up on you, but the slow should not. Whenever I am using the slow-set stuff for fin repairs, I fill the void between the plug and foam halfway, set the angle, and then fill the remainder once that has set. Seems to help prevent overflowing the void if I have to adjust the angle once the fin is set (if you shift the plug, it will displace the resin and spill over onto the board, or worse onto/into the plug), and should prevent distortion of the box if the resin heats up excessively (should not happen with the slow hardener, but better safe than sorry).

Oh yeah, general rule of thumb is that you should keep everything clean- if there is dust or oils (like from your hands) on the surface you are treating, it can cause boiling at lower temps (for example- pure, de-ionized water will take a whole lot of energy to boil, but tap water will boil at a much lower point because of all the impurities in it).

 

[blakestah]

Companies like Futures and FCS make fairly predictable moves based on changes in market share. If they notice a change, they have resources to react aggressively. My guess is that Bonzers used to be glassed, and now are made with Lokbox or Red-X. This means no market share is taken from FCS/Futures. Also, probably the Bonzers are not eating into the thruster market share in any way meaningful to Futures or FCS.

All this subject to change as Bonzer-mania grows. You will know it is something substantial when FCS and Futures support it.

All this discussion I wrote refers to market share and business, may or may not have anything to do with how well these fin systems work.

 

[rolliges]

hacky, that is the absolute best, most detailed, construction advice i've ever heard on this "Design Forum."

<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/applause.gif" alt="" />
<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/applause.gif" alt="" />
<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/applause.gif" alt="" />

 

[surfMOMster]

I took a Dremel to it, used the engraver bit ( the smallest one we have) and widened the hole so I could drain the water. I'd say that there were about 6 dropfuls of water in there. I twisted the edge of a napkin as skinny as I could and stuck it in there to soak up whatever moisture was left in the slot.
The water that I took out smelled like resin. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
I blew out the hole and let it air dry for a while and then I fixed it up with Solarez...not a big enough job to mix up a real batch so a dab or two with a toothpick worked just fine.

Water did get into the fin box but the water that came out was clear and had no foam particles in it nor did it have any debris like sand. Only thing is, why did the water smell like resin and not salt water?

 

[hackeysaky]

Rob- wow, thanks for the props. I'm not sure if it was the best tip ever (I have picked up some good recommendations here in the past), but I'm glad you appreciate my effort to be helpful.

Surfmomster- you prob did the right thing to drain what you could out of there before patching it up. I have gotten a resin-whiff from boards when cracking them before repairing them... sometimes they are relatively new, sometimes a few months old. I think what generally happens is that the resin gets catalyzed to a high degree (this is a guess, but somewhere around 98-99%) within the first few days to weeks, then it slowly finishes off that last 1-2% (another guess) over time (that time being on the scale of months to a year. Ya gotta also figure that if the board is water (and air) tight, whatever fumes that are gassed off in the curing process are going to get trapped inside indefinitely until the board is opened up (dinged).

Additionally, from what I understand, the lam coat (to bond the fiberglass cloth to the foam) never fully catalyzes to 100% hardness and remains a little "sticky" (prob not even to the touch, but on a molecular level) to keep the bond between the cloth and foam a tad flexible... think about this analogy: if the glue adhering a traction pad to a surfboard ever became 100% dry, it would probably pop off the board and never be able to re-adhere. If it stays kindy soft and tacky, it had a better bond, and if that bond it compromised, it has a chance to re-adhere before completely failing. Same concept with this lam coat (maybe?).

 

[hackeysaky]

Surfmomster- I just routed the cracked plugs out of an old ...lost (yellow, plenty of leaky dings, looks plenty old and worn. The last two #'s of the serial # are 99, so it might go as far back as 1999) to do a repair, and got the resin whiff! Guess that odor sticks around!