A twinzer, a thruster and a bonzer walked into a (sand) bar..

[One-Off]

My past three surfs have finally been on shortboards at a beach break. There hadn't been good waves at the local beaches since July. I wouldn't really call them sandbars, but they were surfable, and by this point I have pretty low standards.

My impression of the three boards (6-5 twinzer, 6-3 thruster, 6-1 bonzer5) -

The twinzer is the quickest out the gate and probably the fastest. It is also very loose. At times it felt too loose. I switched out the main fins for some bigger ones and we'll see if that changes what I feel are control issues. Also very sensitive to foot placement. If my feet were in the right place it felt very positive. If my feet were in the wrong place then all bets were off. But archer not arrow.

The thruster was the board I felt I could push the hardest in turns. It likes to gouge. It was also the board that had the most difficulty getting around sections. You have to do all that hip jiving pump turns and even then sometimes it doesn't work. I see why it is standard with pros though. It 's the board that can do the big, flashy turns (can't speak to airs...I'm 62 for fuks sake).

The bonzer was just smooth. When I managed to get a wave that gave me some room for turns, they linked up so nicely. I think it was the board that promotes the best style. Kind of constant velocity rather than slash-wait/straight, pump pump, slash-wait/straight...

All three days were mostly close outs, so the actual number of decent waves I surfed on each board was pretty limited. At this moment I like the bonzer the best. I don't know how to explain it. Maybe it was like skiing in powder as opposed to hard pack? Or skating a longboard skateboard down a smooth wide open hill. But that could just be because it was the board I surfed today and so the memory is fresh.

Tomorrow, even though the bonzer is begging to be ridden again, I'll try the twinzer with bigger fins.

The timing of the surf is tricky. Early AM and the tide is too high. If you wait too long the wind gets to it and also it starts to close out heading towards minus tide. I'm aiming for 9:30 tomorrow.


Footnote for old guys- surfing shortboards is wonderful for the paddle out. So easy to duck dive compared to longer boards, but my low back is very sore and twinge prone afterwards...

 

[One-Off]

Oh, the boards in question

 

[sushipop]

Man, I love your posts. It’s what this joint is all about.

 

[Black]

How do the rockers compare? It may just be the photo but the thruster looks like its got more rocker which would increase the typical thruster characteristics you describe.

 

[ghostshaper]

It's difficult to see from the angle, but the gap between canards/mains makes a huge difference. Are you able to spread the cluster?

Having a center anchor vs not, makes a huge difference in ride feel. Not too surprising about what you reported.

 

[Duffy LaCoronilla]

Oh, the boards in question

View attachment 170126


View attachment 170127


View attachment 170128

Have you ever tried a bonzer with a glassed on center fin?

 

[One-Off]

How do the rockers compare? It may just be the photo but the thruster looks like its got more rocker which would increase the typical thruster characteristics you describe.

Rockers are fairly similar- about 4” nose, 2” tail. The twinzer does have quite a bit of vee behind the fins.

It's difficult to see from the angle, but the gap between canards/mains makes a huge difference. Are you able to spread the cluster?

Having a center anchor vs not, makes a huge difference in ride feel. Not too surprising about what you reported.

1/4” overlap trailing edge of canard / lead edge of main. I could cut down the tabs. The fins are birch play with 3 layers of 4oz over each side and a 1/8” carbon rod in the tab going into fin 1/2”.

I rode the board today but the surf was small so no useful observations made re bigger fins.

Have you ever tried a bonzer with a glassed on center fin?

No. I always liked having the possibility of adjustment. I‘ve had 3 bonzers previously. Two worked fine with fin set at standard 1/2” overlap. This one is set at 1/2” overlap and felt fine. But one bronzer felt stiff and I ended up with the fin all the way forward in the box.

What’s your take?

 

[waxfoot]

Congratulations, you're in the running of the best Thread title of the year award.

ps: we should do an ERBB "Surfer award" like the olden days, but, just focused on keyboard shredder stuff, like
* Thread of the year
* Thread title of the year
* Comment of the year
* New meme of the year

etc

Anyone here interested in Admin of the award nominees ?

 

[Duffy LaCoronilla]

No. I always liked having the possibility of adjustment. I‘ve had 3 bonzers previously. Two worked fine with fin set at standard 1/2” overlap. This one is set at 1/2” overlap and felt fine. But one bronzer felt stiff and I ended up with the fin all the way forward in the box.

What’s your take?

I just think water would flow over/by the fin more efficiently if the box and screw weren’t there.

Someone posted here some years ago a pic of a guy shooting water from a hose at a glass-on fin and at a fin in a box - can’t remember what boards or fins - and the difference was quite obvious.

I’ve had fish boards with futures and same board - shaper, dims, etc idnetical - with glass-ons and there was a fairly noticeable difference in overall feel

That being said I just bought an AO twin with fin boxes instead of glass-ons. It’s the first AO I’ve had with boxes.

When I get home I’ll run the hose test on my two AOs. One glass, one Futures.

 

[ghostshaper]

Rockers are fairly similar- about 4” nose, 2” tail. The twinzer does have quite a bit of vee behind the fins.




1/4” overlap trailing edge of canard / lead edge of main. I could cut down the tabs. The fins are birch play with 3 layers of 4oz over each side and a 1/8” carbon rod in the tab going into fin 1/2”.

I rode the board today but the surf was small so no useful observations made re bigger fins.




No. I always liked having the possibility of adjustment. I‘ve had 3 bonzers previously. Two worked fine with fin set at standard 1/2” overlap. This one is set at 1/2” overlap and felt fine. But one bronzer felt stiff and I ended up with the fin all the way forward in the box.

What’s your take?

I would start at zero overlap and increase the gap from there. In my magic twinzer, I had a 0.5" gap for everyday slop. Wil talked w me about how he liked the ability to spread the cluster w increasing surf.

Leveler made me some bigger canards that ended up being looser bc they lessened the gap.

 

[One-Off]

I just think water would flow over/by the fin more efficiently if the box and screw weren’t there.

Someone posted here some years ago a pic of a guy shooting water from a hose at a glass-on fin and at a fin in a box - can’t remember what boards or fins - and the difference was quite obvious.

I’ve had fish boards with futures and same board - shaper, dims, etc idnetical - with glass-ons and there was a fairly noticeable difference in overall feel

That being said I just bought an AO twin with fin boxes instead of glass-ons. It’s the first AO I’ve had with boxes.

When I get home I’ll run the hose test on my two AOs. One glass, one Futures.

I seriously thought about glassing on the fin. I prefer the look and on this one it would have complimented the the wood grain. But I remember while working at the boatbuilder that big fillets (where hull and keel meet) were frowned upon from the hydrodynamic stand point. The fillet was merely to facilitate the glassing. That said, boats never had gaping hollow slots on their bottoms.

 

[Duffy LaCoronilla]

I seriously thought about glassing on the fin. I prefer the look and on this one it would have complimented the the wood grain. But I remember while working at the boatbuilder that big fillets (where hull and keel meet) were frowned upon from the hydrodynamic stand point. The fillet was merely to facilitate the glassing. That said, boats never had gaping hollow slots on their bottoms.

Also a boat keel is a lot bigger than a fin and, assuming you’re talking about sailboats, displacement hull hydrodynamics don’t necessarily apply to planing

 

[One-Off]

I would start at zero overlap and increase the gap from there. In my magic twinzer, I had a 0.5" gap for everyday slop. Wil talked w me about how he liked the ability to spread the cluster w increasing surf.

Leveler made me some bigger canards that ended up being looser bc they lessened the gap.

By gap you mean overlap? So you start at zero and then increase overlap, shortening the cluster? I don’t think the board needs to be looser. It has the thinnest rails of the three which I would have translated to hold, burying the rail…but it is also the widest at 20”. Counter intuitively (to me) the thruster, which has the fullest rails (I would compare them to a pyzalien2XL), was the board that felt like it held the best in turns.

 

[feralseppo]

I just think water would flow over/by the fin more efficiently if the box and screw weren’t there.

Someone posted here some years ago a pic of a guy shooting water from a hose at a glass-on fin and at a fin in a box - can’t remember what boards or fins - and the difference was quite obvious.

I’ve had fish boards with futures and same board - shaper, dims, etc idnetical - with glass-ons and there was a fairly noticeable difference in overall feel

That being said I just bought an AO twin with fin boxes instead of glass-ons. It’s the first AO I’ve had with boxes.

When I get home I’ll run the hose test on my two AOs. One glass, one Futures.

Glass that Bonzer fin on in the wrong spot and you are fvcked.

 

[need 4 speed]

0 overlap is the tightest I run my fin cluster( on my 6-5) my 6-2s have about a 1/2" gap . I used a more upright template the last two sessions in my bat tail. At first I thought I was feeling it but now switching back to my Griffin template. I do prefer the upright template in my 6-5, loosen all that rail line.

 

[ghostshaper]

By gap you mean overlap? So you start at zero and then increase overlap, shortening the cluster? I don’t think the board needs to be looser. It has the thinnest rails of the three which I would have translated to hold, burying the rail…but it is also the widest at 20”. Counter intuitively (to me) the thruster, which has the fullest rails (I would compare them to a pyzalien2XL), was the board that felt like it held the best in turns.

Gap is the opposite of overlap. Start at zero and then widen the cluster.

Rail thickness and rail profile could be thought of as two independent variables. I like thin, round rails w a sharp edge ala MC and GG.

 

[flyinraptr]

+1 on easier paddle out for older guys .... plus my experience is my shoulders don't feel as beat up the next day. Trying different boards is something i like to do as well .... keeps things interesting and i think helps your surfing in the long run. Suggestion .... after trying the twinzer with bigger fins .... try it as a straight twin .... without the canards it may give you the feeling you're looking for. After not riding them for a long time .... experimenting with quad setups .... growing to like the setup in fast beach break barrels.

 

[Swiftvelo]

What @ghostshaper and @need 4 speed are saying. Thankfully I have some fins that Tony made me each with different tab placement. When surf is crap I’ll run the bigger mains with a touch of overlap, loosens it up and playful. When surf is good I’ll run a smaller main with no overlap, completely different board, six gear kicks in.

 

[Swiftvelo]

By gap you mean overlap? So you start at zero and then increase overlap, shortening the cluster? I don’t think the board needs to be looser. It has the thinnest rails of the three which I would have translated to hold, burying the rail…but it is also the widest at 20”. Counter intuitively (to me) the thruster, which has the fullest rails (I would compare them to a pyzalien2XL), was the board that felt like it held the best in turns.

Here’s what @ghostshaper was talking about. From Vince B up in Santa Cruz.

 

[One-Off]

Also a boat keel is a lot bigger than a fin and, assuming you’re talking about sailboats, displacement hull hydrodynamics don’t necessarily apply to planing

The reduction of the size of the fillet had more to do with vortex drag, the movement of fluid over the end of a wing section. In the case of keels and fins, where the end meets the hull/bottom , we're talking about the lack of this movement. The more perpendicular the joint the more efficient (less movement away from direct fore aft). The bigger the fillet, the more easily the airflow can deflect. This effect I believe would hold regardless of whether the hull is planing or not. In fact at planing speeds it might be more apparent. You see old boats and planes having big fillets (which are aesthtiically pleasing) which I think was more a nod to structural intergrity, but modern ones do not. Whether or not this can even be felt on a surfboard I don't know, but I kind of doubt it. If I recall correctly GG was adamant about the inferiority of glassed on fins.

I like glass ons, eg. I would never uses boxes for the runners.

In a complete different but realted topic, while googling to find a scholarly article on interference drag of sailbnoat appendages I came across this- LEX- leading edge extensions. Or more specifically LERT - leading edge root extensions. The concept sounds similar to the canard theory. I do not recollect anyone doing something like this with surfboard fins but I could be wrong.

How does the use of Leading Edge Root Extension help in increasing stall angle?

Leading Edge Root Extensions were first used in Northrop F-5A/B Freedom Fighter, which first flew in 1959. After that, many fighter air-crafts have used it, some of which are mentioned after the qu...

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