The people who allow this to be call themselves the compassionate ones...

[grapedrink]

I’ve posted my idea on this several times.

If you live in the streets and refuse services you are to be declared a danger to yourself and others (clearly the person in the photo above is both) and you should be forcibly institutionalized and detoxed until it is determined by mental health professionals that you can live somewhere other than in the streets.

We don’t need to change a single law. We just need to recognize that the chronically homeless are in fact a danger to themselves and others. The law already allows forced institutionalizing of such people.

LA city (just the city) has spent billions (with a B) in just the last couple years on “housing” and it has had absolutely zero effect.

the politicians who run these shithole third world cities here in the US are using the homeless as props to virtue signal their compassion. Meanwhile their props are dying in the streets daily.

It’s fucking gross and should be criminal. I agree with Dr. Drew when he says that the leaders of LA, SF and Seattle (and more) should no longer be protected from liability or prosecution on this.

Forcing the chronically homeless into mental health facilities is far more compassionate to both the homeless and the people who live and work among them.

There is a large cottage industry of non-profits who reap all the benefits of the funds allocated for combating homelessness and the heads of these non-profits pay themselves 6 figure salaries. They have a huge financial incentive to continue business as usual. If homelessness is more or less solved you put this industry out of business and they fight tooth and nail to not let that happen.

Any questions?

Spot on and well said.

I was listening to a segment on NPR about homeless in Santa Rosa that live along the Joe Rodata trail, which if you aren't familiar is a creek that runs close to downtown. Upwards of 200+ living in the creek. The neighbors are sick of it- many of them have had their homes broken into, and lots of joggers/cyclists/walkers etc have been harassed.

With NPR being NPR, they allowed equal talk time to a local homeless "activist" who framed the whole issue as all of them being victims of high rents and falling on hard times. Are there some homeless who have had a cascade of unfortunate events that led to them being homeless? Yes, of course. Except those types are usually the easiest to help and the most likely to pull themselves out of it with some support. Which of course is never acknowledged.

Beyond that, there was no mention of the cost and regulatory hurdles associated with building new housing, or even temporary housing for the homeless. No mention of the fact that lots of them are drug addicts who have no intention of fixing their addictions. The host even read the comment of someone who said that the residents and users of the trail should simply "Jog somewhere else".

NPR- NO BIAS

 

[Billy Ocean]

I’ve seen the current institutional options available where I live and they are not someplace you’d be excited to put someone you care about

And these are places that charge a lot of money

They tie people down to beds routinely

I’m not saying some people don’t need this occasionally but the low level workers they have working in these places are not educated people by and large

They have force as an available option and it is the easiest option so they use it a lot

If you were severely mentally ill, you might opt to take your chances on the street instead of spending your days being subjected to that

 

[Duffy LaCoronilla]

Spot on and well said.

I was listening to a segment on NPR about homeless in Santa Rosa that live along the Joe Rodata trail, which if you aren't familiar is a creek that runs close to downtown. Upwards of 200+ living in the creek. The neighbors are sick of it- many of them have had their homes broken into, and lots of joggers/cyclists/walkers etc have been harassed.

With NPR being NPR, they allowed equal talk time to a local homeless "activist" who framed the whole issue as all of them being victims of high rents and falling on hard times. Are there some homeless who have had a cascade of unfortunate events that led to them being homeless? Yes, of course. Except those types are usually the easiest to help and the most likely to pull themselves out of it with some support. Which of course is never acknowledged.

Beyond that, there was no mention of the cost and regulatory hurdles associated with building new housing, or even temporary housing for the homeless. No mention of the fact that lots of them are drug addicts who have no intention of fixing their addictions. The host even read the comment of someone who said that the residents and users of the trail should simply "Jog somewhere else".

NPR- NO BIAS

I’ve lived in my car for a couple months on two separate occasions. Each time it happened I made it my unrelenting 24/7 goal to improve my situation so I could get a regular place to live.

My wife’s brother on the other hand had multiple mental health diagnoses (bi-polar, schizophrenia among them) and was chronically homeless from the time he was 17 until he was in his late 30s. He was only off the streets when he’d harm himself (attempt suicide) or when we (family) could get him put somewhere. He eventually got his meds good enough to be able to live with my in-laws in his 30s and did so until he died of colon cancer at 41.

He was one of my best friends in high school.

I post this to illustrate that not all homelessness is created equal. My BIL refused services, took tons of drugs (psychedelics mostly) and attempted suicide on several occasions.

My situation, on the other hand, was temporary and transitional. I never asked for help because of pride (or whatever) but if 2 months turned onto 3 or 4 months I would have taken help if offered.

This isn’t a housing problem btw. Los Angeles has thousands of vacant apartments right now. Ironically this fact is used by homeless advocates to “prove” that it is a housing problem when it actually proves the opposite. And offering these apartments at discounted rates isn’t going to get the person pictured in the op off the street.

And another thing the “homeless is a housing problem“ people don‘t get* - when they pass these rent control laws it makes the rental housing market even tighter...

*I think they do actually get it and are just lying.

 

[Duffy LaCoronilla]

I'm paying taxes dummy.

Putting 3 homeless people in my living room will not solve the problem.

This is the dumbest falacy you people use.

The false notion that personal charity is a substitute for social programs is part of the reason this problem exists in the first place.

The taxes you are paying are not being allocated correctly. In fact it’s pretty much just being stolen to prop up an industry of homeless “advocates” and “non-profit organizations“ who’s actions have demonstrably made the problem worse (I believe in most cases on purpose).

Follow the money after it’s taken from you.

This isn’t about lack civility. It’s about mental illness, graft, political corruption, incompetence and the fetishization of homeless as props to further political careers.

 

[Duffy LaCoronilla]

I’ve seen the current institutional options available where I live and they are not someplace you’d be excited to put someone you care about

And these are places that charge a lot of money

They tie people down to beds routinely

I’m not saying some people don’t need this occasionally but the low level workers they have working in these places are not educated people by and large

They have force as an available option and it is the easiest option so they use it a lot

If you were severely mentally ill, you might opt to take your chances on the street instead of spending your days being subjected to that

Where? Name names. That can be dealt with. If you’ve “seen” criminal activity at these facilities have you reported it?

Even the worst of what you seen is better than how these street people are living.

 

[Duffy LaCoronilla]

You have to make the institutions better than before

Actual trained people who understand the conditions they’re dealing with and who know how to de escalate conflict

Not minimum wage orderlies who use brute force and terror

If you’re not willing to spend real money to make it a humane environment it will be a hellhole for these people

We also have to stop fighting last week’s battle.

The days of cuckoos nest and nurse ratchet are long gone.

Yes there were some horrible abuses in the past.

in the past...

We also used to have to go to the library to find out what that pink bump on my left butt cheek is.

Now we have google. that pink lump is cancer.

It’s been a good Run. See you all on the Great ERBB in the Sky!!!!

 

[Billy Ocean]

We also have to stop fighting last week’s battle.

The days of cuckoos nest and nurse ratchet are long gone.

Yes there were some horrible abuses in the past.

in the past...

We also used to have to go to the library to find out what that pink bump on my left butt cheek is.

Now we have google. that pink lump is cancer.

It’s been a good Run. See you all on the Great ERBB in the Sky!!!!

I disagree that the abuses are in the past

Good treatment for mental illness is VERY expensive

This is arguably our most vulnerable group of people too because they can’t really advocate for themselves

Just for the sake of argument, consider they might have a reason they prefer being homeless to being in an institution

Isn’t it possible that it might be worse?

Imagine being held in a place, drugged into a stupor and tied down whenever you didn’t immediately comply with a request

 

[Billy Ocean]

Now I’m not saying institutionalization is per se bad

But it is very hard to do it humanely because these people are very challenging

I certainly couldn’t work in that environment

Few people want to

Of the people they do get, what % do you think are truly disposed to handling it well?

Especially the low level workers?

Imagine you are getting paid a lower middle class wage and dealing with people like this

You’d probably be like, f this, and you’d have a good point

 

[casa_mugrienta]

Uh that old dumb falacy again.

What does that got to do with anything?

There's nothing dumb about telling you to stop giving money to panhandlers.

You personally are slowly killing them via every cent you give them.

Or maybe it's a quick painless death - an opiate OD you caused with the coins you tossed them a few hours before.

 

[Billy Ocean]

My point is, to offer a truly humane option, that people might actually choose over being homeless, would be VERY expensive

And for these people, who few really care about because, let’s face it, they’re not productive, spending that much money kind of seems like throwing it away

This is the real issue

If people want to really deal with it, they should get real about what we’re talking about

If the California governor would talk about it like this, then I would be impressed

 

[Surfdog]

Maybe if we put them up in a Logans Run type living environment?

They could be isolated in these little dome cities living a carefree life where all is provided and life is easy and free.

But the catch is, you don't live past 30 and go to the Carousel.

If you want to live past 30, you need to be able to make it in the outside "real" world.

There would be training and a test for that. Otherwise.....

(pretty funny how this clip envisions todays Tinder/grindr)

 

[Duffy LaCoronilla]

Just for the sake of argument, consider they might have a reason they prefer being homeless to being in an institution

And my whole point here is that if you “prefer” living in the urban streets you are a danger to yourself and others so by law you need to be involuntarily treated.

I’m talking about people who refuse services.

Look, in Los Angeles if you are homeless you can go to a plethora of agencies and non-profits and get housing, mental health care, drug treatment, etc. all at no cost to you. It’s there for the taking, no real requirements at all. You don’t even have to be in the country legally. All you have to do is ask and in many cases it’s just plain offered up

Yet there are still an estimated 60,000 homeless people in the street jus in Los Angeles.

Why do these people refuse services? Because the are fuckking crazy and or addicted to drugs. They are harming themselves and they are harming the public.

Allowing them to continue doing so is literally killing people.

Averaging almost 3 per day....

More than 1,000 homeless people died in Los Angeles county last year

The county’s public health department has reported 1,047 deaths for last year, a number that has increased steadily since 2013

www.theguardian.com

I can come on this forum every single day, day after day, and post a brand new photo of someone living in absolute filth and visibly suffering. There is no shortage of that.

And you say mental health is expensive?

$1,000,000,000 (yes billion) spent each year just in Los Angeles as we speak.

Los Angeles Is Spending Over $1 Billion To House the Homeless. It’s Failing.

More than 2,500 homeless individuals sleep on the streets of the 53-square-block Skid Row area in downtown Los Angeles. "Skid...

reason.com

And the problem is getting worse. Do you know what they are not doing with that money?

Involuntarily putting people in treatment.

This isn’t some theoretical mind exercise. What these city and state leaders are doing is plainly and obviously and demonstrably failing on the most failing failure of fails you can fail.

Yet it continues. More money for the same failing programs. Meanwhile some people are making some good money....

The Homeless Industrial Complex

Los Angeles could be at risk of a deadly typhus epidemic this summer according to Dr. Drew Pinsky, an outspoken celebrity doctor and specialist in addiction medicine. Pinsky, a Los Angeles native, recently quoted on Fox News, said: “We have tens and tens of thousands of people living in tents...

californiapolicycenter.org

 

[Billy Ocean]

Yeah, ok, so it seems they are not spending the money very well

I agree that something seems amiss if they are spending that much already

 

[Billy Ocean]

Again, I don’t have a problem with the concept of involuntary commitment

I just don’t want to condemn sick people to hellhole environments

 

[Duffy LaCoronilla]

There's nothing dumb about telling you to stop giving money to panhandlers.

You personally are slowly killing them via every cent you give them.

Or maybe it's a quick painless death - an opiate OD you caused with the coins you tossed them a few hours before.

There’s a local homeless lady that hangs out in an area that is a few blocks form my home. She’s been around for at least 15 years and we see her several times a week. She‘s clearly mentally ill.

Over the years of seeing her out and about we (my wife and I) became familiar friendly faces. We’d smile at each other in passing but no other real interactions.

A couple years ago we were running some errands and ran into her (we are in walking distance of most our needs) and it was really cold and rain was on the way. My wife finally broke down and ended up giving her $10.

We did our errands, stopped in a CVS and got a couple Lunchables to give to the lady if we saw her again on the way home.

We saw her. She reeked of alcohol and was completely smashed. It was a very stark cause and effect lesson of why giving her money was a mistake.

Since then whenever I see her when I’m out walking or riding my bike I’ll pick up some snacks (she likes cheese) to give to her.

Now when she sees me she says hi, calls me by name and smiles a big smile. Just in the last couple months she’s even accepted a hug here and there.

My wife and have in the past offered her a place to get cleaned up (when our rental unit is vacant) but she always refused and we stopped offering.

I sometimes wondering if forcing her into a care facility would be better for her...then I’m reminded of some of the horrible things that have been done to her during her years living on the street.

At that I wonder no more.

I worry about her a lot when I don‘t see her around.

Her name is Christine.

She’s a human being.

 

[Duffy LaCoronilla]

Again, I don’t have a problem with the concept of involuntary commitment

I just don’t want to condemn sick people to hellhole environments

Nowhere in any of my post do I suggest they should be put in abusive places.

And again, if you have knowledge of such horrible things happening you should report it.

 

[FecalFace]

The taxes you are paying are not being allocated correctly.

that’s exactly what I was saying

The problem is that people, not politicians, don’t want it allocated correctly. I mean look at this thread. “How many people are you going to take in your living room” LOL

if people wanted it, they would elect someone who would allocate the funds correctly.

but the fear of spending money for something other than punishing the homeless, is too much for some people.


It’s everything to do with the lack of civility and civicness.

This society is all about the self, fuck everybody and everything else.

 

[FecalFace]

“We have become a Nazi monster in the eyes of the whole world—a nation of bullies and bastards who would rather kill than live peacefully. We are not just Whores for power and oil, but killer whores with hate and fear in our hearts. We are human scum, and that is how history will judge us. . . . No redeeming social value. Just whores. Get out of our way, or we’ll kill you.
Well, sh!t on that dumbness. George W. Bush does not speak for me or my son or my mother or my friends or the people I respect in this world. We didn’t vote for these cheap, greedy little killers who speak for America today—and we will not vote for them again in 2002. Or 2004. Or ever.
Who does vote for these dishonest shitheads? Who among us can be happy and proud of having all this innocent blood on our hands? Who are these swine? These flag-sucking half-wits who get fleeced and fooled by stupid little rich kids like George Bush?
They are the same ones who wanted to have Muhammad Ali locked up for refusing to kill gooks. They speak for all that is cruel and stupid and vicious in the American character. They are the racists and hate mongers among us—they are the Ku Klux Klan. I **** down the throats of these Nazis.
And I am too old to worry about whether they like it or not. Fuck them.”

If HST was alive in the age of Trump, that would be something to see.

 

[grapedrink]

that’s exactly what I was saying

The problem is that people, not politicians, don’t want it allocated correctly. I mean look at this thread. “How many people are you going to take in your living room” LOL

Lolz. The cities with the worst homeless issues have the most liberal voting bases as well, who on average are more sympathetic towards the homeless, addicts, mentally ill, etc. Some of these cities, like LA and SF, throw 100s of millions a year at the issue. Do you really think those voters do not want to see their tax dollars help to actually fix the homeless issues that they deal with complain about all the time?

 

[FecalFace]

Lolz. The cities with the worst homeless issues have the most liberal voting bases as well, who on average are more sympathetic towards the homeless, addicts, mentally ill, etc. Some of these cities, like LA and SF, throw 100s of millions a year at the issue. Do you really think those voters do not want to see their tax dollars help to actually fix the homeless issues that they deal with complain about all the time?

Money has obviously not been allocated correctly.
And attitudes in this thread, most of which are from the people who live in these “most liberal cities”, clearly proves that thát doesn’t mean sh!t.

I