XTR

MathDebater

Nep status
Apr 13, 2016
568
595
93
SD
You’d hope so. My last custom had a mistake (no rail spray) but everything else correct. They offered to redo and expedite it or give me a discount and some swag.
 

oeste858

Gerry Lopez status
Sep 11, 2017
1,033
1,417
113
San Diego, CA
When a mistake is made, and a replacement is agreed upon, is it expected to be expedited? Currently in this situation (totally wrong dims from Super).
Depends on the business obviously. But it certainly should... if they give a crap about customer satisfaction. A small business should be willing to take a loss on that one job because it would lead to repeat business from a happy customer, positive word of mouth and reviews to potential new customers- at the very least, you wouldn't lose future sales. Reputations travel pretty quickly in surfing. People know that mistakes can happen in any transaction, but they tend to remember when a business went out their way to "make it right". I think all of us were pretty stoked to see Pyzel responding with an offer to help @ChaseTMP - even though his team didn't finish the board and it was XTR's issue. Personally, I'd happily support a shaper like that if choosing between him and a competitor. As we've all bitched about, the board industry is so disorganized, even a shaper who runs a reasonably competent organization, really stands out.
 

sdsrfr

Legend (inyourownmind)
Jul 13, 2020
481
605
93
San Diego
there is a reason why amazon is so successful and a major part of it is their no hassle customer service. If you buy something that isn’t as advertised you can return it or get a replacement with expedited service.

I disagree with anyone who says this stuff should be locked up in secret between customer and shaper.

let it be known and let them make good of it. if they make good they will have no problem showing up here. Pyzel seems to be selling more boars not less.
 
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Aruka

Phil Edwards status
Feb 23, 2010
6,953
3,608
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I don't think comparing a custom surfboard shaper to Amazon is very helpful. Other than the fact that they are businesses that sell things they couldn't be more different.
 
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sdsrfr

Legend (inyourownmind)
Jul 13, 2020
481
605
93
San Diego
Ok, wavestorm. Costco give you a free one if ya break it or money back if it dont work right.

they are doing just fine.
 

Aruka

Phil Edwards status
Feb 23, 2010
6,953
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You're still comparing a hand made custom item from a small business to mass produced imported goods. They are operating on completely different scales.

I'm not saying a custom maker shouldn't be willing to work with the customer if something goes wrong but expecting them to have the same sort of "satisfaction guaranteed", "no questions asked" return policy as a huge corporation seems unfair.

The margins on custom boards are so slim. I'm sure they would love to be able to give you a fresh board after you buckle yours in the shore pound but there's just no way that's feasible.

It's amazing that domestically made custom surfboards are even still a thing in 2020. These builders also have to pay taxes unlike Amazon.
 

sdsrfr

Legend (inyourownmind)
Jul 13, 2020
481
605
93
San Diego
By all means I hear you on the differences and especially w.rt. margins. I disagree tho that managing sales and customers is any different across any forms of sales.

satisfaction is from built up anticipation before receiving the goods. for the life of the product you will virtually never be as satisfied as that first impression let’s you be.

Tim Stamps is selling boards because we the erBB are hyping him. Maybe only a handful a year because of this place but he paid $0 directly to surfer for that advertisement. All he did was answer emails and charge a fair price and keep his customers happy and coming back.
 
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JBerry

Gerry Lopez status
Dec 8, 2017
1,113
494
83
By all means I hear you on the differences and especially w.rt. margins. I disagree tho that managing sales and customers is any different across any forms of sales.

satisfaction is from built up anticipation before receiving the goods. for the life of the product you will virtually never be as satisfied as that first impression let’s you be.

Tim Stamps is selling boards because we the erBB are hyping him. Maybe only a handful a year because of this place but he paid $0 directly to surfer for that advertisement. All he did was answer emails and charge a fair price and keep his customers happy and coming back.
IMO, from a business and customer service standpoint, yes, in a way business is business, and good or bad service is good or bad service.
However, the surfboard business is a strange one.

Think about it, the amazons of surfboards, CI, LOST, FW,JS, etc, the largest of them may make up to 3000 boards(units) per month. These guys financially may be able to honor a return policy similar to amazon, however all of the other smaller mid size board makers out there, probably couldn't afford to have those policies. So, for them, a policy to make a board right, as in @ChaseTMP's case, (fix nose blem, and maybe give a discount or % $return for the flat rail((which could be shaped that way on purpose??or floated with resin to bring true?)) seems reasonable to me. Not a brand new board. That's just crazy talk. Now if the board had paint hiding something, totally wrong graphics or paint, crooked box, crooked fin, that I can see making a replacement board for. Espevcially At this point it's been ridden many times.
How's the builder supposed to fix the blems and resale after it's been used?
Unfortunately this ig/social media state we are in makes a board builder that much more under a microscope for even the smallest of fixable problem, that any kook can just blow up cause, really he doesn't like the board and how it works, not because of a couple repairable blems, again, IMO.

Stamps is selling boards not because of the few here on the erbb, but because he makes world class shapes, has a good business model, has a loyal following, and has talented pro's riding his equipment all over the world. Plus he's been shaping for many years, and to stay in this business and be successful you have to be able to persevere, create a working product, have some luck, and operate with sound business and have good people skills.

XTR has been around for a very long time, long time, so I'm sure he'll make it right. Javier should've been given the opportunity to fix the problem before it was ridden, not many times after, regardless of what anothe factory employees are seeing/saying. IMO
 
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sdsrfr

Legend (inyourownmind)
Jul 13, 2020
481
605
93
San Diego
no doubt. Im by all means not saying everyone gets a new board for the smallest of errors. im saying they need to be treated as though the customer is always right and make a demonstrated effort to correct the error. This includes training your team to not attempt a parking lot fix and catching a lot of the QC errors before they ship.

Javier offering merch or discounts for a goof is a perfect example of how to deal with this responsibly. Him selling “stock” board recoups costs and some of the margin back so not all is lost when the customer asks for a replacement.

worth mentioning none of this is aimed maliciously at XTR. They just happen to be the example in this story. can say the exact same thing about Casa’s plastic.
 
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ChaseTMP

Nep status
Apr 6, 2014
602
505
93
S. Redondo
...XTR has been around for a very long time, long time, so I'm sure he'll make it right. Javier should've been given the opportunity to fix the problem before it was ridden, not many times after, regardless of what anothe factory employees are seeing/saying. IMO
I didn't notice either the poorly finished rail/edge until I'd surfed the board a handful of times. I shouldn't be responsible for QC'ing the board. Should I have asked to throw it up on a rack and check the bottom contours with a straight edge, calipers to make sure the thickness is correct, a laser to see if the blank is twisted, get out a fin layout square?

I assumed the inherent shape/finishing was accurate and wanted to surf my new board. I was trying various fin sets/combinations/configurations to get the board to perform it's best and not looking for errors in the finished board. I eventually discovered something that I knew was not correct. As I've mentioned before, I've had boards that I've loved and had a copy made off the same file, glassed at the same factory and the new one didn't ride the same. Having the intended rail/edge may or not improve the board's performance under my feet, but there is such a fine line between ok, good and magic boards, that I'm hoping for an improvement with a board as it was intentionally designed. Can I surf this board and do pretty much everything I can on one of my favorites, yes, but there is no denying the rail is not finished correctly and if that's the potential culprit for me not liking the board then I'm entitled to receive an accurate version of the model I paid for.
 

Aruka

Phil Edwards status
Feb 23, 2010
6,953
3,608
113
PNW
By all means I hear you on the differences and especially w.rt. margins. I disagree tho that managing sales and customers is any different across any forms of sales.

satisfaction is from built up anticipation before receiving the goods. for the life of the product you will virtually never be as satisfied as that first impression let’s you be.

Tim Stamps is selling boards because we the erBB are hyping him. Maybe only a handful a year because of this place but he paid $0 directly to surfer for that advertisement. All he did was answer emails and charge a fair price and keep his customers happy and coming back.
No doubt Stamps runs a great shop. If I buckled one of the 20 or so customs I've gotten from him I would never dream of asking him for a replacement though. Tim wouldn't be in business if he had to honor that sort of return policy. I know that's not what you're advocating exactly but I'm just pushing back on the Costco comparison.

Just to clarify, none of my comments here are necessarily in regards to Chase's current situation. I know he's had a lot of customs and I don't get the impression that he's operating on anything but good faith. I guess I would just like to see that assumption of good faith extended to the dudes at XTR. At least until this is all sorted out (or not).
 

Retropete

Miki Dora status
Jan 20, 2006
4,316
468
83
Sunny Coast Qld Australia
Examples of The Erbb Shades of Customer Service

”hey shaper i’m having an issue with qc of my board”

1. Jon Pyzel: sorry to hear that. here’s my number, we’ll take care of it.

2. Gary McNeill: get fked mate!
Did you name and shame the shaper of the board you had a QC problem with? If not why are you white knighting constantly against G Mc on behalf of Goodfish?
The shipping company trashed the board Goodfish received.
Myself and 3 other friends have all had plenty of customs from Mcneill with zero QC issues and they have been great boards with exceptional durability.
 
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