Why are Alex Honnold and Tommy Caldwell so much smarter than Kelly Slater and Shane Dorian?

sponge

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Interesting, amusing thread as usual.

First thought I had when I read the title was... Joe Rogan. Joe interviewed at least three of the four athletes. Wondered if @Pyhtagorous (is that a purposeful misspelling of Pythagoras?) was basing the "intelligence" on those interviews. Of course, single interviews may not be representative of their brightness.

Dialog also went to autism. Honnold is on the spectrum, as is skater Rodney Mullen (brilliant guy btw) and Clay Marzo (probably less socially functional). Maybe something to do with savant physical skills.

If the intent was comparing rock climbers to surfers as far as being intelligent and enlightened, as mentioned any group of people run the gamut.

As an alternate to Kelly and Shane, maybe bodyboarder Mike Stewart might be a more enlightened ambassador to waveriders. Just saying.
 

crustBrother

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This thread got me thinking. I know a lot of climbers and a lot of surfers. The smartest guy I know is a climber. I've never met a dumb climber. Other than a couple of people I met IRL through the erbb, none of the surfers I know are really all that intelligent. And I know a couple surfers who are dumb as a bag of hammers.

But the wisest and happiest guy I know is a surfer. And although there's no lack of foolishness in my surfing peers, the only one I can think of who is deeply and persistently unhappy no longer surfs.

I think I intelligence is overrated.

Ps, I'm not counting any of you erbb posters whom I've never met IRL in the above generalizations and don't have any reason to believe that those generalizations are anything more than anecdotal.
 

Autoprax

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I think I intelligence is overrated.
I think it's underrated.

America has a strong anti-intellectual streak.

Inteligence can be measured in a lot of ways.

We should all wish for gift of roaring working memories.

Not having one puts you at a disadvantage to those who do.

Having it allows you to grow your intelligence at a lower resource cost which biases you to grow it.

The pro surfer is like the model who doesn't have to develop her intelligence.
 
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bonzer5fin

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ash, i wonder why you put shane dorian in there. he's not really speaking out much these days. he's there killing boar, watching his kids, but ask most 15 year old kids in the water who he is and they may remember, but everyone knows slater. my 80 year old mom knows who slater is. dorian isn't even the guy at most big wave spots any more. kemper, kai, and nathan are the three i think of for giant waves, or those euro nazare strapped in snowboarders who ride whatever that thing is.
 

SurfFuerteventura

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So many different levels of intelligence it's dumb-founding. See what I did there?

Emotional, Physical, Mental, Psychological, Spiritual, Educational, Intellectual, etc, etc, etc....

Book smarts are so not everything, they are something, but mos definitely not everything.

:computer::shrug:;)
 
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ash, i wonder why you put shane dorian in there. he's not really speaking out much these days. he's there killing boar, watching his kids, but ask most 15 year old kids in the water who he is and they may remember, but everyone knows slater. my 80 year old mom knows who slater is. dorian isn't even the guy at most big wave spots any more. kemper, kai, and nathan are the three i think of for giant waves, or those euro nazare strapped in snowboarders who ride whatever that thing is.
Same age range and approximate mantle as Caldwell. Have you heard him on social media raging against transsexuals lately? simply cannot imagine Honnold or Caldwell sounding remotely so reactionary or unnuanced.
 
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casa_mugrienta

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This thread got me thinking. I know a lot of climbers and a lot of surfers. The smartest guy I know is a climber. I've never met a dumb climber. Other than a couple of people I met IRL through the erbb, none of the surfers I know are really all that intelligent. And I know a couple surfers who are dumb as a bag of hammers.

But the wisest and happiest guy I know is a surfer. And although there's no lack of foolishness in my surfing peers, the only one I can think of who is deeply and persistently unhappy no longer surfs.

I think I intelligence is overrated.

Ps, I'm not counting any of you erbb posters whom I've never met IRL in the above generalizations and don't have any reason to believe that those generalizations are anything more than anecdotal.
The accessibility issue selects for intelligence.

Climbing = need money, need transportation, need location. There is a safety component here too that the climber and partner are responsible for. Need lots of free time to dedicate oneself for improvement.

Surfing = hop in the water and surf.

Surfing has always been open to a broad range of people, and climbing has not.

The intelligence factor reflects this.
 

Sharkbiscuit

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The accessibility issue selects for intelligence.

Climbing = need money, need transportation, need location. There is a safety component here too that the climber and partner are responsible for. Need lots of free time to dedicate oneself for improvement.

Surfing = hop in the water and surf.

Surfing has always been open to a broad range of people, and climbing has not.

The intelligence factor reflects this.
There's a coastal real estate argument to be made for surfing as well as a Spicoli one.
 
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Autoprax

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I think some people who would have normally been apolitical are susceptible to radicalization through social media on the smart phone.

If they made a little money and they are are past 40 their bias swings to the right.

They were empty vessels and now they are filled with right wing propaganda.

I've seen this in friends.

My one formally apolitical friend was raging about Nancy Pelosi last year. I said, "In the 50 years I have known you, you have never once mentioned Nancy Pelosi. And now she is the devil?"

He's also storing food for the coming collapses of society.

He's constantly on his smart phone.

Both surfers would have benefited from a BA in a humanities degree.

But booking learnin' aint no fun

There's a coastal real estate argument to be made for surfing as well as a Spicoli one.

The sport of kings.
 
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Northern_Shores

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ash, i wonder why you put shane dorian in there. he's not really speaking out much these days. he's there killing boar, watching his kids, but ask most 15 year old kids in the water who he is and they may remember, but everyone knows slater. my 80 year old mom knows who slater is. dorian isn't even the guy at most big wave spots any more. kemper, kai, and nathan are the three i think of for giant waves, or those euro nazare strapped in snowboarders who ride whatever that thing is.
Thank you for your input.

1653576033445.png
 

crustBrother

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The accessibility issue selects for intelligence.
There's also the danger. And the gear to address the danger. Using it correctly is sort of an engineering problem once you get off the boulder problems and bolt ladders. That could be a bit of an intelligence gate.

1653578550234.png

Meh. Someone else already nailed it. You'll find all types in either sport.

I miss the climbing high. I'll never forget how I felt after the climbs where I pushed myself beyond what I thought possible. If there was a drug that provided that level of clarity, focus, and serenity I'd be mainlining that sh!t.

But surfing is better.

:)
 
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bonzer5fin

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Same age range and approximate mantle as Caldwell. Have you heard him on social media raging against transsexuals lately? simply cannot imagine Honnold or Caldwell sounding remotely so reactionary or unnuanced.
i see your angle now. it's odd that dorain, raised in hawaii, would so anti trans. in the short years i lived there, the mahu were known and accepted, even in the high schools. but as has been mentioned, some folks start leaning to the right after a certain age and income. weird phenomena.
 
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Autoprax

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If this is what he said, I don't think it's that bad.

I think it's okay to think transgenders who were born men shouldn't compete against women.

That is just someone's opinion.

If that gets you framed as transphobic, I think that hurts the cause, which should be to show tolerance for those who are different.

And it's okay to disagree with SD's opinion.

I been reading up on the transgender issue.

That is almost divisive as abortion.

I wouldn't give either a second thought. But it's driving politics hard right now.

What makes those guys stupid is posting online.

Yeah, I'm doing that but I stupid too.

 
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Oct 16, 2002
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If this is what he said, I don't think it's that bad.
In and of itself it certainly isn't. And there is a whole other thread dedicated to parsing that very topic. But the point here is that that particular comment came on a thread addressing abortion. Clearly Dorian is somewhat entangled in the sciolistic tendrils of Alt Right Orthrodoxy. Now imagine Honnold or Caldwell reacting to an abortion discussion that way? Right? They clearly operate in dimensions inaccessible to Dorian.
 
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Peter1

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Culturally far smarter, far more book read, more enlightened and nuanced in their thinking, and light years more articulate.
The pleasures of climbing are far more cerebral than those of surfing. To climb means repeated failures, often in bad weather, with extreme discomfort if not pain. Whereas surfing -- worst case, you're at the beach hanging out. I've done both, and climbers are to a person much more introspective, well-read and generally more thoughtful. That doesn't mean there aren't any philosopher-surfers, but the literature of climbing is deep and varied, whereas good surf lit can be counted on the fingers of one hand.

IDK when Slater fell off the deep end but even in his interviews 20 years ago you could see that he was exceptionally enamored of his own thought process, let's put it that way...
 

SurfFuerteventura

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@Peter1 don't know about that, as I've never climbed anything higher than a 2-3 story building.

But I can inequivocably state that surfing can cause major pain and suffering. It broke my back, and I often contemplated committing suicide for the 4 years before I had it fixed. Suicidal pains are some serious pains yo!

:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::monkey::foreheadslap:
 

Peter1

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@Peter1 don't know about that, as I've never climbed anything higher than a 2-3 story building.

But I can inequivocably state that surfing can cause major pain and suffering. It broke my back, and I often contemplated committing suicide for the 4 years before I had it fixed. Suicidal pains are some serious pains yo!

:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::monkey::foreheadslap:
Ugh, sorry to hear that.

You come off a climb with throbbing muscles, bloody and torn hands. And that's in the best case.

I like 'em both, but they fill different needs. Climbing scares the sh!t outta me, whereas I surf for fun and relaxation. Granted, you could probably flip the two if you were so inclined.
 
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Autoprax

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In and of itself it certainly isn't. And there is a whole other thread dedicated to parsing that very topic. But the point here is that that particular comment came on a thread addressing abortion. Clearly Dorian is somewhat entangled in the sciolistic tendrils of Alt Right Orthrodoxy. Now imagine Honnold or Caldwell reacting to an abortion discussion that way? Right? They clearly operate in dimensions inaccessible to Dorian.
Yeah, I figured this out in the night during my usual 3 hours of fitful insominiatic wakefulness.

I wouldn't frame his non sequitur as transphobic as much as it is just the dumb musings of a dumb surfer.

But that was actually your original point.

I get it.

Are we not sure that he doesn't post here?
 
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