REMINDER: THE ARENA PLATFORM, INC. has no obligation to monitor the Forums. However, THE ARENA PLATFORM, INC. reserves the right to review any materials submitted to or posted on the Forums, and remove, delete, redact or otherwise modify such materials, in its sole discretion and for any reason whatsoever, at any time and from time to time, without notice or further obligation to you. THE ARENA PLATFORM, INC. has no obligation to display or post any materials provided by you. THE ARENA PLATFORM, INC. reserves the right to disclose, at any time and from time to time, any information or materials that we deem necessary or appropriate to satisfy any applicable law, regulation, contract obligation, legal or dispute process or government request. Click on the following hyperlinks to further read the applicable Privacy Policy and Terms of Use.
Where to buy 45 deg S glass
- Thread starter SixtyGrit
- Start date
You sure you're not talking about Double Bias cloth which has its threads at 45* angles? That would be this:
I believe that by 45* S-Cloth you might be referring to standard S-cloth. They are simply orienting the fibers at 45* or other angles to the stringer rather than pulling the cloth strait from nose to tail in the traditional manner. Using wider cloth to achieve the desired effect. By changing the orientation of the cloth and using various layup schedules you can change the strength and flex characteristics. For example, on the deck side put down one layer of 4oz E cloth oriented with the stringer then a layer of S oriented 45* to the right of the stringer and another 45* to the left of the stringer so that you've got incredible strength under the rider's feet due to the three differently oriented pieces of cloth. Here are some sources for cloth at good prices.
www.fiberglasssupply.com
I believe that by 45* S-Cloth you might be referring to standard S-cloth. They are simply orienting the fibers at 45* or other angles to the stringer rather than pulling the cloth strait from nose to tail in the traditional manner. Using wider cloth to achieve the desired effect. By changing the orientation of the cloth and using various layup schedules you can change the strength and flex characteristics. For example, on the deck side put down one layer of 4oz E cloth oriented with the stringer then a layer of S oriented 45* to the right of the stringer and another 45* to the left of the stringer so that you've got incredible strength under the rider's feet due to the three differently oriented pieces of cloth. Here are some sources for cloth at good prices.
Woven Fiberglass Fabrics and Tapes
Catalog page containing fiberglass fabrics and tapes. Woven fiberglass products for use in the composites industries such as sporting goods, aerospace, transportation, and infrastructure.
www.fiberglasssupply.com
Fiberglass Cloth
Wholesale/retail sales of composite and fiberglass materials, including epoxy, adhesives, carbon fibers, urethane foam, urethane casting rubbers
www.uscomposites.com
I have boards from stretch and muzz bourton and they get standard glass in wide rolls and put it 45 degrees as opposed to straight when they do the layup.
I think stretch gets special orders of wide S glass made just for them.
Colan, shapers, or graphite master would have it in the event it’s made
I think stretch gets special orders of wide S glass made just for them.
Colan, shapers, or graphite master would have it in the event it’s made
Thanks guys
I didn't know about graphite master. re: normal S-glass unfortunately, I'd need a roll ≥50in wide to get a continuous 45deg weave for the length of the board, which graphite masters only stock in 6oz.
I looked up the 25" wide +45/-45 degree stuff listed on their catalog, and came up with something similar to what fiberglassflorida stocks:
www.viral-surf.com
...and it makes no mention of S-glass.
The stuff from fiberglassflorida looks to be super-loose weave, and it's E-glass. In principle, I bet it would work... 1708 biax is super common, and has this mat backing, obviously not for surfboard construction.
Just a long rabbit hole I went down.
I didn't know about graphite master. re: normal S-glass unfortunately, I'd need a roll ≥50in wide to get a continuous 45deg weave for the length of the board, which graphite masters only stock in 6oz.
I looked up the 25" wide +45/-45 degree stuff listed on their catalog, and came up with something similar to what fiberglassflorida stocks:
Biaxial fleXGlass BX 220 gr/m - 127cm width, BIAXIAL fiberglass cloth for lamination of a surfboard - VIRAL Surf for shapers
Biaxial fleXGlass BX 220 gr/m - 127cm width, BIAXIAL fiberglass cloth forsurfboards lamination.
www.viral-surf.com
The stuff from fiberglassflorida looks to be super-loose weave, and it's E-glass. In principle, I bet it would work... 1708 biax is super common, and has this mat backing, obviously not for surfboard construction.
Just a long rabbit hole I went down.
Just realized that biaxial fiberglass, by definition, is non-woven, so not what I'm looking for.
Does a direct-sized woven s-glass at 45-45 orientation (so there's no defined warp/weave beyond some nylon that may be needed for the weaving process) exist??? Anyone know?
Edit: I'll call a few suppliers next week.
Does a direct-sized woven s-glass at 45-45 orientation (so there's no defined warp/weave beyond some nylon that may be needed for the weaving process) exist??? Anyone know?
Edit: I'll call a few suppliers next week.
Pretty sure this doesn’t exist. Stretch buys this stuff and uses but probably has it custom made from a supplier.
I got in touch with Justin at Graphite Master. He filled me in on everything:
Biax S-glass will work, but it's not woven. 45-deg weave basically doesn't exist, and he doesn't think Stretch gets it like I say they do. He is pretty sure they use a special-order 70-inch wide roll, and turn it 45 degrees. He also filled me in on that biax is finished differently, "non-crimp fabric", less strong. However, most other industries uses glassing layups that have weave running in 4 axes, not two like most surfboards, and that it's significantly stronger (break-wise), and has better flex characteristics.
As we all know, surf industry doesn't like change in the way they do things, so here we are.
He sold me on the following layup:
Biax S-glass will work, but it's not woven. 45-deg weave basically doesn't exist, and he doesn't think Stretch gets it like I say they do. He is pretty sure they use a special-order 70-inch wide roll, and turn it 45 degrees. He also filled me in on that biax is finished differently, "non-crimp fabric", less strong. However, most other industries uses glassing layups that have weave running in 4 axes, not two like most surfboards, and that it's significantly stronger (break-wise), and has better flex characteristics.
As we all know, surf industry doesn't like change in the way they do things, so here we are.
He sold me on the following layup:
- Deck: 4oz S glass (normal orientation) over 4oz biax fabric
- Bottom: 4oz S glass
I'll be curious to hear what you think about it. I had a board that was 4x4x4 all S-glass stringered EPS/Epoxy and thought it was too stiff.
Felt much better on the next board with 4x4 E glass top and bottom with another 4oz os S-glass on top.
I also have a stringerless EPS/Epoxy board that has a quadaxial E glass layup on top with a total of 10oz on the deck and a single 4oz layer on the bottom. That feels really good too.
Felt much better on the next board with 4x4 E glass top and bottom with another 4oz os S-glass on top.
I also have a stringerless EPS/Epoxy board that has a quadaxial E glass layup on top with a total of 10oz on the deck and a single 4oz layer on the bottom. That feels really good too.
I've done entire lams at the opposing diagonals and I always lay deckpatches at a diagonal. The idea is to distribute the stresses in more directions besides just the 0*-180* axis for the warp.
Over on Sways one of the geeks was doing a thesis for his engineering degree so he tested the different layups. He concluded that the optimum layup was 3-layers. One at the north-south axis like normal, and 2 more at opposing 30* angles (NW-SE and NE-SW). In that way the warp was running in 3 directions and the weft was running in 3 directions.
You can get opposing 30* angles on a shortboard using 56" or 60" wide cloth easily and without a whole lot of waste - just flip the roll on the 2nd cut. It's harder to do on a longer length, but even if you use a more shallow angle (like opposing 20* instead of 30*) you're still orienting the warp in different directions and you're avoiding the "nesting" that occurs when multiple layers of cloth and settling in with each other.
If you want to try it, another alternative is to just do it on a deckpatch, where all the compression occurs. I lay some deckpatches on top of the main lamination, 2-layers at opposing 30* angles, just barely fill the weave, and then do a quick pass with a sanding block over it to knock down any bumps. That really holds the wax.
The key is to use lighter weight cloths and doing the tight lamination.
Over on Sways one of the geeks was doing a thesis for his engineering degree so he tested the different layups. He concluded that the optimum layup was 3-layers. One at the north-south axis like normal, and 2 more at opposing 30* angles (NW-SE and NE-SW). In that way the warp was running in 3 directions and the weft was running in 3 directions.
You can get opposing 30* angles on a shortboard using 56" or 60" wide cloth easily and without a whole lot of waste - just flip the roll on the 2nd cut. It's harder to do on a longer length, but even if you use a more shallow angle (like opposing 20* instead of 30*) you're still orienting the warp in different directions and you're avoiding the "nesting" that occurs when multiple layers of cloth and settling in with each other.
If you want to try it, another alternative is to just do it on a deckpatch, where all the compression occurs. I lay some deckpatches on top of the main lamination, 2-layers at opposing 30* angles, just barely fill the weave, and then do a quick pass with a sanding block over it to knock down any bumps. That really holds the wax.
The key is to use lighter weight cloths and doing the tight lamination.
This is sick. If I knew what I know now, my engineering education would look a lot different.
Do you have a link????