What's "The Big Guy's" cut on this?

Mike_Jones

Tom Curren status
Mar 5, 2009
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They will only get away with poking the bear for so long before things escalate out of control.

I guess that would depend on who is standing on whose land and poking whom. The right of self defense is God-given.
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sussle

Rabbitt Bartholomew status
Oct 11, 2009
8,390
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The red line is boots on the ground. When the U.S. commits American lives to a limited war I withdraw my support. Period.
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so your period starts after you withdraw your support? that explains a lot, actually.
 

Autoprax

Duke status
Jan 24, 2011
68,230
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Vagina Point
So you think we should have gotten involved in Europe's war before Pearl Harbor? :roflmao:

Man I love how the lefties have turned into the kind of hawk that would make a turn-of-the-century Bush Neocon blush!
I don't get the lefty hawk frame.

You think, fawning, freezing, or flight, will be safer than a fight response in response to Putin aggression.

It might be.

But it might not.

Thinking it might not doesn't make one a hawk.

It's just a difference of opinion.
 

GromsDad

Duke status
Jan 21, 2014
54,146
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West of the Atlantic. East of the ICW.
Here is an exercise for all of you leftist chicken hawks. List for us the following regarding our involvement in Ukraine:

Top three Benefits of US involvement in Ukraine:
1.__________________________________
2.__________________________________
3.__________________________________

Top three risks of US involvement in Ukraine:
1.__________________________________
2.__________________________________
3.__________________________________
There are zero benefits
Takes Biden's failed domestic agenda and his scandals off of the news. That could be said to be a benefit.
 

Ifallalot

Duke status
Dec 17, 2008
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I don't get the lefty hawk frame.

You think, fawning, freezing, or flight, will be safer than a fight response in response to Putin aggression.

It might be.

But it might not.

Thinking it might not doesn't make one a hawk.

It's just a difference of opinion.
Putin’s aggression is not against us

indifference is the correct reaction
 
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Autoprax

Duke status
Jan 24, 2011
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Vagina Point
Basically, you think if you leave Putin alone, he won't be a problem.

That is where we disagree.

You could be right but I don't think so.

One time a student threatened to kick my ass after class in the hallway. He had been harassing me all semester.

In my shirt and tie, I threw my brief case on the ground and said "Ok, kick my ass, fucker. Let's go."

He made the threat assuming I wouldn't escalate because I would have gotten fired.

He backed down and never came back to class.

Sometimes with a bully you got to say fuck it.
 

Ifallalot

Duke status
Dec 17, 2008
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Basically, you think if you leave Putin alone, he won't be a problem.

That is where we disagree.

You could be right but I don't think so.

One time a student threatened to kick my ass after class in the hallway. He had been harassing me all semester.

In my shirt and tie, I threw my brief case on the ground and said "Ok, kick my ass, fucker."

He made the threat assuming I wouldn't escalate because I would have gotten fired.

He backed down and never came back to class.

Sometimes with a bully you got to say fook it.
No. Until Putin attacks us, it is not our problem.

Please take a cursory glance at WWI to see the consequences from blindly following alliances. Please take a cursory glance at US’s failures with preventative action since WWII
 

VonMeister

Duke status
Apr 26, 2013
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JOE BIDENS RAPE FINGER
I don't imagine those 30 tanks are going to see combat anytime soon. The Abrams isn't just a tank. It's a fairly complex component of a layered offensive system....which a Bradley is part of and on the way but there are many components that will not be there, like aviation. The there's the difficulty of maintaining a turbine powered vehicle vs a Diesel engine (the Leopard). I suspect this was done for the pussy German government in order for them to send and authorize Leopards..which will probably killing a lot of Russians come spring.
 
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VonMeister

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Apr 26, 2013
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JOE BIDENS RAPE FINGER
War needs forward observers. I think the people reaping the financial benefits of wars should be at the front to properly see how their money is being made. Maybe only encase one foot in concrete so they can pivot while they observe. :beer:
Ukraine has a really developed special operations force which is highly skilled in observation, probes and raids. They've also done wonders with DJI style drones. They are short on the hard aviation...like the OH58 which is able to send targeting information directly to indirect fire groups as well and armor and infantry.
 

VonMeister

Duke status
Apr 26, 2013
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JOE BIDENS RAPE FINGER
So what is to stop Putin from taking over the world using the threat of nuclear escalation?
He can't. I think there are some real doubts about the capability of Russia to launch and target ICBM's...so they are left with more tactical nukes which aren't very useful if your goal is to occupy the land you are at war over.

The US has the capability to hit every single land and most sea based Russian nuke assets in 15 minutes. We also have a fighting chance to target and destroy missiles that come our way. That's not to say a couple can't sneak through.... but the goal of a nuclear arsenal isn't to fight to the death or go on a suicide mission with the goal of hurting your enemy while committing suicide...it's to deter. Russia has lost the deterrent but it's been good policy to play along with them the past 20 years. If Russia were to use Nukes on the battlefield the Biden admin already said they would target and destroy the Russian Black Sea fleet. That makes Russia incapable of defending itself on the Atlantic coast....something Russians fear.
 

Autoprax

Duke status
Jan 24, 2011
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Vagina Point
He can't. I think there are some real doubts about the capability of Russia to launch and target ICBM's...so they are left with more tactical nukes which aren't very useful if your goal is to occupy the land you are at war over.

The US has the capability to hit every single land and most sea based Russian nuke assets in 15 minutes. We also have a fighting chance to target and destroy missiles that come our way. That's not to say a couple can't sneak through.... but the goal of a nuclear arsenal isn't to fight to the death or go on a suicide mission with the goal of hurting your enemy while committing suicide...it's to deter. Russia has lost the deterrent but it's been good policy to play along with them the past 20 years. If Russia were to use Nukes on the battlefield the Biden admin already said they would target and destroy the Russian Black Sea fleet. That makes Russia incapable of defending itself on the Atlantic coast....something Russians fear.
Yes, it's a hollow threat.

Russia is great at those.

Therefore, the people who are scared of Russian escalation, and use that as an excuse not to provide weapons, are wrong.

I don't get fear of escalation against someone who has already escalated.

The aid is 8% of the military budget.

It's great deal.

--liberal warmonger out!
 

VonMeister

Duke status
Apr 26, 2013
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JOE BIDENS RAPE FINGER
Yes, it's a hollow threat.

Russia is great at those.

Therefore, the people who are scared of Russian escalation, and use that as an excuse not to provide weapons, are wrong.

I don't get fear of escalation against someone who has already escalated.

The aid is 8% of the military budget.

It's great deal.

--liberal warmonger out!
we’ve replaced “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” with “if my opponent is for it, no matter the cause or how righteous it is, I must be against it”.

It’s interesting how in such a short period of time how the Democrat and Republican parties have traded places on quite a few issues. Neither side will admit it but it’s true. The easy conclusion is that most people agree on most things but politicians and some aspects of the media would rather drive a wedge than move an issue into the “finished” pile.
 

Duffy LaCoronilla

Duke status
Apr 27, 2016
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I don't imagine those 30 tanks are going to see combat anytime soon. The Abrams isn't just a tank. It's a fairly complex component of a layered offensive system....which a Bradley is part of and on the way but there are many components that will not be there, like aviation. The there's the difficulty of maintaining a turbine powered vehicle vs a Diesel engine (the Leopard). I suspect this was done for the pussy German government in order for them to send and authorize Leopards..which will probably killing a lot of Russians come spring.
3 years minimum to get them on the battlefield.
 

Autoprax

Duke status
Jan 24, 2011
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Vagina Point
I think the left will call out the excesses of the left the way the right is incapable of doing.

I'll do one.

I'm a lefty and I am against forcing 3 grade teachers to teach about gayness.

The kids need to learn how to read.

This is just LBGTQ advocates getting in positions of power. and pushing an agenda.

The passed the in 2014 and it was supposed to kick in when Covid hit.