Universal Basic Income

Sharkbiscuit

Tom Curren status
Aug 6, 2003
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Not when their pay increases that rate of inflation.
?????????????????

If their pay is keeping pace with inflation, or driving the inflation then by definition, they aren't losing out to inflation.

The situation in question screws over risk-averse investors and people with savings in their mattresses/savings accounts.

When the minimum wage doesn't go up, but inflation does, the minimum wage worker has lost in that scenario. When the increases in the minimum wage are the primary driver of inflation, the minimum wage worker is keeping up with inflation.
 

Mr Doof

Duke status
Jan 23, 2002
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San Francisco, CA
You'd raise the rent even if your costs don't go up?
Supply and demand.

If suddenly everyone has an extra $1k then there are a whole lot more people who can afford the one available unit at the current price.

So up goes the price.

Do you really not understand this concept?
If you want to hang your hat on the supply and demand model for the way you decide to charge rents, that is your right.

Does this means you raised the rent every time the US Treasury sent out the CV-19 relief checks?
 

Duffy LaCoronilla

Duke status
Apr 27, 2016
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If you want to hang your hat on the supply and demand model for the way you decide to charge rents, that is your right.

Does this means you raised the rent every time the US Treasury sent out the CV-19 relief checks?
My rent did go up considerably this last year but It wasn’t specifically tied to a one time check of $600. That makes no economic sense.

The rent when up because we were overwhelmed by interest form the work at home crowd.

Mostly New Yorkers. They amazed at what they got for (50% above market value) their money.
 

Mr Doof

Duke status
Jan 23, 2002
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San Francisco, CA
My rent did go up considerably this last year but It wasn’t specifically tied to a one time check of $600. That makes no economic sense.

The rent when up because we were overwhelmed by interest form the work at home crowd.

Mostly New Yorkers. They amazed at what they got for (50% above market value) their money.
Is that amazed as in "Wow, we got a deal that is totally beneficial to our pocketbook," way?

Or is that amazed as in a "Wow, they weren't joking how much housing costs in coastal California...its as bad as the decent parts on the Eastern Seaboard," way.

And to be certain, when you say "my rent" you mean the rent you were charging the New Yorkers?
 
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Duffy LaCoronilla

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Apr 27, 2016
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Is that amazed as in "Wow, we got a deal that is totally beneficial to our pocketbook," way?

Or is that amazed as in a "Wow, they weren't joking how much housing costs in coastal California...its as bad as the decent parts on the Eastern Seaboard," way.

And to be certain, when you say "my rent" you mean the rent you were charging the New Yorkers?
Yes, what I charged whoever it was that rented the place (not all from New York). I don’t pay rent. I pay a mortgage, insurance, utilities, property and income taxes, etc.....

And yes, the New Yorkers thought they were getting an amazing deal.

NYC rents make SB rents look really cheap.

PS: we had interest from people who thought the price was too high and tried to negotiate it down and we simply explained to them that we had multiple people already willing to pay what we were asking.

Supply and demand.

Btw, the lady that’s in there now is a repeat snow bird so she gets a greatly reduced price because we like her.
 
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hammies

Phil Edwards status
Apr 8, 2006
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Wages don't always reflect your absolute value to a company, they also reflect how easily you could be replaced, and wages reflect supply and demand.

If company X makes widgets, the shipping and receiving clerk is just as vital to the company as the mechanical engineer who does finite element analysis on precision machined titanium parts. Both are necessary for the company to make money - no shipping, no revenue! But the clerk is easily replaced by a quick call to a temp agency, whereas it's tough to find a good ME that's an Algor whiz.
 
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hammies

Phil Edwards status
Apr 8, 2006
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Companies paying low wages are basically kicking the can down the road for the taxpayers to pick up the tab for low pay workers who depend on public assistance.

The more I think about UBI, the more I like it.

Rather than forcing an massive and short fuse increase in the minimum wage (that would likely hurt small businesses the most), can do UBI on a federal level. The government already has charts for “locality pay” to adjust for cost of living in most cities.

Might even be able to sell it to the small government minded folks. Design it as a gradual replacement for public assistance programs and the associated overhead of staffing and administering them.
:shaka:
If you combine a phased in minimum wage hike with a tax system that treats capital gains as ordinary income and does away with other things that benefit rich folks like loss carryovers, the playing field would be levelled a bit.
 

Surfdog

Duke status
Apr 22, 2001
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Oceanside,CA
?????????????????

If their pay is keeping pace with inflation, or driving the inflation then by definition, they aren't losing out to inflation.

The situation in question screws over risk-averse investors and people with savings in their mattresses/savings accounts.

When the minimum wage doesn't go up, but inflation does, the minimum wage worker has lost in that scenario. When the increases in the minimum wage are the primary driver of inflation, the minimum wage worker is keeping up with inflation.
THIS is part of the reason we ended up with serious double digit % inflation in the 70's.

Once you double the minimum wage nationally in near one fell swoop (even over a couple/few years), all the people making just under $15 a hour now (say $10-14 an hr) are going to want raises WELL ABOVE $15 an hour to not be considered equal with entry level, low skilled positions.

It spirals upward from there for most everything. Services and products increase in much, much larger percentages than we've seen the last 40 years. Most younger than 45 don't remember/know the inflation craziness of the 70's.

It's like some ancient fairy tale now, that never really happened.
 
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Sharkbiscuit

Tom Curren status
Aug 6, 2003
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THIS is part of the reason we ended up with serious double digit % inflation in the 70's.

Once you double the minimum wage nationally in near one fell swoop (even over a couple/few years), all the people making just under $15 a hour now (say $10-14 an hr) are going to want raises WELL ABOVE $15 an hour to not be considered equal with entry level, low skilled positions.

It spirals upward from there for most everything. Services and products increase in much, much larger percentages than we've seen the last 40 years. Most younger than 45 don't remember/know the inflation craziness of the 70's.

It's like some ancient fairy tale now, that never really happened.
Yeah, and for the people at the bottom of the economic ladder, it's much better.

The 70s "hardships" were a joke. A house cost the median annual income. You could pay for college with a summer job. It's laughable.
 

ElOgro

Duke status
Dec 3, 2010
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Yeah, and for the people at the bottom of the economic ladder, it's much better.

The 70s "hardships" were a joke. A house cost the median annual income. You could pay for college with a summer job. It's laughable.
I think he lived in a different world. You could by a 4bdr house a block from 204 on a construction laborers pay. Pay it off in three years. Cheaper in Oceanside. Loads of work too, although working from home back then was done with a triple beam balance.
 

Sharkbiscuit

Tom Curren status
Aug 6, 2003
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Jacksonville Beach
I think he lived in a different world. You could by a 4bdr house a block from 204 on a construction laborers pay. Pay it off in three years. Cheaper in Oceanside. Loads of work too, although working from home back then was done with a triple beam balance.
Gas lines looked like no fun, that's for sure. But focusing on UBI for poorer people, I don't think people living to paycheck to paycheck care about the effect of inflation on savings; if they have a choice between treading water with high inflation or sinking with the Fed happy, I can guess what they'll go for. A good idea in the macro sense for the whole country? No idea. Sounds counter-intuitive to me but that doesn't make it wrong by a looooong shot.

I miss 2005's crowds. I can't even imagine the 70s. Sub 60WT + cool NW winds helping
 

enframed

Phil Edwards status
Apr 11, 2006
7,535
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Del Boca Vista, Phase III
I daresay there isn't any income bracket that pays taxes that doesn't complain about taxation.

I think my point remains - when costs increase it is generally the consumers who end up paying more, not the shareholders or the owners.
I don't complain about taxation. I know it's necessary for a civil society. social services, fire dept, Roads, &c, even cops. My complaints are how the money is spent.

Rent Control is a good answer to rents not going up "just cuz they can."
 

test_article

Kelly Slater status
Sep 25, 2009
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Body of Christ, Texas
What inflation? The US is $27T in the red and it seems as if interest rates are more sensitive to Fed asset purchases or sales than anyone had any idea would be the case. Hey, keep jamming more into the repository and just let those assets expire to the benefit of the Fed. They deserve a payday too.

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Pig Benis

Legend (inyourownmind)
Oct 16, 2002
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Rent Control is a good answer to rents not going up "just cuz they can."
As an income property owner, if rent control was set too low I would boot my tenants, spruce up the places a bit and put them up for sale. Look for other places to make money. The prices for anything outside of Los Angeles are going up significantly. Artificially low rents, maintenance, repair, property taxes, income taxes, it ceases to add up. At some point the numbers make no sense. Maybe if they gave you a tax break on property and income taxes generated by your property, it would make sense. But they want the opposite. I recently spent 35 grand on plumbing on one duplex. Might be time to gut it, turn it into a single family residence and sell it for 1.7 million.

Probably start buying, "improving" and flipping stuff into the expanding gentrification. When everything in CA costs 2 million dollars, will only millionaires live here? Just print more money and hand it out I suppose. That should end well.