Universal Basic Income

Sharkbiscuit

Tom Curren status
Aug 6, 2003
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Duffy threw out an arbitrary number that again arbitrarily doubled based on a couples situation. That’s about as dishonest and vague as one can get.

on top of that it’s a heavily regulated market where one can get in a lot of trouble for arbitrarily raising rents or doing so out of malice.
Basically nobody is going to raise rent by UBI amount overnight in the absence of some other serious issues. There has been some inflation over the past 10 years or however long I've been paying the same rent, and I signed a 7 month lease, so it's not like there hasn't been ample opportunity to raise it, especially considering what housing was going for when I moved in, and what it is now.

But MBP I think you would be surprised. Yes, you can get in a lot of trouble. If your tenant has the cash to get a new place, replace all their belongings, get an attorney, sue you, etc. then sure, you can get in a lot of trouble. You know what the cops are going to say when Duffy changes the locks? They'll tell you that sucks and take Duffy to court and come back with a judge's signature on an order that says ram this door in so you can get your sh!t. They aren't going to do jack squat to help your day to day life, for months and months, prior to that.

The amusing thing lost in this is that the bottom of the economic spectrum was already losing to inflation. So if the main driver of inflation becomes UBI or minimum wage, they'll be coming out way, way ahead of where they are now.
 

Sharkbiscuit

Tom Curren status
Aug 6, 2003
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Who the hell are those two?

Don't tell me more good has come out of Yreka than Stockton.
MMA fighters.

Nate Diaz beat Connor McGregor back when Connor was serious about fighting, and that fight was a fckng full scrap. He also used 2Pac as his walkout music in one of those fights which was pretty boss.

He kind of comes off as a dum dum in interviews but as someone only very peripherally interested in MMA fighting, the Diaz brothers are entertaining and aren't clones like some of them seem to be.
 
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GDaddy

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Jan 17, 2006
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I think UBI putting people "way,way ahead" is only true to the extent these handouts (which are the ultimate expression of the feminized participation award) are localized and do not get extended equally across the entire supply chain. If Californians' get the bonus but most of the rest of the country doesn't then the economic leverage the Calif residents have over the other elements of the supply put them ahead. But when everyone gets the same then that leverage evaporates. It isn't just the Californian labor that gets more expensive - they all do.

When the labor costs increase for everyone who touches every element that goes into that Big Mac then the cost of that Big Mac has to increase on the commensurate level, and at a rate that's far higher than when those increases are limited to just the Californian workers who touch it, and not to everyone else located outside of Calif who are also involved.
 
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Kento

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Jan 11, 2002
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MMA fighters.

Nate Diaz beat Connor McGregor back when Connor was serious about fighting, and that fight was a fckng full scrap. He also used 2Pac as his walkout music in one of those fights which was pretty boss.

He kind of comes off as a dum dum in interviews but as someone only very peripherally interested in MMA fighting, the Diaz brothers are entertaining and aren't clones like some of them seem to be.
OK.

I thought they might be members of some boy band.
 

hammies

Phil Edwards status
Apr 8, 2006
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So let's say San Diego takes Stockton's lead and gives everyone below the poverty line $500/month.
That's 14% of the population (a lower percentage than most big cities), or about 200,000 people.
They would be giving out $1.2B a year.
The entire city budget is currently $4B/year.
 

Kento

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So let's say San Diego takes Stockton's lead and gives everyone below the poverty line $500/month.
That's 14% of the population (a lower percentage than most big cities), or about 200,000 people.
They would be giving out $1.2B a year.
The entire city budget is currently $4B/year.
The fact 14% of the population is living below the poverty line is shameful to begin with especially given the number of people living extremely large (Bezos, Waltons, etc).

Don't know if you'll get to the $6K/year but a leveling of the playing field is way past due.
 
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Duffy LaCoronilla

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Apr 27, 2016
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You'd raise the rent even if your costs don't go up?
Supply and demand.

If suddenly everyone has an extra $1k then there are a whole lot more people who can afford the one available unit at the current price.

So up goes the price.

Do you really not understand this concept?
 

Duffy LaCoronilla

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Duffy threw out an arbitrary number that again arbitrarily doubled based on a couples situation. That’s about as dishonest and vague as one can get.

on top of that it’s a heavily regulated market where one can get in a lot of trouble for arbitrarily raising rents or doing so out of malice.
I’m using Andrew Yangs number which I believe was $1k a month.

Me raising the rent is a supply and demand calculation.

Malice, or any other emotion based reason has no relevance whatsoever.

And I can legally charge whatever the fuckk I want for my unit.
 

GDaddy

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Jan 17, 2006
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The poor aren't poor because the number is $12. They're poor because our society values their labor at but a fraction of that of the more highly skilled workers. The number is just an expression of that relationship. If a minimum wage worker is making $12 but the median rate for a registered nurse is $53 that means the nurse's work is valued 4.4x higher than the minimum wage worker. The nurse has that much economic leverage, which is what translates into the higher purchasing power.

The only way the minimum wage workers get ahead is if they and the other low paid workers get the raise but nobody else higher in the wage scale keeps up. If the minimum goes to $15 and the nurse's median remains at $53 then their leverage decreases to 3.53x instead of 4.4x. Meaning, the nurse and other workers who are more highly valued have to lose in order for the minimum wage worker to win. The nurse gots to pay because the minimum wage worker gots to be paid.

Meanwhile, it still won't be the rich who experience more pain WRT the increase in pricing for their goods and services because to at least some extent the impact on them is negligible. They DGAF if gas goes to $6/gallon - that's nothing to them. It will be the poor who experience that price increase and others more acutely. Disparate impact. Especially when considering that the necessities which are not discretionary on their part comprise the much higher percentage of their spending.
 
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Duffy LaCoronilla

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Apr 27, 2016
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Basically nobody is going to raise rent by UBI amount overnight in the absence of some other serious issues. There has been some inflation over the past 10 years or however long I've been paying the same rent, and I signed a 7 month lease, so it's not like there hasn't been ample opportunity to raise it, especially considering what housing was going for when I moved in, and what it is now.

But MBP I think you would be surprised. Yes, you can get in a lot of trouble. If your tenant has the cash to get a new place, replace all their belongings, get an attorney, sue you, etc. then sure, you can get in a lot of trouble. You know what the cops are going to say when Duffy changes the locks? They'll tell you that sucks and take Duffy to court and come back with a judge's signature on an order that says ram this door in so you can get your sh!t. They aren't going to do jack squat to help your day to day life, for months and months, prior to that.

The amusing thing lost in this is that the bottom of the economic spectrum was already losing to inflation. So if the main driver of inflation becomes UBI or minimum wage, they'll be coming out way, way ahead of where they are now.
I rent my unit furnished month to month. Owner occupied duplex.

I could raise the rent starting the first day of new month to any price someone is willing to pay so while not likely overnight, unless ubi kicks in tomorrow.
 

Sharkbiscuit

Tom Curren status
Aug 6, 2003
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So let's say San Diego takes Stockton's lead and gives everyone below the poverty line $500/month.
That's 14% of the population (a lower percentage than most big cities), or about 200,000 people.
They would be giving out $1.2B a year.
The entire city budget is currently $4B/year.
Stockton didn't give money to everyone below the poverty line, they randomly selected some people who live in neighborhoods where the average income is lower than Stockton's median of $46k/year.

So someone making 90th percentile income living in a neighborhood with an average income below $46k/year would have been eligible. I don't think the purpose was to help the worst off, it was to see what happens when you hand money out.

The poor aren't poor because the number is $12. They're poor because our society values their labor at but a fraction of that of the more highly skilled workers. The number is just an expression of that relationship. If a minimum wage worker is making $12 but the median rate for a registered nurse is $53 that means the nurse's work is valued 4.4x higher than the minimum wage worker. The nurse has that much economic leverage, which is what translates into the higher purchasing power.

The only way the minimum wage workers get ahead is if they and the other low paid workers get the raise but nobody else higher in the wage scale keeps up. If the minimum goes to $15 and the nurse's median remains at $53 then their leverage decreases to 3.53x instead of 4.4x. Meaning, the nurse and other workers who are more highly valued have to lose in order for the minimum wage worker to win. The nurse gots to pay because the minimum wage worker gots to be paid.
The poor are getting poorer because their earnings aren't keeping pace with inflation. It has jack sh!t to do with the nurse being $53 or 4.4x and everything to do with the people on the bottom becoming more and more worse off.

If their pay is indexed to inflation, they stop losing. Period.
 

Phi1

Miki Dora status
May 21, 2002
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Hell Cajon, Ca
Companies paying low wages are basically kicking the can down the road for the taxpayers to pick up the tab for low pay workers who depend on public assistance.

The more I think about UBI, the more I like it.

Rather than forcing an massive and short fuse increase in the minimum wage (that would likely hurt small businesses the most), can do UBI on a federal level. The government already has charts for “locality pay” to adjust for cost of living in most cities.

Might even be able to sell it to the small government minded folks. Design it as a gradual replacement for public assistance programs and the associated overhead of staffing and administering them.
:shaka:
 
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Northern_Shores

Michael Peterson status
Mar 30, 2009
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I'm not supporting universal basic income (i think), but it has it's positives.
Poor people already get money/support anyway. Also, the effects of poverty might be costlier than the money spent on universal basic income. Crime, health, sh!t apples doesn't fall far from the sh!t tree etc.
 
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GDaddy

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Stockton didn't give money to everyone below the poverty line, they randomly selected some people who live in neighborhoods where the average income is lower than Stockton's median of $46k/year.

So someone making 90th percentile income living in a neighborhood with an average income below $46k/year would have been eligible. I don't think the purpose was to help the worst off, it was to see what happens when you hand money out.



The poor are getting poorer because their earnings aren't keeping pace with inflation. It has jack sh!t to do with the nurse being $53 or 4.4x and everything to do with the people on the bottom becoming more and more worse off.

If their pay is indexed to inflation, they stop losing. Period.
Not when their pay increases that rate of inflation.